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First Hands-On Impressions of 27-Inch Retina iMac: Sharp Image Quality, Great Viewing Angles
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You missed is point entirely. http://www.anandtech.com/show/8496/dell-previews-27inch-5k-ultrasharp-monitor-5120x2880
The more I see this, the more I'm stunned that this machine is only $2,499 when standalone IPS 4K displays sell for AT LEAST this much. Very impressive by Apple to hit that price point.
As soon as the price comes down to $1,999 and it's sitting in a case design that's different than what I currently own, my wallet...I mean ApplePay button...will be ready to go.
That's the big question and my main concern as well...Could there possibly be a redesign as quickly as next fall? I hope not...
That's what I was afraid. It's a bit ironic that my 2 27" Cinema Display's can't support retina although my Mac Pro can, and now it can't support its own companies 5K displays (inevitably due as they always follow Apple's iMac line).
Which means:
1. I sell my new Mac Pro, take a hit, and buy the model that supports 5K displays, along with 2 displays
2. Invest in 4K non-Apple displays (which may be a bad investment long term).
This really ticks me off. This is technically a 2014 Mac Pro, and Apple doesn't bother releasing a 4K display to support it?!
Wait, this is Thunderbolt 2.0. How can bandwidth be an issue when 2.0 is clocked faster? Shouldn't it still push out enough? How can the iMac have better support? WTF.
and void the warranty? not a good idea, considering every new product will have a certain risk of having issues. If I'm paying over $2500 for a new computer then I want that warranty, no matter how limited it might be.
Not sure what applies in the U.S. but in Sweden you always get 1 year production warranty, and I would say that it's not worth voiding the warranty.
My suggestion is that if you need the RAM upgrade **today** then get it via Apple, otherwise buy them 3rd party and upgrade the day after limited warranty runs out. But that's of course just me..
RAM is the only legal way to upgrade your iMac. And $600 is a lot of money for 32GB of RAM. You can buy a 1TB SSD with the money.
Hard Drive size laughable!
A 1TB HD - what is this 2008?
To ship a 1TB HD as standard in a machine of this spec in 2014 is absolutely shameful.
To charge £120 (approx $190) for us in the UK to ‘upgrade’ to a 2TB HD is absolutely indefensible. A 2TB hybrid drive retails for less than £80 in the UK.
As these are now none user upgradable parts it really leaves a sour taste that Apple should not make 2TB standard and then charge so much to upgrade IMO.
Apple's iMacs have simply become too expensive.
21" is just too small a screen size for the majority of people these days and the 27" model hasn't fallen in price in line with the cost of the displays.
Four years ago in 2010 when Apple first introduced the 27" iMac, a 27" high resolution display of any make would have cost around £700 - now they retail for less than half of that.
However according to Mactracker the 27" iMac from 2010 (with 4GB RAM & 1TB HD) cost $1499.
Until yesterday the current standard 27" iMac still only ships with 4GB RAM (now 8GB) and 1TB HD and costs $1799.
So despite the falling costs of the display, HDs and RAM, Apple have managed to put the price up by $300!!!
For them to bring out a high spec ultra HD model in 2014 and still only give it 8GB and a 1TB HD (the same as from a machine in 2010) is just taking the piss.
Shame on you Apple, shame on you!
A 1TB HD - what is this 2008?
To ship a 1TB HD as standard in a machine of this spec in 2014 is absolutely shameful.
To charge £120 (approx $190) for us in the UK to ‘upgrade’ to a 2TB HD is absolutely indefensible. A 2TB hybrid drive retails for less than £80 in the UK.
As these are now none user upgradable parts it really leaves a sour taste that Apple should not make 2TB standard and then charge so much to upgrade IMO.
Apple's iMacs have simply become too expensive.
21" is just too small a screen size for the majority of people these days and the 27" model hasn't fallen in price in line with the cost of the displays.
Four years ago in 2010 when Apple first introduced the 27" iMac, a 27" high resolution display of any make would have cost around £700 - now they retail for less than half of that.
However according to Mactracker the 27" iMac from 2010 (with 4GB RAM & 1TB HD) cost $1499.
Until yesterday the current standard 27" iMac still only ships with 4GB RAM (now 8GB) and 1TB HD and costs $1799.
So despite the falling costs of the display, HDs and RAM, Apple have managed to put the price up by $300!!!
