My pipe dream is that they will have the Docker and Parallels teams come on stage and ease some of these concerns for everybody.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
First Arm-Based Macs to Be 13-Inch MacBook Pro and Redesigned iMac, Launches Coming in Late 2020 or Early 2021
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
My pipe dream is that they will have the Docker and Parallels teams come on stage and ease some of these concerns for everybody.
I'm actually really excited about this and I think the 14 MBP could be a great vehicle for this. I am absolutely stunned with the performance they were able to get out of the ipad pros both processor and graphically so if they are able to translate that to a laptop in this form factor with significantly better battery life that would be close to a perfect machine.
I'd agree the Windows thing could be an issue but I don't think Apple and Microsoft are moving in different directions here and Microsoft has been looking into ARM since Surface RT. I get that it failed but from all accounts they have full blown Windows running on ARM so it isn't like they backed off and they aren't going to put money into something like that unless they see a future in it. I think it's much more likely that both Microsoft and Apple move more to ARM than they are moving apart. I also feel that ARM probably fits what Microsoft is doing with Surface Pro, Studio and get X Box all on the same platform.
I'd agree the Windows thing could be an issue but I don't think Apple and Microsoft are moving in different directions here and Microsoft has been looking into ARM since Surface RT. I get that it failed but from all accounts they have full blown Windows running on ARM so it isn't like they backed off and they aren't going to put money into something like that unless they see a future in it. I think it's much more likely that both Microsoft and Apple move more to ARM than they are moving apart. I also feel that ARM probably fits what Microsoft is doing with Surface Pro, Studio and get X Box all on the same platform.
Last edited:
I hope so. With the kind of programming I do I need a lot of CPU for compiling but have no use for the mandatory dGPU on the recent 15”/16”. It just adds heat and makes one fiddle with that graphics card switching app.
Agreed. I’d love to see a non-dGPU option back, and the Xe graphics make that conceivable again for the first time in a while.
Logic will be compatible. Its an Apple app and the devs, many left over from the eMagic days have alway been very quick to support os and hardware changes.
The situation with your 3rd party apps, plugins, and audio hardware drivers is where things could get rocky. But larger developers should get them ported over eventually.
ARM Mac Mini Please!
Also Apple did a very smart thing by making arguably great legacy products in the form of the Macbook Pro and Mac Pro for anyone who's reliant on a particular software suite. These workflows last years and by the time they go to upgrade their hardware, software updates or alternatives will be available.
A good case in point is when I joined a new office back in 2011, the Graphic Design team were still using PPC G5s. They were happy in their workflow and when they updated to Mac Pros later that year Adobe already had Intel compatible versions of CS out.
Also Apple did a very smart thing by making arguably great legacy products in the form of the Macbook Pro and Mac Pro for anyone who's reliant on a particular software suite. These workflows last years and by the time they go to upgrade their hardware, software updates or alternatives will be available.
A good case in point is when I joined a new office back in 2011, the Graphic Design team were still using PPC G5s. They were happy in their workflow and when they updated to Mac Pros later that year Adobe already had Intel compatible versions of CS out.
As an user who uses both VMs and Bootcamp Win10, the move to a Macbook with just ARM will be the end of my relationship with Apple laptops 
I can see the benefits for a normal user who uses mostly Mac OSX but I'm not in that category
I can see the benefits for a normal user who uses mostly Mac OSX but I'm not in that category
Wow based on that math, Mac sales must have really fallen through the floor then.
iPad Pros are the future anyway.
As an user who uses both VMs and Bootcamp Win10, the move to a Macbook with just ARM will be the end of my relationship with Apple laptops
I’m also very concerned ... I don’t bootcamp, but I rely heavely on VMs (VirtualBox, Paralles) and docker, and just plain *nix command line tools. Also, must of my time when not code/tech work, im doing also a lot of Powerpoint and Excel. This gets me very concerned ... my end-of-2013 rBMP is almost dead and im thinking my only option is to sell my iPad and MBP and buy a Surface Book 3 ....
I’ll be very sad to let go of OSX 😭
If Apple could come out of the gate with a robust "low end" notebook on Axx ARM that functions as diligently as a high-end MacBook Pro, Apple would prove ARM is the true future path.
It would shut down almost all detractors and create a small boom in sales.
I'm looking forward to the shift. Intel has been a slow pony in the processor races. Apple has been fast tracking. Time to turn the old girl in for glue and cat food.
