Flash Player Performance on Droid 2 Found to Be Hit-or-Miss at Best

[philips]

it's what i've said from the beginning, adobe got started too late. 18 months ago they might have had a shot, but now with 100 million iOS devices, a larger number of blackberries and a rapidly increasing android market (where only a small percentage are capable of flash playback) the critical mass is behind non-flash mobile devices. even if flash worked flawlessly it would have a massive game of catch up to play.

Developer wise, it is HTML5 which has to play catch up. And lack of developers quite easily might become its Achilles heel.

Either within 1-2 years somebody releases decent HTML5 authoring/programming tool which is as good as competing Adobe Flash development tools. Or HTML-only/Flash-less web would remain a pipe dream, as surely CPU speed/RAM size would go up and Adobe would fix most of the show stopper bugs.

And after the latter it is a win-win for the industry: more of the more expensive phones with more of the more h/w demanding software. And there be upgrade carousel for everybody! Well, PC industry went through it already - now it comes to mobiles too.

 

[Piggie]

Silverlight supports Vector Animation. It does it a hell of a lot faster and more efficient too. .Net programming support alone makes it a far more powerful platform to develop on.

Thanks.

I've never even looked at Sliverlight.

I did one search for a demo and the 1st thing I found was a on screen magnifying glass.

Perhaps it was a bad example. Judge for yourself.

Silverlight Magnifying demo:
http://demo.componentone.com/Silverlight/ControlExplorer/#ImageMagnifier/See it in action

Flash based Magnifying demo:
http://www.flabell.com/files/218_e1006_9d139e3a09e531d63440852b89b7dc0b/deploy/index.html


Note: I don't care WHAT we move on towards using, but PLEASE make it better than what we have been using in the past.

Which is the biggest part of the Problem Flash is SO GOOD.

There, I've said it.

The fact that for many reasons Adobe have not been able to hit the mac's hardware for years to get the best speed from it, is a totally separate issue.

 

[HyperZboy]

Thanks.

I've never even looked at Sliverlight.

I did one search for a demo and the 1st thing I found was a on screen magnifying glass.

Perhaps it was a bad example. Judge for yourself.

Silverlight Magnifying demo:
http://demo.componentone.com/Silverlight/ControlExplorer/#ImageMagnifier/See it in action

Flash based Magnifying demo:
http://www.flabell.com/files/218_e1006_9d139e3a09e531d63440852b89b7dc0b/deploy/index.html


Note: I don't care WHAT we move on towards using, but PLEASE make it better than what we have been using in the past.

Which is the biggest part of the Problem Flash is SO GOOD.

There, I've said it.

The fact that for many reasons Adobe have not been able to hit the mac's hardware for years to get the best speed from it, is a totally separate issue.

That Silverlight demo won't even work at all on the most powerful Powermac G5!

You get an error message and there is no Silverlight available to install from Microsoft for any PowerPC Mac.

The FLASH demo works fine of course, go figure.

However, there is a solution I've read...

http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/3707...n-intel-systems-ie-powerpc-or-osx86-installs/

EDIT: Nevermind, that didn't work either.

 

[Wondercow]

Like it isn't enough that information is getting censured left and right anyway (via rubbish main stream media) - now Steve is going huge leap forward by effectively and practically censuring HUGE chunk of internet

Hahahahahahaha

That word doesn't mean what you think it means; no one is censuring the Internet nor information.

Hahahahahahaha indeed.

 

[Reed Rothchild]

Wow, 17 pages (and counting) of hot air - these macrumors editors know how to get the clicks in. Flash debates must be a cash cow for all the blogs out there at the moment .

I'll throw my oar in. I run Froyo 2.2 on an antiquated (7 months old!) Nexus One. Flash works absolutely perfectly when I want to view it (using on-demand browser setting). I browsed around miniclip.com and all of the silly games there seemed playable (not that I'd bother - native apps are much better currently on mobile devices). It's also great when trawling the tech sites (including here) to be able to click on any video content posted knowing it'll work. Fed up with being treated like a second class citizen on my iPad and previous iPhone. Obviously not everyone has got the Jobsian message that Flash is already dead and buried...

