Dell seems to think this is mostly a non-issue or they wouldn't be putting the displays in warrantied XPS laptops.
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First Real-World Photos and Video of New MacBook Pro Models Begin to Surface
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Anyone wondering what a screen should look like just look at the Huawei Matebook X Pro. Owned that laptop and loved it. It’s better than the XPS and different than the Thinkpad x1 Carbons so can’t really compare those two. It’s the design apple should have done here. They’re already the windows version of a Mac.
Warranty probably won’t cover “normal wear”, so Dell might categorize burn in that way.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Defense, defense, defense... most defenders are working overtime trying to bend other people's personal opinions to liking corporate decisions exactly as the corporation decided to serve it.
Do this, use some black paper to make an equivalent-sized notch for whatever TV screen you have now. Tape this homemade notch to your TV and see if you get to a point where you "won't even know it's there for the most part."
Conceptually, this should be easier to not notice because you likely sit farther from your TV screen then you do from a laptop screen. But see what happens. I sit about 10 feet from my TV screen. The other day, an ANT crawled onto the screen and it (literally) bugged me. There are people who will return a giant TV screen because 1 pixel won't switch on. Notch is a LOT bigger than 1 pixel.
But notch doesn't need defending. If it bugs potential buyers enough, they don't buy. For those who "love/like the notch/I'm indifferent/it's kind of growing on me," they buy. Much like with the TV concept, Apple people are long-term accustomed to notch-less MBpros. Now here are incredible new MBpros that also come with a notch. Naturally, those who can't just roll with anything Apple decides for them will feel various things about it. Some are naturally going to (up to) HATE it. That's OK. It's their opinion and their money.
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HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Wow, that IS a hot-looking laptop.
Camera in the keyboard is interesting. I wonder how that works in typical use. I'm going to guess some here will be assuming "video up the nose" but I bet it's not actually that or they wouldn't have gone with that option.
Example
...which- IMO- actually looks pretty good. User just looks down a bit... as if an Apple camera was in the bottom bezel instead of the upper bezel. I've had many an iPhone/iPad FaceTime conversation where the person at the other end was holding their phone/iPad down at about that angle instead of directly out in front of their face.
I'll guess some will gripe 720p vs. 1080 in this MBpro but I suspect a 1080p camera would fit the same way if Apple wanted it.
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HDMI is pretty universal these days like USB-A and people do presentations or use USB drives need those ports all the time. (Even Pro's)
Its not the "idea" that carrying them is a major imposition its LOSING THEM and being SOL when you lose it or forget it.
If the ports are built-in you can NEVER LOSE or FORGET them, its impossible. One less thing to worry/think about.
Not only those DELLs don't have a notch but they also come in OLED. ?♂️?♂️?♂️
www.digitaltrends.com
Dell XPS 15 OLED review: The best keeps getting better
The Dell XPS 15 is fast, beautiful, built right, and offers up a gorgeous OLED display. It's a dream machine for creative types and power users.
www.digitaltrends.com
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HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Building on this a bit, I just went through a shopping cycle where I was looking for the next Mac. For my needs, I'd definitely need a hub. Shopping for one is miserable. Reviews seem to always have some "doesn't work well/right with M1" in one way or another... especially when it comes to VIDEO connections.
With Apple building HDMI back in, I have high "just works" confidence that HDMI connections to pretty much anything at any client's/hotel/conference center setup are going to work. As soon as I have to hope for some other-branded dongle/hub to do the same, that confidence is NOT as high.
With Apple building HDMI back in, I have high "just works" confidence that HDMI connections to pretty much anything at any client's/hotel/conference center setup are going to work. As soon as I have to hope for some other-branded dongle/hub to do the same, that confidence is NOT as high.
Yeah, my OLED TV is on a lot more than my phone. iFanboys will justify anything... At least until their cult leader decides to use OLED panels. Apple only cares about margins.
It’s not mapped one-to-one with the screen. If it was, you would tap in the corner and pointer would tap in that area. If you tapped in the middle, the pointer would tap in that area. That makes precise movements difficult.