For them to bring out a high spec ultra HD model in 2014 and still only give it 8GB and a 1TB HD (the same as from a machine in 2010) is just taking the piss.
Shame on you Apple, shame on you!
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I think it's very likely. Here's the iMac design timeline. We see a case redesign every 3 years or so and late-2015 will be 3 years since this current design has been in place. Granted, the face looks the same as the previous gen from late-2009, but the thinner design was in fact new along with the laminated display.
The last thing I want is to drop $2,499 on this only to see a smaller chin, thinner, and less expensive 5K iMac next fall with better graphics to handle all those pixels. That machine is the one I want and the one I'll get.
Certainly Apple wants to see every MacPro user with a big retina display on their desk. I'm pretty sure it's coming (and I'd love to see it in a 30"), but nowadays the Apple pro market is the last one to get the cool toys.
Thunderbolt only carries two types of data: PCIe and DisplayPort 1.2.
PCIe and DisplayPort are fed into the controller in the computer, get moshed together into a Thunderbolt signal, and then get separated out again by the controller in the peripheral.
Anything else (USB, Firewire, SATA...) is catered for by putting a standard PCIe-based USB/SATA/Firewire controller in the peripheral.
OR you can plug a DisplayPort cable into a thunderbolt socket, and the socket just downgrades itself to a plain on DisplayPort 1.2 port.
The problem is bandwidth:
Max bandwidth of Thunderbolt 2 is 20 Gbps.
Effective bandwidth of DisplayPort 1.2 17.28 Gbit/s
5120x2880 x 24 bits/pixel x 60 fps = 21 Gbps - and that's a simplistic calculation not allowing for any overheads, sound, docking ports etc. so the real figure will be more than that, and for a high-end monitor you'd probably want 32 bits/pixel anyway.
5k external over a single cable isn't happening until DisplayPort 1.3/Thunderbolt 3.
In the iMac, Apple are presumably either using 2x DP 1.2 connections direct to the GPU or something proprietary.
The forthcoming Dell 5k monitor is rumoured to use 2 x DisplayPort 1.2 connections.
NB: I don't think its been confirmed one way or the other that the Dell won't be supported on a nMP or a recent rMBP - but using two connections is obviously a bit fugly. Bear in mind that the TB display, with its docking facilities and built-in MagSafe is primarily a MacBook peripheral, and even if rMBPs could push 5k using both TB ports wouldn't be popular.
That's the same one I have. Thought I'd go nuts on this one and it's still holding up. Good to see this new 5k one exists but I doubt I'll need to upgrade for a couple more years still. (installed an SSD in the second/empty drive bay and it just flies!)
Thanks for the explanation, greatly informed me. I was unaware on a lot regarding the top bandwidth limits of Thunderbolt 2.0. Assuming Apple does offer a 5K display, I'd gather it'd be around a Thunderbolt 3.0 announcement and release alongside a new Mac Pro (?).
Could Apple release a 4K display in the interim? May not be business savvy though (?).
In addition to this possible bad news for Mac Pro owners, attempting to make a bootable 10.10 USB my external WD USB 3.0 drive just crapped out. Been a great week for me. *le sigh*
In two or three years time, someone will pay you excellent money for that "disposable" computer. And what is that nonsense about not being able to replace the battery on a MacBook Pro? You bring it to an Apple Store, and they have no problem whatsoever replacing your battery.
My point and shoot digital camera has this resolution. I can't see my still pictures in their their full resolution on my existing HD displays. In other words, you are thinking only of video, but, plenty of people will enjoy seeing 35mm film quality stills on this display.
Unfortunately true. I've never liked the iMac form factor for this reason. The GPU will seem limited two years from now. But, this time, I'm tempted.
Anybody know exactly which chips these are and how many PCI lanes they have?
Buy AppleCare. When it breaks, take it in for repairs.
Can you post a direct chip for chip comparison of what you are talking about?
I've used both Nvidia and ATI/AMD in laptops and desktops. The biggest reliability problem I've experienced was with the Nvidia 2007/2008 laptop GPU problems.
How do we know AMD hasn't learned their lesson like Nvidia?
