First review about sound... fan noise

[nathansz]

I've been on the verge of pulling the trigger on the Mac Mini M4 Pro for a few days now. The only thing holding me back is the lack of reports about fan noise. As I've been using the MBP M1 Pro for the last 3 years and I never heard the fans no matter what I do (music production) on the computer. I still remember my amazement when I first got this machine—the idea that a computer with such power could run in complete silence was unbelievable. Every moment of working on this MBP has been a joy, free from the stress-inducing fan noise I constantly hear on my Lenovo work PC.

If upgrading to the Mac Mini M4 Pro means reintroducing fan noise, it’s a deal-breaker. It would feel like going back to a 5400 RPM HDD after years of enjoying the speed of an SSD.

I'm glad I found this thread right in time but also very disappointed.. I was so exited to get this Mac Mini.

I'm waiting for https://www.youtube.com/@MarkEllisReviews final verdict on the Mac Mini M4 pro. He said that he will be testing the fans in his full review.

If you insist on absolutely silent computing than there is always going to be a point at which to have to sacrifice processing power to keep that silence

Your m1 MacBook Pro isn’t really all that powerful in the grand scheme of things. Either you need a more powerful computer, in which case there is the possibility of sometimes introducing a negligible amount of noise

Or you prefer silence, in which case just keep using what you are using

Having said that, I think the amount of noise the mini could possibly make is getting blown way out of proportion here

I really can’t imagine how it would be that big of a deal

 

[waloshin]

Again, you can ridicule people all you want but you are wrong here.

Studio is silent, M4 is silent, the problem is M4 Pro.

I tested both and even though I would need the M4 Pro I can get away with M4 for now which is most likely what I'll do.

The new design is fantastic but the Pro has noise issues under high load.

As some mentioned - once you get used to a silent computer you don't want to go back to a noisy one.

So please, don't laugh it off when there are other examples (from Apple) that actually have no sound and work great.

Don’t make me laugh you want a silent computer that never turns on its fans and thermal throttles in a “Pro” machine go right ahead and wait for Apple to send out a update that keeps the M4 Pro file ya but cuts the performance significantly…

 

[Gloor]

Huh? I guess you've never used Mac Studio.

Ok, if you don't take the discussion seriously then I guess we will just part ways. Thank you for contributing.

Don’t make me laugh you want a silent computer that never turns on its fans and thermal throttles in a “Pro” machine go right ahead why not just open your new Mini 4 Pro and cut the fan wire as you obviously don’t need a fan…

 

[nathansz]

Yeup.
The M4 Pro seems to be the problematic one.

problematically more powerful?

unless you are going to run benchmarks all day I don't understand the problem

 

[waloshin]

Huh? I guess you've never used Mac Studio.

Ok, if you don't take the discussion seriously then I guess we will just part ways. Thank you for contributing.

You want a powerful machine that is silent than go get a Mac Studio… there will be compromises the M4 Pro is significantly cheaper than a Studio…

 

[nathansz]

I don't care what a Windows desktop does or doesn't do. I'm buying a Mac and spending a lot of money on it. So excuse me if my expectations are high.

I love that apple is finally approaching the performance of a windows desktop, obviously that's going to need some cooling

if you want silence expect less performance

 

[nathansz]

Huh? I guess you've never used Mac Studio.

Ok, if you don't take the discussion seriously then I guess we will just part ways. Thank you for contributing.

the m4 pro is more powerful than any M2 Ultra in a Mac studio

I'd expect the m4 ultra to be even more so, it's going to require some active cooling too

 

[Gezellig]

If you insist on absolutely silent computing than there is always going to be a point at which to have to sacrifice processing power to keep that silence

Your m1 MacBook Pro isn’t really all that powerful in the grand scheme of things. Either you need a more powerful computer, in which case there is the possibility of sometimes introducing a negligible amount of noise

Or you prefer silence, in which case just keep using what you are using

Having said that, I think the amount of noise the mini could possibly make is getting blown way out of proportion here

I really can’t imagine how it would be that big of a deal

The M4 Pro Mini noise is probably not that bad. I mean, it’s gonna be bearable in small doses.

