Fireworks

[compwiz1202]

Heck, the cops don't even enforce

And this is the part that pisses me off. Some people are just idiots you can never reason with, but why aren't the laws being enforced???? Then here in PA everyone defends them because they are legal. But breaking a noise ordinance IS NOT LEGAL!!!!

 

[yaxomoxay]

Oh I did. Have done for several years.I even brought it up with one of our council members when we were both working together on a project. His response was that I shouldn’t hold my breath expecting change...

Keep doing that. It's possible that there isn't enough political capital behind it; after all, by tomorrow most people will have forgotten about it so it will go from the "priority list" to the "may think about it later list" in no time.
Personally I think that it should be prosecuted with heavy fines. I love fireworks but they are dangerous if not supervised by experts.

 

[compwiz1202]

Yes, call the cops is a valid response. They might not come out, and they might be responding to other calls, but each call ends up in stats which are then used for evaluations on enforcement. I also highly recommend to email the Mayor, your City Council person, and if you have one your City Manager. It might feel like a drop in the ocean, but it does make a difference.

But why even have a law if is isn't enforced??? And even if the fireworks are legal, there are still noise ordinances. And another issue I read about is they stop when cops come and just start when they leave. Which means they definitely know what they are doing is wrong.

 

[yaxomoxay]

And this is the part that pisses me off. Some people are just idiots you can never reason with, but why aren't the laws being enforced???? Then here in PA everyone defends them because they are legal. But breaking a noise ordinance IS NOT LEGAL!!!!

In the current political climate (plus Covid-19) cops will not expose themselves to risks for minor violations. Fire department is probably also very busy on July 4th weekend. In other words, it's the perfect recipe for chaos.

 

[TiggrToo]

Keep doing that. It's possible that there isn't enough political capital behind it; after all, by tomorrow most people will have forgotten about it so it will go from the "priority list" to the "may think about it later list" in no time.
Personally I think that it should be prosecuted with heavy fines. I love fireworks but they are dangerous if not supervised by experts.

I will. The Ohio legislature meanwhile is looking to legalize consumer fireworks. They say that they plan a 4% tax to pay for law enforcement of their usage:

a) I don’t believe that will be used for such a purpose and will instead end up in a general fund
b) Won’t be paid by a anyone in SW Ohio who’ll continue to buy their explosives from neighboring Indiana.

So, we’ve got that going for us I suppose...

 

[yaxomoxay]

But why even have a law if is isn't enforced???

There are many laws in the books that aren't enforced. The why would really depend on several factors, from political climate, to actual capacity, to actual ability to prosecute someone, to jail capacity, and how much the court system is overwhelmed.

 

[Bballrob]

Abs that’s the myth of “America, the caring” all summed up in one self-righteous post.

Pretty much the response I expected from you.

If anyone in this thread is “all about me”, that would be YOU!!

Again, why hide behind the babies, the elderly, the veterans, and the animals. This isn’t about them. This is about YOU!!

Have you EVER exceeded the posted speed limit while driving? EVER?? And why haven’t you just turned yourself in for putting the lives of others at risk by doing so?

 

[TiggrToo]

In the current political climate (plus Covid-19) cops will not expose themselves to risks for minor violations. Fire department is probably also very busy on July 4th weekend. In other words, it's the perfect recipe for chaos.

There was a guy who got himself killed locally when he lit a commercial grade mortar firework that took out half his face.

Have to wonder how many other explosions were also commercial given that our windows rattled on more than one occasion Saturday night.

 

[yaxomoxay]

Pretty much the response I expected from you.

If anyone in this thread is “all about me”, that would be YOU!!

Again, why hide behind the babies, the elderly, the veterans, and the animals. This isn’t about them. This is about YOU!!

Have you EVER exceeded the posted speed limit while driving? EVER?? And why haven’t you just turned yourself in for putting the lives of others at risk by doing so?

The fact is that - vets with PTSD or not - fireworks in untrained hands are a fire hazard.

 

[compwiz1202]

Well obviously that's the owners fault. In fact I'm unsure why I'm complaining. Seems to me that everyone negatively affected by fireworks need to understand that others do enjoy them, and their "right" to detonate multiple miniature explosives in the neighborhood overrides other people's rights for peace and quiet.