Instead, the trackpad a relative-motion input device. It moves the pointer relative to the pointers current location. the aspect ration is not really significant in that case. It could even be circular, but that would not fit well on the keyboard.
Requires less engineering and cheaper materials likely used. It’s a cheap design choice. Something the bean counters would do.
Screens make me OCD, even the touchless MacBook seems to collect finger prints and droplets like magnets…??
Same colour as chassis anodised aluminum keys, that should keep us both happy ?
THE ONION
****BREAKING NEWS****
Apple suggests New 2021 Macbook Pro owners to download Apple Fitness+ to reduce the laptops weight and "THICCCCCNESS"
After much negative feedback Apple has received since releasing their new 2021 Macbook Pro models. Many users have experienced a significant weight gain on their new 2021 Macbook Pro's since the Covid-19 lockdowns.
Apple has since released a press release to potentially help their customers and their Macbook Pro lose some added weight.
"Many of our customers here at Apple are experiencing weight gain during this Global Pandemic, So has our New 2021 Macbook Pro. We at Apple are putting in an effort to help fight both problems. We suggest Late 2021 Macbook Pro owners to download our Apple Fitness+ APP (free of charge) to potentially help the 2021 Macbook Pro reduce weight, and for our customers...results may vary.
Obesity is an ongoing global issue, we care deeply about our Macbook Pro's THICCCCNESS and are extremely concerned with their excess weight gain.
As for our customers, we really do appreciate your business and will do our very best to reduce the 2021 Macbook Pro's weight moving forward"
****BREAKING NEWS****
Apple suggests New 2021 Macbook Pro owners to download Apple Fitness+ to reduce the laptops weight and "THICCCCCNESS"
After much negative feedback Apple has received since releasing their new 2021 Macbook Pro models. Many users have experienced a significant weight gain on their new 2021 Macbook Pro's since the Covid-19 lockdowns.
Apple has since released a press release to potentially help their customers and their Macbook Pro lose some added weight.
"Many of our customers here at Apple are experiencing weight gain during this Global Pandemic, So has our New 2021 Macbook Pro. We at Apple are putting in an effort to help fight both problems. We suggest Late 2021 Macbook Pro owners to download our Apple Fitness+ APP (free of charge) to potentially help the 2021 Macbook Pro reduce weight, and for our customers...results may vary.
Obesity is an ongoing global issue, we care deeply about our Macbook Pro's THICCCCNESS and are extremely concerned with their excess weight gain.
As for our customers, we really do appreciate your business and will do our very best to reduce the 2021 Macbook Pro's weight moving forward"
No need to speculate since there's two years worth of reviews complaining about the angle of that keyboard cam...
"Since 2018, Huawei has decided to remove the built-in webcam from the chassis lid. We normally find it above the display, but that either compromises the look of the display, or you end up with a really bad and tiny camera. Some vendors remove it entirely, but Huawei has relocated it to the Function key row. It sits just below the key between F6 and F7, and which you click it, it springs up from its spot and points up at you.
This fulfils the tick on the spreadsheet of having a built-in camera. However, the camera isn’t great: the quality is still a standard 720p camera that you would find in the chassis lid on other laptops, except this one points right up at your chin. And up your nose. I don’t know about you, but having to have critical meetings while looking up at someone’s nose hair isn’t the greatest experience. Usually I recommend that if you are going to have a video call with a laptop web-cam embedded in the display, then put the laptop up on some books, so at least the camera is at eye-level rather than looking up. The Huawei solution does the reverse, and makes it a poor experience for all concerned. I would suggest looking at external cameras here." - https://www.anandtech.com/show/16976/huawei-matebook-x-pro-2021-review-a-sleek-and-vibrant-notebook
"At a time when everyone is hanging on Zoom calls for school, friends and business, laptop webcams have become more important than ever. Huawei, however, seems to be the one major manufacturer ignoring user feedback regarding its keyboard "nosecam" webcam." - https://www.notebookcheck.net/It-s-...-MateBook-and-MagicBook-laptops.529952.0.html
"Huawei MateBook 14 review: A sexy design ruined by the dreaded nose-cam"- https://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-matebook-14-review-966010/
Its not just reviewers. Here a reddit thread about it where everyone agrees the angle sucks but they love the thin bezel anyway.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I guess that puts me back on the train of wishing Apple would have put iPad Mini 6 bezels in the new MBpros because that Mini bezel fully fits a 1080p FaceTime camera in the bezel and certainly does NOT look "thick" or "fat" to me... especially when comparing it to the bezel on my existing MBpro.