If Macrumors would like to run a piece on how well Flash runs on my device (though I'm sure I'm not unique in that score) then feel free to drop me a PM. It may even generate more clicks, and well know what clicks mean .

 

[blunderboy]

That Silverlight demo won't even work at all on the most powerful Powermac G5!

You get an error message and there is no Silverlight available to install from Microsoft for any PowerPC Mac.

The FLASH demo works fine of course, go figure.

However, there is a solution I've read...

http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/3707...n-intel-systems-ie-powerpc-or-osx86-installs/

EDIT: Nevermind, that didn't work either.

Yeah, Microsoft only released Silverlight 1.0 for the PowerPC, and most Silverlight web apps aren't compatible with it. You need an Intel Mac in order to be able to see just about anything with it. Adobe might be dragging their feet in optimising Flash for the Mac, but they've got better backward compatibility than MS have here.

 

[ImageWrangler]

What's this "flash" of which these people speak?

Oh, right, that past-it's-time technology that was kinda cool in the 90s and allowed a semi-rich web experience which has now been surpassed by a wealth of much more future-proof advanced lower power and better optimized for a wide-variety of deployment technologies that crush flash like a beer can at a kegger.

So long flash, nice knowing ya but you just don't cut it and those clinging to it are like those who'd cling to any other dying platform, deniers or they're somehow making money off it or those delusional about it's "performance" or need, in other words, people out-of-touch with reality.

PS I was over Flash long before this debate and/or Apple lack-of-support bruhaha. The writing was on the wall LONG before the iPhone.

 

[ImageWrangler]

Wow, 17 pages (and counting) of hot air - these macrumors editors know how to get the clicks in. Flash debates must be a cash cow for all the blogs out there at the moment .

I'll throw my oar in. I run Froyo 2.2 on an antiquated (7 months old!) Nexus One. Flash works absolutely perfectly when I want to view it (using on-demand browser setting). I browsed around miniclip.com and all of the silly games there seemed playable (not that I'd bother - native apps are much better currently on mobile devices). It's also great when trawling the tech sites (including here) to be able to click on any video content posted knowing it'll work. Fed up with being treated like a second class citizen on my iPad and previous iPhone. Obviously not everyone has got the Jobsian message that Flash is already dead and buried...

If Macrumors would like to run a piece on how well Flash runs on my device (though I'm sure I'm not unique in that score) then feel free to drop me a PM. It may even generate more clicks, and well know what clicks mean .

Guessing you're the type probably bummed when people stopped putting floppy drives in computers as well.

 

[Reed Rothchild]

Guessing you're the type probably bummed when people stopped putting floppy drives in computers as well.

Not really. I simply realised that what Apple is trying to do is never going to work. It'll please the small minority of those who have a jihad relationship with Flash, but for the rest of the world it's really not important.

Still great fun to read though .

 

[Master Chief]

I'm not pro-flash or anything, but people are so going to pay for H.264 content [eventually]. Just wait and see.

 

[-=XX=-Nephilim]

That word doesn't mean what you think it means; no one is censuring the Internet nor information.

Hahahahahahaha indeed.

You are right

But I am sure you know what I mean...


If not, let me correct my spelling:

Steve Jobs via iDevices and politics of not allowing Flash is practically and effectively CENSORING (hope this is right now) huge chunk of the net...

Ok now?

 

[HyperZboy]

Yeah, Microsoft only released Silverlight 1.0 for the PowerPC, and most Silverlight web apps aren't compatible with it. You need an Intel Mac in order to be able to see just about anything with it. Adobe might be dragging their feet in optimising Flash for the Mac, but they've got better backward compatibility than MS have here.

I actually managed to install Silverlight 4.0 by removing the InstallationCheck file from the package, but it still doesn't work.

But doesn't that suggest it's still a Universal Binary?

Anyway, now I'm wondering how I can get RID of it!

 

[-=XX=-Nephilim]

Wow, 17 pages (and counting) of hot air - these macrumors editors know how to get the clicks in. Flash debates must be a cash cow for all the blogs out there at the moment .