But as a counterpoint, I’d say that it’s not so much about the loudness than the annoyance.

Having work in many different studios, whenever working with air conditioning units or PCs or any other hum-noise inducing machines, you can get massive headaches at the end of the day. Work one hour with it, cut it off. You immediately get a sensation of relief.

So, as always, it really depends on one’s use case which is basically gonna be very different from one user to the next.

The fan noise here is probably more of an annoyance than anything. But if this is your main machine in your little space, it could very much be annoying to the point where it becomes unbearable.

Talking about experience, here.
Feel free to dismiss this post entirely. Doesn’t change the facts. The fan noise is bearable. It depends on who you ask. Simple as that, I’d say.

 

[waloshin]

Huh? I guess you've never used Mac Studio.

Ok, if you don't take the discussion seriously then I guess we will just part ways. Thank you for contributing.

Bye… I do not have to agree with you to be taken seriously. 😂

 

[nathansz]

The M4 Pro Mini noise is probably not that bad. I mean, it’s gonna be bearable in small doses.

But as a counterpoint, I’d say that it’s not so much about the loudness than the annoyance.

Having work in many different studios, whenever working with air conditioning units or PCs or any other hum-noise inducing machines, you can get massive headaches at the end of the day. Work one hour with it, cut it off. You immediately get a sensation of relief.

So, as always, it really depends on one’s use case which is basically gonna be very different from one user to the next.

The fan noise here is probably more of an annoyance than anything. But if this is your main machine in your little space, it could very much be annoying to the point where it becomes unbearable.

Talking about experience, here.
Feel free to dismiss this post entirely. Doesn’t change the facts. The fan noise is bearable. It depends on who you ask. Simple as that, I’d say.

your only going to hear it in small doses unless you are running benchmarks all day

 

[Confused-User]

Thank you very much for your impressions, Gloor. This is exactly what I was looking for. Just an individual opinion on the same stress scenario with the same settings on both machines. I hate those Youtube-Expert-"reviews” that don't address the actual effects of the enclosure-redesign, especially as the cooling solution has undergone a major change.

I am very spoiled with the BTO M2 (non-pro) because it's absolutely (!) quiet no matter what I do, so the M4 Pro I was considering as an upgrade seems to be a step down in terms of fan noise. And I absolutely hate fan noise. Well, this purchase would have been an “I want because I can” rather than an “I must because I need to” purchase anyway, so I'll consider keeping what I have or, if the upgrade itch gets too strong, get an BTO M4 (non-pro).

That was *not* a "same stress scenario". You, he, and many others seem confused about what's being measured.

Video games are an "infinite workload" test, unless they are configured to to frame rate limiting (and possibly other types of limiting). The test of the M4 vs. the M4 Pro that he used was not a constant workload test, which is what you want if you want to see how the two machines stack up when performing the same work task.

It is absolutely true that you could get the M4 Pro to be noisier in a real-world work scenario- it depends on what that scenario is. Transcoding a large file is a good example. The M4 Pro would get the job done a lot faster, but could be noisier during that time. On the other hand, doing audio engineering with Logic, you're gated more by the engineer's human speed. The machine will be part idle all the time - more idle if it's an M4 Pro. That's a constant work scenario, and you're unlikely to run into bad fan noise there.

The only way to know, for your workload, is to TEST THE DAMN MACHINE. Listening to youtube videos instead is just dumb.

It seems the consensus is the new Mini is hotter and louder. My M2 just became more amazing.

No, there is no consensus.

The M2 is great, and that hasn't changed. But the M4 is more advanced, and more efficient. We *still* don't have any good idea about which case/fan design is better. The only way to know that is to get an M2 Mini and an M4 mini, run workloads on each that draw the same about of power (as measured by a power meter), and test sound pressure. Nobody has done that.