Wonder how they'd feel if I left my truck outside their house in a few weeks time with the windows open, and my 150W stereo blasting out Metallica at midnight. I'd imagine they might be slightly miffed.

And what's funny is these are the kinds of solutions people will give are to just do something annoying back to them. Then what about the people who aren't doing fireworks but are annoyed also now being annoyed by your counter???

 

[yaxomoxay]

There was a guy who got himself killed locally when he lit a commercial grade mortar firework that took out half his face.

 

[Bballrob]

The fact is that - vets with PTSDS or not - fireworks in untrained hands are a fire hazard.

The same could be said for birthday candles on a cake for anyone over the age of 20.

 

[yaxomoxay]

The same could be said for birthday candles on a cake for anyone over the age of 20.

Oh please, you know very well what I mean and you know very well the difference between a BBQ gone wrong and lighting up gunpowder.

 

[TiggrToo]

Pretty much the response I expected from you.

If anyone in this thread is “all about me”, that would be YOU!!

Again, why hide behind the babies, the elderly, the veterans, and the animals. This isn’t about them. This is about YOU!!

Have you EVER exceeded the posted speed limit while driving? EVER?? And why haven’t you just turned yourself in for putting the lives of others at risk by doing so?

This is about all people who suffer. Yes I suffer. I speak for all

And quit trying to turn this into a speeding vs fireworks issue. That’s deflection.

It’s fascinating that you feel your personal desire for loud explosions overrides other peoples rights to have a peaceful night.

As I said, you’ll eventually understand this as you get older. Wait until you, or a loved one is affected then you’ll probably change your tune.

 

[Bballrob]

This is about all people who suffer. Yes I suffer. I speak for all

And quit trying to turn this into a speeding vs fireworks issue. That’s deflection.

It’s fascinating that you feel your personal desire for loud explosions overrides other peoples rights to have a peaceful night.

As I said, you’ll eventually understand this as you get older. Wait until you, or a loved one is affected then you’ll probably change your tune.

You apparently know nothing about my desire for loud explosions, nothing about my age, and nothing about my loved ones who have been affected by fireworks.

This isn’t about deflection at all. This is about you and your apparent vendetta against fireworks.

If you’re really concerned about “peaceful nights”, why aren’t you speaking out against the black lives matter groups, who sit there and yell “NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE”?

 

[TiggrToo]

Oh please, you know very well what I mean and you know very well the difference between a BBQ gone wrong and lighting up gunpowder.

So far I’ve noticed the following logical fallacies in @Bballrob ’s posts:

Overall: Bandwagon & Appeal to authority
I’m self centered: Enemy narrative, Ad-hominem & Tu Quoque
Speeding:Straw man
Birthday cake: Reductio ab Absurdum

And I’ve barely started really checking...
[automerge]1594049179[/automerge]

If you’re really concerned about “peaceful nights”, why aren’t you speaking out against the black lives matter groups, who sit there and yell “NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE”?

And let’s add Doublethink to that list of logical fallacies.

 

[Bballrob]

So far I’ve noticed the following logical fallacies in @Bballrob ’s posts:

Overall: Bandwagon & Appeal to authority
I’m self centered: Enemy narrative, Ad-hominem & Tu Quoque
Speeding:Straw man
Birthday cake: Reductio ab Absurdum

And I’ve barely started really checking...
[automerge]1594049179[/automerge]


And let’s add Doublethink to that list of logical fallacies.

And so far I’ve noticed @TiggrToo doesn’t really want peace. She just wants to ban fireworks.

 

[TiggrToo]

And so far I’ve noticed @TiggrToo doesn’t really want peace. She just wants to ban fireworks.

Actually, you’re wrong. Quite wrong.

I’d be Ok with say a 7 to 10pm window on July 4th.

Anything found outside that - $10k fine and confiscation of all fireworks.

That way we can plan for a specific tight time window.

And: no fireworks of any sort on the road or sidewalks. Period.