I'll throw my oar in. I run Froyo 2.2 on an antiquated (7 months old!) Nexus One. Flash works absolutely perfectly when I want to view it (using on-demand browser setting). I browsed around miniclip.com and all of the silly games there seemed playable (not that I'd bother - native apps are much better currently on mobile devices). It's also great when trawling the tech sites (including here) to be able to click on any video content posted knowing it'll work. Fed up with being treated like a second class citizen on my iPad and previous iPhone. Obviously not everyone has got the Jobsian message that Flash is already dead and buried...

If Macrumors would like to run a piece on how well Flash runs on my device (though I'm sure I'm not unique in that score) then feel free to drop me a PM. It may even generate more clicks, and well know what clicks mean .

Awesome post

Without guys like you this site would be text book example of what lobotomy and Orwelian like politics can do to human brains...

Good stuff and keep it up...

 

[Reed Rothchild]

Just tried playing the flash game Blood Red on the Nexus. Apparently this is unplayable according to the article that triggered this thread.

Nonsense. It plays fine in full screen, all of the touch controls work well to aim the weapon, and it's fast! It's no Aliens Versus Zombies, but certainly a bit of fun while taking a well-earned time-out from the Flash is dead debates.

I think the "review" is laptopmag is seriously flawed. But that's never stopped anyone from posting opinions disguised as facts before .

 

[Piggie]

What's this "flash" of which these people speak?

Oh, right, that past-it's-time technology that was kinda cool in the 90s and allowed a semi-rich web experience which has now been surpassed by a wealth of much more future-proof advanced lower power and better optimized for a wide-variety of deployment technologies that crush flash like a beer can at a kegger.

So long flash, nice knowing ya but you just don't cut it and those clinging to it are like those who'd cling to any other dying platform, deniers or they're somehow making money off it or those delusional about it's "performance" or need, in other words, people out-of-touch with reality.

PS I was over Flash long before this debate and/or Apple lack-of-support bruhaha. The writing was on the wall LONG before the iPhone.

This is the kind of stupid post that does no-one any favours.

What you say is simply not true as of TODAY.

It may be true in 5 or 10 years time but not today.

I don't think there is yet any alternative to Flash that does all it does as well and easy as it does it.

If there was then everyone would be racing to use it.

 

[chagla]

Flash (v9) works flawlessly on my Nokia N900. I don't have a droid to test but N900 works just fine.

 

[cdmoore74]

Pretty funny that a dedicated Mac site has Android news. Android must be doing something right. But anyway. At least Android has an option for flash and it's only getting better. And given the fact that Android phone(s) are coming out fast and furious Android will have more options to play with. Don't expect the next Iphone to be a major leap because you guys and girls stuck in 2 year contracts will scream bloody murder. I upgrade once a year (primary line benefits with Verizon) and it's nice to have options. On the record, I hope Verizon never gets the Iphone. Let it stay on AT&T to rot.

 

[AidenShaw]

it's not hardware

The fact that for many reasons Adobe have not been able to hit the mac's hardware for years to get the best speed from it, is a totally separate issue.

Flash runs fine on Mac hardware - just dual-boot into Windows

 

[darkplanets]

I don't despise nor hate Flash, but I do, however, dislike it.

Obviously it shouldn't be used as a container for video content. That's just stupid.

However, Flash does serve a purpose in the end, and while the similarities between plain JS and action script are rather... close, alternate solutions still need some development before they're viable replacements.

To those of you saying, "who cares if its power hungry and inefficient," why do you not care? I personally care quite a bit, ESPECIALLY in the mobile space, where CPU, GPU and battery life are key limiting factors, and will be for some time. It's not that the content provided by Flash is bad, it's that the implementation is poor at best. It really is somewhat appalling, and Adobe doesn't seem to really care. That's what I find the most annoying about Flash.

Now there's Silverlight, which is actually much better, but again, this shouldn't be used as a container for video. Perfect example; I was watching the Olympics online, and they used Silverlight as the video container. Streaming/watching HD content (720p) made my CPU and GPU heat skyrocket to ridiculous levels. Meanwhile, if I just play a nice HD movie (1080p), I have no heat issues whatsoever. It's really kind of sad. Silverlight is no more perfect than Flash is in the end; both are fundamentally flawed.