Yeah, I definitely need the Pro, as I'm doing large projects in Logic Pro with lots of plugins and software instruments. Also, the processing power requirements tend to increase over time with newer plugins, so some extra headroom is necessary IMO when buying an expensive computer that needs to last at least 6-7 years.

I was about to order the unbinned M4 Pro version, but definitely on the fence now. Will still wait for a few more reviews, before making up my mind.

I've been using a hot and loud 2018 i7 Mac Mini since 2020, and the last thing I want to do is replace it with something that's going to be almost equally annoying.

This is just typical Apple. They flubbed the previous Mac Pro and MacBook Pro design (among others), and you would've thought they had learned by now...

What you definitely need is to reexamine your assumptions.

If your 2018 Mini can do the job AT ALL, then the M4 Pro is massively overkill for your project. The *M1* will handle it easily and silently. If you want more headroom for the future then by all means get the M4 or the M4 Pro, but both will be mostly idle.

 

[Confused-User]

You know, if you need M4 Pro power, and you don't like fan noise... get fan control software, and use it with your M4 Pro. You will limit performance a bit, but you can tune the volume to anything you like.

For everyone whining about how "maybe Apple blew it, I don't know, I'm on the fence, maybe I'll wait for the Studio"... you can have NEARLY TWO MONTHS to return it if you buy it now. So quit whining, buy it, and then report back here how the fan noise is for you.

 

[Gloor]

It was the same stress scenario. I even mentioned that capping it to match M4 yielded silent machine.

The issue isn't the power but the fact that maxed settings on M4 yields no sound but M4 Pro gets noisy.
I've tested the same game on M2 Pro and it was silent as well.

The debate (for me) wasn't that the Pro is worse machine. It was that its worse machine when it comes to noise under heavy load.
I get all the technicalities and I understand why but I feel that Apple could have tweaked the design more to behave the same way as M4 - ie. silent.

Testing M4 and M4 Pro back to back for me was precisely the test I needed to do and not just listening to 'dumb' YouTube as you've mentioned.

Youtube reviews are usually useless as they all focus on video and/or photography. It's hard to find any other tests (until much later when normal folks start to post theirs tests like 3d, audio etc.)

So I always prefer to get the product and test it with my workflow and my own 'stress' tests.

Next test will be Unreal Engine and Maya.

That was *not* a "same stress scenario". You, he, and many others seem confused about what's being measured.

Video games are an "infinite workload" test, unless they are configured to to frame rate limiting (and possibly other types of limiting). The test of the M4 vs. the M4 Pro that he used was not a constant workload test, which is what you want if you want to see how the two machines stack up when performing the same work task.

It is absolutely true that you could get the M4 Pro to be noisier in a real-world work scenario- it depends on what that scenario is. Transcoding a large file is a good example. The M4 Pro would get the job done a lot faster, but could be noisier during that time. On the other hand, doing audio engineering with Logic, you're gated more by the engineer's human speed. The machine will be part idle all the time - more idle if it's an M4 Pro. That's a constant work scenario, and you're unlikely to run into bad fan noise there.

The only way to know, for your workload, is to TEST THE DAMN MACHINE. Listening to youtube videos instead is just dumb.

 

[Infriad]

If you insist on absolutely silent computing than there is always going to be a point at which to have to sacrifice processing power to keep that silence

Your m1 MacBook Pro isn’t really all that powerful in the grand scheme of things. Either you need a more powerful computer, in which case there is the possibility of sometimes introducing a negligible amount of noise

Or you prefer silence, in which case just keep using what you are using

Having said that, I think the amount of noise the mini could possibly make is getting blown way out of proportion here

I really can’t imagine how it would be that big of a deal

Yeah, I’m definitely leaning toward either keeping what I have or possibly getting the base M4 Mac mini. I haven’t personally heard the fans on the M4 Pro Mac mini; it might not be too bad, but I’m concerned when I hear people say they notice the fan noise even when just syncing iCloud documents. So apparently not only under heavy load like benchmarks.