Why isn't DP 1.3 available yet? The standard was approved a year ago. New designs should be using DP 1.3.
and void the warranty? not a good idea, considering every new product will have a certain risk of having issues. If I'm paying over $2500 for a new computer then I want that warranty, no matter how limited it might be.
Not sure what applies in the U.S. but in Sweden you always get 1 year production warranty, and I would say that it's not worth voiding the warranty.
My suggestion is that if you need the RAM upgrade **today** then get it via Apple, otherwise buy them 3rd party and upgrade the day after limited warranty runs out. But that's of course just me..
RAM in the iMac is user serviceable. The only thing that you lose obviously is that if your new replacement RAM doesn't work, Apple won't fix it, and if you manage to damage your computer while replacing or adding RAM, Apple won't fix it.
It seems to me that you are trying very hard to find negatives here. Take the environmental perspective: A 5120x2880 27" display has exactly the same environmental imp ace as a 2560x1440 27" display, whether it's carefully recycled or whether someone dumps it in the nearest river. No difference. On the other hand, if that iMac stops working, you can bet it will be repaired. Even replacing the complete motherboard would be a worthwhile repair. So this is an environmental positive.
What I can't quite see is how you think that iMac (as a computer) would become outdated anytime soon. It's a quad core 3.5 GHz processor if you go for the cheap model. That won't be outdated in eight years time. We don't expect any major jumps anywhere in the near future. Lifetime: My MacBook is eight years old and works just fine (except the screen is broken which is the opposite of what you claimed, but it works just fine with an external monitor). Now _that_ computer is outdated, because there were huge jumps from 2006 to 2014, but that isn't going to happen anymore.
21" Retina: Not anytime soon. 21" is for people who want to save money. For the same money, I'd rather have 27" non-retina than 21" retina. The 21" doesn't have the CPU power anyway.
Upgrades
So, it's just memory that's upgradeable? Would I not be able to upgrade the drive at a later date?
Alternatively, I may just put the 254GB SSD in and use an external thunderbolt drive instead. However, when working with 4K movies etc, would this be a poor idea? I do intend to improve my video editing skills in future.
Thanks
So, it's just memory that's upgradeable? Would I not be able to upgrade the drive at a later date?
Alternatively, I may just put the 254GB SSD in and use an external thunderbolt drive instead. However, when working with 4K movies etc, would this be a poor idea? I do intend to improve my video editing skills in future.
Thanks
In order to upgrade the RAM you need to open the casing, in all brand computers I have owned the warranty statements declare that opening the case voids warranty, even standard ATX towers have stickers on them clearly pointing to this. THe fact that Apple has isntructions on how to install mem-modules does not imply that user-servicing does not void the warranty, as far as I can say. But heck, I am not a lawyer so don't take legal advice from a strager online
I have to admit that I did not personally check this with Apple's latest products, but take a look at the this thread and you'll see that it's relatively easy to void the warranty if you are not 100% certain you are doing it right. I say it's unncessary risk. I upgraded all my computers the day after the warranty period ran out, no problems so far with upgrade but why risk it?
In order to upgrade the RAM you need to open the casing, in all brand computers I have owned the warranty statements declare that opening the case voids warranty, even standard ATX towers have stickers on them clearly pointing to this. THe fact that Apple has isntructions on how to install mem-modules does not imply that user-servicing does not void the warranty, as far as I can say. But heck, I am not a lawyer so don't take legal advice from a strager online
I have to admit that I did not personally check this with Apple's latest products, but take a look at the this thread and you'll see that it's relatively easy to void the warranty if you are not 100% certain you are doing it right. I say it's unncessary risk. I upgraded all my computers the day after the warranty period ran out, no problems so far with upgrade but why risk it?
It clearly states on this page: http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/imac-retina
The iMac has a small door on the back of the comnputer where you access the RAM. You don'y need to open the case. The memory upgrade is easy to do.
Just ordered one. My current Mac Pro is 6 years old, so it was time. Was wrestling between the new Mac Pro vs a maxed-out 27" 2013 iMac. The 4 GHz processor, graphics card, and Thunderbolt 2.0 ports tipped the scales for me.
I would rather have a higher quality system for hobbies and the personal things I enjoy than I would for work.
Shouldn't the emphasis on quality be in ones personal life instead of in our professional life? Seems like you have it backwards to me.
I would use the high res screen with photography and gaming. 4k content is the next step and I don't think it will be that far away.