'Five Eyes' Governments Urge Tech Companies to Build Backdoors into Encrypted Services

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MacRumors, Sep 4, 2018.

  1. MacRumors macrumors bot


    Apr 12, 2001

    Five nations including the U.S. and the U.K. have urged tech companies to comply with requests to build backdoors into their encrypted services, or potentially face legislation requiring them to do so by law.

    The statement is a result of a meeting last week between the "Five Eyes" intelligence sharing countries, which include the U.S., the U.K., Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

    In a published memo, the governments claim that the use of such backdoors for accessing encrypted data would respect personal rights and privacy, and be limited only to criminal investigations by law enforcement.
    The memo goes on to note that each of the Five Eyes jurisdictions will consider how to implement the statement principles, including "with the voluntary cooperation of industry partners", while adhering to lawful requirements for proper authorization and oversight.

    The statement of principles underlines the fractious relationship between some governments and tech companies regarding encryption over the last few years, in which the popularity of digital messaging services has exploded.

    The U.K. government has long argued that encrypted online channels such as WhatsApp and Telegram provide a "safe haven" for terrorists because governments and even the companies that host the services cannot read them.

    In 2016, Apple and the FBI were involved in a public dispute over the latter's demands to provide a backdoor into iPhones, following the December 2015 shooter incidents in San Bernardino.

    Apple refused to comply with the request, saying that the software the FBI asked for could serve as a "master key" able to be used to get information from any iPhone or iPad - including its most recent devices - while the FBI claimed it only wanted access to a single iPhone.

    In another potential test case, Facebook is currently contesting a demand from the U.S. government that it break the encryption of its popular Messenger app so that law enforcement can listen in to a suspect's conversations as part of an ongoing investigation into a criminal gang.

    Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

    Article Link: 'Five Eyes' Governments Urge Tech Companies to Build Backdoors into Encrypted Services
  2. CerebralX macrumors 6502


    Jun 28, 2013
    Looking for a place of freedom and rationality
    Any citizen who supports this does not deserve freedom and true liberty.
  3. diddl14 macrumors 6502a


    Aug 10, 2009
    As if that would stop terrorism or make it impossible for terrorist to leverage encryption ...
  4. Lord Appleseed macrumors 6502a

    Lord Appleseed

    Nov 7, 2010
    Apple Manor
    Yeah no thanks.
    We don’t need and want backdoors that can be abused or hacked.
  5. makitango macrumors regular

    Apr 15, 2012
    Some time ago, citizens in my country were seen as criminals when they hid jews in their cellars. Let‘s just continue giving them the power to decide who‘s a criminal and who‘s not after having violated every possible human right in their almost already forgotten wars that are younger than 20 years, and not facing any jurisdiction, not even from within their own. Meanwhile, truthspeakers like Snowden and Assange get hunted down and silenced.
    Funny how we humans live the most artificial life as per definition.
  6. Moonjumper, Sep 4, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018

    Moonjumper macrumors 68000


    Jun 20, 2009
    Lincoln, UK
    The problem with backdoors is that sooner or later they can be opened by those it wasn’t intended for, including terrorists. Secure communication is better for our security.
  7. izyreal macrumors regular

    Sep 26, 2012
    This is a fundamental issue for me. I can’t support any politician that would advocate for this type of law
  8. RightMACatU macrumors 65816


    Jul 12, 2012
    If you want backdoors just force everyone to use Google, Yahoo and the likes products.
  9. vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Jan 31, 2010
    Midlife, Midwest
    No thanks, Five Eyes. (Yes please, Five Guys. But that's another topic entirely.)

    I get the need for intelligence agencies and law enforcement to be able to intercept and surveil the communications of criminals, terrorists, and military opponents. Absolutely.

    But there are better ways of doing so than handing the keys to every law-abiding citizen's most private information to any anonymous Government spook and cop out there.

    We hand our cops and spies immense amounts of taxpayer money. We grant them tremendous powers of arrest and investigation. Use those resources and do your job. Want to get inside an Islamic State cell or find out where a Mexican drug cartel is stashing its money? Do your job. Find informants. Plant listening devices. Subpoena bank records. Fly drones and satellites over their safe houses.

    We want to defeat the Islamic State and the world's criminal cartels. But not at the cost of the freedom and privacy of every one of the 8 billion people on earth.
  10. Schranke, Sep 4, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018

    Schranke macrumors 6502a


    Apr 3, 2010
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    The politicians should stat with implementing a lot more transparency in the political process and not make it harder for journalist and the public to see what is going on. But there is not intention to do this, yet they want a backdoor so people suspected, not judged, can be put under surveillance and have their liberty and privacy compromised.

    And how long will it take before the same politicians who wants something like this will advocate for better security due to them being the subject of a 3rd party gaining access through the backdoor?

    This is a road which should not be taken, and those who advocate that privacy is a small cost for security deserves neither.
  11. Heineken macrumors 6502a


    Jan 27, 2018
    How can they deserve it if it doesn’t exist?
  12. Amazing Iceman macrumors 68040

    Amazing Iceman

    Nov 8, 2008
    Florida, U.S.A.
    Governments could implement the best privacy laws, but it only takes one corrupted government official to sell the backdoor information to criminal organizations or simply leak it online.