 

[Confused-User]

It was the same stress scenario. I even mentioned that capping it to match M4 yielded silent machine.

Exactly. Capping it provided a same-stress scenario. Running it at max frames rates (where you heard the sound) did not.

Essentially, the case+fan has a profile of heat removal vs. sound. The M4 can't generate enough heat to push the case far enough along the curve to produce audible sound. The M4 Pro can. We understand that, but what isn't known is how far along the curve you have to push the machine to get an annoying/unacceptable result.

The issue isn't the power but the fact that maxed settings on M4 yields no sound but M4 Pro gets noisy.
I've tested the same game on M2 Pro and it was silent as well.

That machine also has a power/sound profile. You've established that the M2 Pro chip can't push it far enough to be audible (at least with that game). That doesn't really tell you anything about the M4 Pro in the mini case, unless you know that your workload is unbounded and you want to run it unconstrained.

The debate (for me) wasn't that the Pro is worse machine. It was that its worse machine when it comes to noise under heavy load.

You still don't know that. You know (with certain large caveats) that you can get it to work so hard that it gets noisy. But is it a worse machine? Or is it a better machine, that's being allowed to run much further down the power(heat)/noise curve? We still don't have any data on that, as far as I can tell. (And by "better machine" here, I mean "better able to remove heat at a given sound level".)

I get all the technicalities and I understand why but I feel that Apple could have tweaked the design more to behave the same way as M4 - ie. silent.

You still don't know that because you still haven't tested the right thing.

Put another way... let's say you install fan control software, and set it so that the M4 Pro stays silent. How will that affect performance? Will the machine, set that way, be better or worse (for noise) than an M2 Pro Mini? We don't know.

Testing M4 and M4 Pro back to back for me was precisely the test I needed to do and not just listening to 'dumb' YouTube as you've mentioned.

Agreed, and I applaud you for actually doing that. But your data, while useful, doesn't say precisely what you think it does.

I think if you really want to know if this is the machine for you, and the fan noise is a dealbreaker, you need to get the fan control software. Only then can you know.

(And if it's not compatible with the M4 yet... then that would be a problem, and maybe disqualify the machine for you, until the software is updated. But I don't know if that's an issue or not. I'm not the one with the M4...)

 

[Confused-User]

You still don't know that because you still haven't tested the right thing.

Put another way... let's say you install fan control software, and set it so that the M4 Pro stays silent. How will that affect performance? Will the machine, set that way, be better or worse (for noise) than an M2 Pro Mini? We don't know.

I'll add - you can make an excellent argument that Apple made a suboptimal choice about power and noise with their currently available settings for the M4 Pro. And you could say that Apple should make a power-level controller that directly controls fan speed (or sound volume, which amounts to the same thing). I wouldn't argue either of those points.

But with fan control software, the Pro should be fine for everyone. The only important question then is, how much does it hold back the chip's performance? We don't know that.

 

[Confused-User]

[...] I’m concerned when I hear people say they notice the fan noise even when just syncing iCloud documents. So apparently not only under heavy load like benchmarks.

I'd be more than concerned if that were true. I don't believe it is; whoever reported that was likely mistaken, missing something significant that was also happening on the machine. As a counterexample, we have Gloor reporting that it's dead silent running at 60FPS in DOTA. I don't know how that compares to icloud syncing, but it's got to be much more work.

 

[hise]

I'll add - you can make an excellent argument that Apple made a suboptimal choice about power and noise with their currently available settings for the M4 Pro. And you could say that Apple should make a power-level controller that directly controls fan speed (or sound volume, which amounts to the same thing). I wouldn't argue either of those points.

But with fan control software, the Pro should be fine for everyone. The only important question then is, how much does it hold back the chip's performance? We don't know that.

The important question at this point is why we were given a form factor where performance has to be sacrificed to achieve a lower noise level. I'll accept any answer but I don't think anyone can argue that it wasn't a choice that was made.

 

[Gloor]

All valid points but I look at it like Hise user from above.