I keep looking at the picture of these new MBpros and wondering how many millimeters of difference is there between notch-less Mini 6 and new MBp bezels. Subjectively, it just doesn't look like it would take much...
Of course, this could easily be an illusion based on distance from camera to devices. But I just keep imagining the difference is maybe up to about 5mm... though in that picture it looks more like maybe only 2mm.
So I keep thinking, why not shift the visible screen DOWN that 2mm-5mm to not have a notch, get the 1080p camera fully in the bezel just like they just did for the Mini 6? It looks like there is room at the bottom for the visible screen (including the "extra" to the left & right, PLUS what would be behind the notch) to shift down a few millimeters and still be fine. So how much would it actually take?
When these are in Apple Stores, I look forward to seeing this first hand. If it does turn out to be so little, the notch must be there for future FaceID stuff or something else that wouldn't- I presume- fit in a Mini 6-type bezel. Else, I can't get my head around why there is a notch in this spectacular device.
I keep looking at the picture of these new MBpros and wondering how many millimeters of difference is there between notch-less Mini 6 and new MBp bezels. Subjectively, it just doesn't look like it would take much...
Of course, this could easily be an illusion based on distance from camera to devices. But I just keep imagining the difference is maybe up to about 5mm... though in that picture it looks more like maybe only 2mm.
So I keep thinking, why not shift the visible screen DOWN that 2mm-5mm to not have a notch, get the 1080p camera fully in the bezel just like they just did for the Mini 6? It looks like there is room at the bottom for the visible screen (including the "extra" to the left & right, PLUS what would be behind the notch) to shift down a few millimeters and still be fine. So how much would it actually take?
When these are in Apple Stores, I look forward to seeing this first hand. If it does turn out to be so little, the notch must be there for future FaceID stuff or something else that wouldn't- I presume- fit in a Mini 6-type bezel. Else, I can't get my head around why there is a notch in this spectacular device.
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That mini bezel is thicker than what they did with MBpro also the MBpro screen would need to be as thick as iPad mini as well, that would be worst IMO
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Yes, Mini 6 bezel looks thicker... but how much thicker? In that albeit subjective view, it looks maybe 2mm thicker. Allowing for photographer-to-device position differences, I'm speculating up to maybe 5mm difference. Thus the idea of could they have shifted the new screen (with "extra") down that much to have 1080p FaceTime and no notch?
If they fit a 1080p FaceTime camera in both devices (possibly the SAME 1080p camera?), I don't think the MBp screen must be any thicker than it is. Just do that part the same way they did it. Mini is thicker because the whole computer, battery (and keyboard
) is in the screen (and the camera module on the other side). I don't think the bezel size has anything to do with it.
Mini 6 1080p camera looks CLOSER to the top of the screen vs the 1080p MBp camera looks in these Apple pictures... which implies that the MBp camera could have been positioned as close in this MBp, instead of shifted down a bit to presumably center it in the zone between top of bezel and bottom of notch. Clearly Apple CAN position the camera higher (because Mini shows they can).
Here's a closeup of MBp vs. Mini 6 relative camera positions...
Now again, there is some room for error here based on distance from MBp and Mini... but judging from the size of the metal rims, I'm thinking this can't be very far off.