 

[compwiz1202]

In the current political climate (plus Covid-19) cops will not expose themselves to risks for minor violations. Fire department is probably also very busy on July 4th weekend. In other words, it's the perfect recipe for chaos.

I always wonder what would happen then if someone went though the chain of asking them several times and then calling police several times with no response, and then going vigilante. Would they try to enforce that? The person would have a reasonable defense that they tried the proper channels which failed them.

 

[TiggrToo]

I always wonder what would happen then if someone went though the chain of asking them several times and then calling police, and the going vigilante. Would they try to enforce that? The person would have a reasonable defense that they tried the proper channel which failed them.

I tried. Neighbors threw a firework at me when once I tried to stop them using fireworks on the road (a cul-de-sac).

Police took my statement several days later but told me they’d take no action as there was no witness.

 

[compwiz1202]

So far I’ve noticed the following logical fallacies in @Bballrob ’s posts:

Overall: Bandwagon & Appeal to authority
I’m self centered: Enemy narrative, Ad-hominem & Tu Quoque
Speeding:Straw man
Birthday cake: Reductio ab Absurdum

And I’ve barely started really checking...
[automerge]1594049179[/automerge]


And let’s add Doublethink to that list of logical fallacies.

The main issue with speeding is that with the lack of enforcement, it mostly is more dangerous trying to follow the speed limit than the flow. Sadly I don't know if I will get to see full automation of cars before I die.

 

[yaxomoxay]

I always wonder what would happen then if someone went though the chain of asking them several times and then calling police several times with no response, and then going vigilante. Would they try to enforce that? The person would have a reasonable defense that they tried the proper channels which failed them.

Well, unless you're in immediate danger you can't enforce any law unless you're a sworn officer. Going vigilante is very rarely defensible; if you want to go through the "proper channels" defense, then get enough signatures for a referendum. If you can't get enough signatures, then the citizens have spoken through their silence. If you get enough signatures, then the citizens will have an opportunity to speak loudly.

 

[Plutonius]

That the season started earlier notwithstanding, I'd like to understand why people seem to not care a jot when it comes to fireworks?

Tonight I'm sitting in a Warzone.

Neighbors all around me are releasing all manner of fireworks.

And every single last one is illegal.

Ohio still has laws on the books stating that all bar the most benign fireworks are illegal, although there's talk of getting rid of such a restriction.

What I want to know is when did we become so self-centered as a collective to allow this?

Fireworks are terrible for a large cross section of the population; babies, pets, the elderly, veterans suffering from PTSD, people of a nervous disposition, those with weak hearts. The list goes on. Not to mention folk who HAVE to sleep because they've got work tomorrow.

Yet every year, America the caring, lets out a huge **** you to all those people.

Why?

The very first year we'd moved into our current house they're was a knock on the door at 10pm on that 4th. Someone had the foresight to tell us that a bush adjacent to the house was now on fire due to a stray firework. Luckily we were able to extinguish it, however I dread to imagine what would have happened if we hadn't been home since, above the hedge, were wooden beams.

I suffer from a condition that creates stress from loud noises. I'm in the basement now trying (failing) to avoid the huge explosions that will be going on until past midnight.

America - since when did you become so self centered as to stick the middle finger up at the country's most vulnerable?

So I ask the people here who participated in this tonight, did any of you even begin to think about what you're doing, or do you see this a part of your right of free speech?

Honestly, I have many more issues with people playing loud music outside and cars / motorcycles without adequate mufflers than a few days of fireworks.

For those that are upset over the fireworks, I'm sure that there are many things that each of you also do that annoy other people.

 

[TiggrToo]

If you can't get enough signatures, then the citizens have spoken through their silence.

To quote Emperor Commudus, “Vox populi sux” 🙃

 

[C DM]

For those that are upset over the fireworks, I'm sure that there are many things that

Don't think most are doing anything that would be even similar to waking and keeping people up in the middle of the night with loud and powerful explosions.
[automerge]1594052348[/automerge]

I tried. Neighbors threw a firework at me when once I tried to stop them using fireworks on the road (a cul-de-sac).

Police took my statement several days later but told me they’d take no action as there was no witness.

Now that's liberty and freedom in action.