We got form factor that works for M4 but doesn't for M4 Pro - and that was my whole issue.

Exactly. Capping it provided a same-stress scenario. Running it at max frames rates (where you heard the sound) did not.

Essentially, the case+fan has a profile of heat removal vs. sound. The M4 can't generate enough heat to push the case far enough along the curve to produce audible sound. The M4 Pro can. We understand that, but what isn't known is how far along the curve you have to push the machine to get an annoying/unacceptable result.


That machine also has a power/sound profile. You've established that the M2 Pro chip can't push it far enough to be audible (at least with that game). That doesn't really tell you anything about the M4 Pro in the mini case, unless you know that your workload is unbounded and you want to run it unconstrained.


You still don't know that. You know (with certain large caveats) that you can get it to work so hard that it gets noisy. But is it a worse machine? Or is it a better machine, that's being allowed to run much further down the power(heat)/noise curve? We still don't have any data on that, as far as I can tell. (And by "better machine" here, I mean "better able to remove heat at a given sound level".)


You still don't know that because you still haven't tested the right thing.

Put another way... let's say you install fan control software, and set it so that the M4 Pro stays silent. How will that affect performance? Will the machine, set that way, be better or worse (for noise) than an M2 Pro Mini? We don't know.


Agreed, and I applaud you for actually doing that. But your data, while useful, doesn't say precisely what you think it does.

I think if you really want to know if this is the machine for you, and the fan noise is a dealbreaker, you need to get the fan control software. Only then can you know.

(And if it's not compatible with the M4 yet... then that would be a problem, and maybe disqualify the machine for you, until the software is updated. But I don't know if that's an issue or not. I'm not the one with the M4...)

 

[ravenofdoom]

Are we talking about using fan control software to artificially limit the m4Pro to achieve near-silent (m4) as a benchmark testing scenario, or are folks legitimately thinking about this as a long-term use case? I'm assuming that if one were to achieve mimicking the fan/sound-profile of an m4Pro to be on-par with that of an m4, then there's no point in getting an m4pro (aside from folks wanting TB5 and faster read/writes to the SSD), as the benchmarks of the two would likely be on-par due to thermal throttling on the m4Pro. I guess you could define when you're by the m4Pro machine you want it to be silent with the fan control software, and when you step away and give it a crazy long export or render task, that would be useful (if you know you won't hear the noise), but I think this would be more of a hassle in the real-world than just buying the m4 base.

EDIT: I think the reality with the new mini chassis design is that if you want
1) on a budget and want a near-silent machine with great workstation capability -- get the mini base m4;
2) double the cpu/gpu performance / creator-level processing but can tolerate louder fan sounds -- get the mini m4pro
3) high performance creator and likely to be minimal or a near-silent machine -- get the mac studio

There's three factors -- performance, noise/heat, and cost... there's no trifecta with any of these options, so you have to pick your path

 

[nathansz]

The important question at this point is why we were given a form factor where performance has to be sacrificed to achieve a lower noise level.

performance always has to be sacrificed to achieve a lower noise level

if you are asking why this form factor requires more performance sacrifice for the same noise level as the previous form factor, then I would ask you for your evidence that that is indeed the case

 

[nathansz]

We got form factor that works for M4 but doesn't for M4 Pro - and that was my whole issue.

How do you know that the previous form factor wouldn't have the same result?

 

[Gloor]

How do you know that the previous form factor wouldn't have the same result?

I've tested M2 Pro and it was silent.

M4 Pro is on N3E - more efficient etc. so it should behave the same if not better

 

[nathansz]

I've tested M2 Pro and it was silent.

M4 Pro is on N3E - more efficient etc. so it should behave the same if not better

It is also significantly more powerful from the m2 pro

it also has more cores

The m4 pro could very well require more cooling even in the same form factor

 

[pdxplm]

Base M4 Pro Mini and after day 4, no noise! I was running some heavy video conversions and my M2 would fan up once in awhile. Not a single sound from this powerhouse. Apple really did a great job with this!