The first Mac I ever bought was the first Intel black MacBook. How beautiful that Mac design still is all these years later. So I guess it has been 14 years of Mac. Bought the original iPhone on day one. The iPod was my first Apple product. I bought a MacBook Pro 15” only to see the redesign happen to the unibody design in maybe 2008??? I would feel over the top excited if the new ARM MacBook Pro 14.1” had zero bezels, sported 100% increase over Intel CPU and 25,000% increase over Intel graphics.
I think Apple will knock it out if the park with the new A-Series SoCs, and the best part should be the graphics performance! I haven’t seen anyone discuss this yet. But just imagine what is possible thinking about the iPad Pro graphics and 120Hz display technology.
I was not expecting that, but I think it's a solid move if they can really push the power aspect of the new chips. That is ultimately what is going to get people to buy in or not.
I agree to a point. The big issue I have is we haven’t seen the performance yet. I fully expect Apple to quadruple the feel of Intel. Also think about battery life of a 5nm SoC with amazing graphics compared to Intel.
Now when thinking of desktops, or a Mac Pro, if the OS is designed for ARM, the Mac Pro could really be a beast and blow away Intel in most performance indicators. But, my original hope was for Apple to include both Intel and ARM for about three to five years for a nice transition period. This is where Apple could make everyone happy and prove ARM chips are better in the long run to even the pickiest buyers.That would feel like a dream Mac to me. Intel CPU, Apple ARM SoC for compute and graphics, and an Nvidia 2080ti for good measure! With the studio version of Nvidia as an upgrade. I would drop a lot of dough on that machine right there.
[automerge]1592827331[/automerge]
How about think of the increase in sales due to MacBooks that have 22+ hour battery life?
With ARM SoCs, Apple should crush battery life. Maybe a real world 24 hours even??? It’s going to be a lot. I cannot wait for that part of the cycle.
13 inch? What on Earth does a man need to do to get a 14 inch laptop around here?
Apple plans to introduce its Arm-based custom designed chips for Macs at WWDC, Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo said in a note to investors today, agreeing with an earlier report from Bloomberg.
Kuo says that the first Mac models to adopt Arm-based chips will be the 13.3-inch MacBook Pro and an iMac with a redesigned form factor, with Apple planning to launch the new models in the in fourth quarter of 2020 or early in 2021 at the earliest.Kuo says the Arm-based 13-inch MacBook Pro design will be similar to the current 13-inch MacBook Pro, with Apple planning to discontinue the Intel version. As for the iMac, it will feature an all-new form factor design and a 24-inch display.
Prior to the launch of the Arm-based iMac, Apple will refresh the existing Intel iMac in the third quarter of 2020, which is in line with rumors we've been hearing about an iMac refresh that could happen as soon as WWDC. There have been multiple rumors about Apple's work on a redesigned iMac, though most rumors have suggested the display will be 23 inches rather than 24 inches.
Starting in 2021, Kuo says that all new Mac models will be equipped with Apple processors, and that it will take 12 to 18 months for Apple to transition to an all-Arm lineup.
Kuo also says that an unspecified MacBook model with an "all-new form factor design" and an Arm-based chip will go into mass production in the second half of 2021, while a MacBook model with a mini-LED display will launch in the first half of 2021.
According to Kuo, Apple's custom designed chips, planned mini-LED displays, and scissor switch keyboard will "create competitive advantages for MacBook models in two years" with mini-LED technology significantly improving the user experience.
Article Link: First Arm-Based Macs to Be 13-Inch MacBook Pro and Redesigned iMac, Launches Coming in Late 2020 or Early 2021
Now if you'd excuse me, I am off sacrificing a chicken.
ARM Macs will be amazing. But without Boot Camp, I will have to buy an ARM Mac AND an Intel PC. Whereas now I can have both macOS and Windows on an Intel Mac. Not sure that's an improvement…
However, if Boot Camp remains possible with Windows 10 on ARM, and if Microsoft adds smooth 64-bit Intel emulation support to it, or even better, the Windows apps I use get ARM support… I will be very happy with it.
However, if Boot Camp remains possible with Windows 10 on ARM, and if Microsoft adds smooth 64-bit Intel emulation support to it, or even better, the Windows apps I use get ARM support… I will be very happy with it.
OR... or... you could keep your current Intel Mac and buy... nothing?
I haven't read this whole thread, however for me this makes perfect sense...