    Or: hackers would work night and day to find access to the backdoor. It would be as tempting as the 'forbidden fruit'.
  13. RedGala macrumors regular


    Jun 17, 2015
    As if the name “five eyes” wasn’t enough of a reason to be weary of this terrible idea.
  14. macmesser macrumors 6502a

    Aug 13, 2012
    Long Island, NY USA
    It seems the tech companies are being asked to create backdoors, or else legislation will mandate the creation of backdoors. IMO the legislative approach is better. There would need to be a debate and the public could apply pressure on its representatives. Why put the decision in the hands of tech companies? It belongs with the people and their representatives.
  15. 212rikanmofo macrumors 68000

    Jan 31, 2003
    Another attempt to intrude our privacy. NO THANK YOU. Privacy is a big issue in this time in age that we live in. I'm sick and tired of the government slowly taking away our rights and invading our privacy. We need to put our foot down and say NO. Enough is enough.

    When Bush was president, he already passed the Patriot Act that allows the NSA to spy on every citizen. He was able to do this because of the staged 9/11 by our very own government. What sort of people are in our American Government? It's obvious people that truly hate America and want to destroy it from within.

    The world is getting more and more corrupt. We need to regain our country back and make the world a better place.

    Say no to those evil and satanic liberals and democrats who want to destroy the world.

    Trump 2020 and beyond (Best President Ever!), #MAGA #DeleteFacebook #DeleteGoogle #Decentralize #DeleteTwitter
  16. DCIFRTHS macrumors 6502a


    Jan 25, 2008
    Do you believe that the US government carried out attacks on its own people, or that the whole thing was faked?
    Are you just seeking attention by posting this type of nonsense?
    It does make perfect sense that you are a Trump supporter.
  17. ThunderSkunk macrumors 68030


    Dec 31, 2007
    Milwaukee Area
    Understandable, that governments continue their timeless efforts toward absolute power and total and ufettered access into every last area of peoples lives. And in the interest of furthering this brave new era of no security and total transparency, we can expect these totally above-board governments to not mind when those backdoors are used in opening up every meeting and correspondence of every member of their administrations to the public, so the people may have an actual understanding on who and what they’re voting for. You know, for democratic republics to function.

  18. Lerxt macrumors regular

    Nov 30, 2012
    Ok I may be a bit slow today. Where is the punch line? It starts off well but I’m missing the joke...??
  19. dilbert99 macrumors 68020

    Jul 23, 2012
    And I bet you also believe the world is flat, that pigs can fly and unicorns are real
  20. nnoble macrumors 6502

    Jun 19, 2011
    Not withstanding the barrage of invective likely to come my way, I support this in principle. Furthermore, telling me what I deserve or not deserve in terms of liberty and freedom is not in your gift my friend.
  21. ThunderSkunk, Sep 4, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2018

    ThunderSkunk macrumors 68030


    Dec 31, 2007
    Milwaukee Area
    I think the joke was, he points out the entire world is getting MORE corrupt and the people in the government are evil and want to destroy the country they work for, but then says we should all support them through 2020 and beyond, and calls their opposition evil too.

    He seems to be at once ready to climb up on the wings of his passions and soar, and yet conflicted about which end of that great bird to mount, and therein lies the folly, and comedy, of man. Or something.
  22. Moorepheus macrumors 6502


    Sep 13, 2012
    Niagara Falls, NY
    How about you just #DeleteYourInternet with this whole thing that the American Government set up 9/11.

    As for the topic at hand, I understand the issues at hand, from both sides. I just don't know where I personally stand. First, I want my privacy, and for the most part I have it. However, I also think that anyone that wants to destroy my way of life via terrorist activities, I want them caught at all costs, if that includes, infringing on my privacy, I might be ok with that. So, right now I ride the fence on this topic.

    Too many people angry about these governments trying to protect their people. How about be angry at big corporations getting hacks and having people's information (SSN, name, etc) stolen becuase they can't protect us. I see less talk about that just becuase it's not political enough for everyone to get up in arms about.
  23. Huntn macrumors P6


    May 5, 2008
    The Misty Mountains
    Who needs privacy? :rolleyes::oops:
    However I view this as a natural progression in a modern technological age. The more civilized we become, the less individual freedoms we retain because there is less you can do without stepping on someone else. And keep tabs on everyone to keep the bad guys in check. It’s like trying to walk though a 10x10’ room with 20 people sleeping on the floor. The Founding Fathers could not imagine this future. What it means is that your individual privacy is forfeit for the collective good, which is fine and dandy until menevolent forces gain control. :(
  24. chrono1081 macrumors 604


    Jan 26, 2008
    Isla Nublar
  25. CerebralX macrumors 6502


    Jun 28, 2013
    Looking for a place of freedom and rationality
    Lay out your case.

    As far as I can see there is no logical, rational and reasonable argument to support this.

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