So then one can ask, how tall is the notch? If- say- 6mm, look at the relative difference in bezel heights. Would anyone argue it's more than a third? So if notch is 6mm tall, then bezel difference is 2mm. If Notch is 9mm tall, bezel difference is 3mm. One can only speculate this so far. Can Notch be 12mm tall? 15mm? Else, if it is 6-9mm and these pictures are relatively to scale, a whole screen shift down of 2-3mm fits in the "extra" gained with notch, fits the 1080p FaceTime camera fully into the bezel (just like Mini 6) and eliminates the notch.
Is there at least 3mm at the bottom to absorb the shift? Again, looking at Apples own MBp pictures, it looks like there is MORE than that at the bottom.
If they fit a 1080p FaceTime camera in both devices (possibly the SAME 1080p camera?), I don't think the MBp screen must be any thicker than it is. Just do that part the same way they did it. Mini is thicker because the whole computer, battery (and keyboard
) is in the screen (and the camera module on the other side). I don't think the bezel size has anything to do with it.Mini 6 1080p camera looks CLOSER to the top of the screen vs the 1080p MBp camera looks in these Apple pictures... which implies that the MBp camera could have been positioned as close in this MBp, instead of shifted down a bit to presumably center it in the zone between top of bezel and bottom of notch. Clearly Apple CAN position the camera higher (because Mini shows they can).
Here's a closeup of MBp vs. Mini 6 relative camera positions...
Now again, there is some room for error here based on distance from MBp and Mini... but judging from the size of the metal rims, I'm thinking this can't be very far off.
So then one can ask, how tall is the notch? If- say- 6mm, look at the relative difference in bezel heights. Would anyone argue it's more than a third? So if notch is 6mm tall, then bezel difference is 2mm. If Notch is 9mm tall, bezel difference is 3mm. One can only speculate this so far. Can Notch be 12mm tall? 15mm? Else, if it is 6-9mm and these pictures are relatively to scale, a whole screen shift down of 2-3mm fits in the "extra" gained with notch, fits the 1080p FaceTime camera fully into the bezel (just like Mini 6) and eliminates the notch.
Is there at least 3mm at the bottom to absorb the shift? Again, looking at Apples own MBp pictures, it looks like there is MORE than that at the bottom.
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Agreed. I actually prefer the black keys with the shell matching key backing or backdrop. Made it looked more refined.
The new keyboard makes me think Apple maybe playing with light water/debris drainage that the HO EliteBook and ZBooks are famous for for so many years.
Something to inquire or consider. HP on the formerly mention laptop series has minimal liquid spill drainage in order to protect the cpu, ram and storage as wel as the motherboard. Now since the Apple laptops have shrunken the laptop logic board and it’s components have they done work to protect from liquid damage without sacrificing lack of harmful components or recycle ability? Hmmm
I think you're right about it being a change made primarily for the sake of looking different from the old model but I also think it's an intentional style tribute to the PowerBook G4 Ti, a laptop that looks very similar (in shape) to the new MacBook Pro. That keyboard looked like a black block in the machine rather than having too much contrast in between the keys:
In shape the TiBook looked a LOT more like the outgoing 2016-202 MBP even if the latter missed ports. Square design clean cut edges not sharp. The TiBook had ports at the back btw and only the ExpressCard on the side.
probably not, their liquid damage indicators (stickers) notoriously turn pink/red when there's decent humidity with no signs of liquid damage.
plus it hurts AppleCare sales/psychology (fear and high cost of repair)
FWIW - the last 8 apple products I purchased used/2nd hand all had AppleCare+ for them before I bought them.
Agree, it's horrendous. I've been so distratcted by the notch (get used to it, folks) that the keyboard's ugliness had passed me by. My 2014 MBP has never looked more beautiful.
The 2016-19 MBPS had their issues but they looked 1000 times better than these. Laptops for single men.
Even better question is no notch with super thin bezels and a crappy webcam sufficient for structural rigidly and webcam performance when you need it?!
You have da power to buy Dell laptop.Not only those DELLs don't have a notch but they also come in OLED. ?♂️?♂️?♂️
Dell XPS 15 OLED review: The best keeps getting better
The Dell XPS 15 is fast, beautiful, built right, and offers up a gorgeous OLED display. It's a dream machine for creative types and power users.