Just my two cents though; there seems to be some far leaning zealots on both sides in here, who make up the most ridiculous excuses for either 1) excluding content, and 2) ignoring critical faults.

 

[HyperZboy]

Yeah, Microsoft only released Silverlight 1.0 for the PowerPC, and most Silverlight web apps aren't compatible with it. You need an Intel Mac in order to be able to see just about anything with it. Adobe might be dragging their feet in optimising Flash for the Mac, but they've got better backward compatibility than MS have here.

Silverlight 2.0b2 was actually PowerPC compatible.

However, the final Microsoft release of Silverlight 2.0 denies PowerPC installation even though it will work if you remove a file from the package.

But the bigger dilemma is where in the world can you find a copy of Silverlight 2.0 now that it's up to 4.0?

I can only find 1.0 and 4.0

 

[bkspero]

So work with Adobe in a professional manner

You're looking at the problem too plainly. You have to realize that the version for Mac and the version for Windows are not identical, and then you can start to see why there might be differences. The operating system plays a big role, yes, but that role is also a part of why you can't use the same exact version of a plugin for both mac and windows. Different binaries, different APIs, just plain different. At the end of the day, it's up to adobe to do the programming. If they don't do it well, the product sucks. Even if adobe has to use software rendering on most macs because of lack of API support, i for one have never had performance problems with flash, even WITH software rendering…

EDIT: And like you said, you're not a programmer, so you probably don't understand how many differences there are between the same piece of software designed for two different OSes.

I recognize those differences. Then work with Adobe in a professional manner and address them. Adobe have shown that they were willing to commit resources to Apple for Flash, and now it supports accelerated video on the most recent Macs. And Adobe did this despite Apple's childish style of criticism overall for Flash.

Apple has to meet them half way. I know that the fanboys here will claim that Apple has tried to do that, but we both know that Apple meets no one half way. It's Apple's way or the highway.

It's up to Apple to provide more of the APIs for Adobe to use to integrate Flash into OS X and iOS. Just as MS has done.

 

[KnightWRX]

UI 101, if its not easy to find it may as well not exist.

Who's to say it's not easy to find it ? Remember, people posting these comments don't even own Android phones.

And Flash is not stock on Android, you need to grab it from the Android Market, so that's strike 2 against people whining. You need to actively go out of your way to even install it, and then in the settings you can choose weather it's on all the time or at a click.

Seriously, stop commenting if you don't have a clue about it. Flash doesn't slow down your phone unless you really want it to.

 

[bkspero]

Great site

I'm a photographer (and part time nerd) and invested a shed lot of time learning flash to build my own website a few years ago. I loved the design freedom of flash but hated the over designed "resource hogging" flash sites out there. I built mine very simply, and I like to think it's great, and guess what, it takes up very little system resource. I've replicated some aspects of it using Javascript only to find the same amount (if not more) system resource being used. So my take on this flash thing killing system resource is it's because of the number of rubbish, totally geeky, flash designers out there completely over designing sites "because they can". They can't do the same thing with anything else, so guess what, the sites not using flash take up less system resource.

My flash web site for anyone interested: www.lloydsturdy.com

Nice site. Quick to load despite lots of images. Attractive (except for the two portly gentlemen competing for the football on the home page).

It is a shame to throw away access to sites like yours because Flash can't yet stream some types of hi res video to mobile devices.

 

[faroZ06]

agh

I don’t think we need pages long articles proving that Flash is horrendous performance hog. On CPU and RAM.

Ever since version 8 it became unbearably slow.

Finally someone who agrees with me! I hate Flash version >8, but I had to download FP10 for HQ videos on Youtube. Now it's slower

 

[bkspero]

Slight correction

Yes, everyone should need a proprietary Web plugin to access these types of information.

A little passive-aggressive, no? Make a slight correction and it works just fine.

Yes, everyone should have the option to install a proprietary Web plugin to access these types of information.

But I forgot, in the land of lemmings, only the leader has options.