How on earth could Apple announce a 12in macbook or a macbook air that clearly outperforms current macbooks pro 13in?? That doesn’t make any sense…. Problem is that people can’t believe that A14X or whatever is called can have that performance. Guys this is a 5nm 12 cores machines with a laptop TDP, it’s not an iphone and not even and ipad. So if this is say 30-50% more powerful in final cut pro than the current 13in macbook pro, even pricing it at the same level as the pro would be a selling point….(let alone better battery life and LTE/5G) while calling it the macbook and it beating the pro would make no sense…. Apple will want to show their muscles from the beginning to show developers and people what their A chips are capable of and that everything is moving to them sooner than later…. contrary to the terrible approach Windows on ARM has taken starting with slow chips and emulation...
Having said that, even MS themselves waited 2 years and started with a pro, contrary to people believing that the surface go would go ARM first... But MS does not control the pc market like Apple controls macs... and cannot go all-in like apple... Emulation is the worst way to push developers to recompile... The best way is to make the recompiling easy, but developers should have no choice, you are either in or out, like the transition to 64 bits on both ipad and mac...
How on earth could Apple announce a 12in macbook or a macbook air that clearly outperforms current macbooks pro 13in?? That doesn’t make any sense…. Problem is that people can’t believe that A14X or whatever is called can have that performance. Guys this is a 5nm 12 cores machines with a laptop TDP, it’s not an iphone and not even and ipad. So if this is say 30-50% more powerful in final cut pro than the current 13in macbook pro, even pricing it at the same level as the pro would be a selling point….(let alone better battery life and LTE/5G) while calling it the macbook and it beating the pro would make no sense…. Apple will want to show their muscles from the beginning to show developers and people what their A chips are capable of and that everything is moving to them sooner than later…. contrary to the terrible approach Windows on ARM has taken starting with slow chips and emulation...
Having said that, even MS themselves waited 2 years and started with a pro, contrary to people believing that the surface go would go ARM first... But MS does not control the pc market like Apple controls macs... and cannot go all-in like apple... Emulation is the worst way to push developers to recompile... The best way is to make the recompiling easy, but developers should have no choice, you are either in or out, like the transition to 64 bits on both ipad and mac...
That's definitely my plan for the next few years. My current Mac is still very capable. I'll wait until the transition is over and everything is settled.
I'm mostly just curious about what they'll say today. And what will happen to Boot Camp users.
I'm using Windows 10 on ARM for some months now on a Pro X... works quite well. I found some interesting workarounds for apps missing an ARM build (e.g. using old Windows RT apps for 7zip). Still not very good as an tablet OS but for day to day usage it is more than ready.
How about resale value down the line -- say in like 3 years or 5? How would that be for the 2020 MBPs? That's all I care about since I always sell off my devices after acquiring new ones. I wouldn't want to buy a 2020 MBP now if the resale value plummets as soon as I take the 2020 MBP out the box.
Who in the fvkc are you to call my tech choices irrational and why do you think you have any idea what might have been great for me?
Stick to your own preferences, thanks.
Right now I am looking to buy a RAZR laptop and that is as close to a MBP with Windows 10 as we will get.
[automerge]1592836545[/automerge]
Yes and it doesn't install Steam for gaming so no thank you
Oh for the love of...
That’s right. All today’s latest Intel Macs will be completely useless in 18 months because developers will stop releasing Intel updates immediately and they’ll even send out secret updates that will Bork your currently installed OS and apps so that they stop working too. Right?
“Future proof” is a myth. Computers are ever changing devices. It doesn’t require an architecture change to make tech get old.
Take any point in time in recent years. When in any of that time was a MBA or MBP any more “future proof” than what will happen here?
As others have said in this thread, Apple and developers kept supporting PPC Macs for 5+ years after the change to Intel.
And without an architecture change, hardware still becomes obsolete and unsupported for OS and app updates Sooner or later.
At the same time, the Mac you bought 5 years ago still does what it did then, and more. The Mac you buy today will still do in 5 years what it does today and more.
This won’t be any different. What’s the problem?
[automerge]1592837467[/automerge]
That's not me
Sadly, as soon as they release the 16” ARM MBP, your then ~18 months old Intel one will immediately stop working and you’ll HAVE to get a new one. Apple really screwed you over on that one.
/s
[automerge]1592837934[/automerge]
I think maybe we don’t know even remotely let alone perfectly what you mean. Why on earth are developers going to “dump the entire platform”?
Last edited:
But but but... how can Apple possibly justify putting the “Pro” moniker on anything without a dedicated graphics card in 2020???!!?? Apple is doomed.
😉