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Flash is here to stay whether you want it to or not. Its a big part of Adobe's revenue stream so its not like they aren't going to continue to adapt and evolve the product. Poor performance is usually attributable to AS2 written stuff or people who just dont know how to code. Flash is a great product that has had a pretty big hand in making the web what it is today. As developers take mobile devices into account, now that it is becoming widely more accessible; sites will become even better.

As for video, HTML5 has such a long way to go to catch up with Flash its not even funny.

Apple didn't want Flash on their devices for three reasons. 1: Because half the stuff in the App store is nothing more than a port of a Flash game or something similar, Apple wanted to make money off of that.

2: Ads, Apple wanted to make money off of that as well so no Flash Ads.

3. Contrary to popular belief Flash is open, well at least the coding aspect of it is. Where as the iPhone dev kit is not! Apple again wanted money, who blames them though.

I would love to see what the Cartoon Networks development pipeline looks like for their Adult Swim, Flash games that end up as Aps on iTunes.


Anyway, stop hating just because you don't have Flash on your iOS devices. It works really well on Android and will only get better in the near future!

Great post :)

Funny how iSheep can't and never will understand this...

They can't even connect the dots!

I mean Steve is the same guy who blessed Boot Camp which allows 'shock horror' of operating system called Windows to be installed directly on Mac!

Yet "he is concerned" about OPTIONAL Flash player browser plug-in for his **** iDevices!?!?!? LOL! :D

Main reasons are exactly what you wrote in your post and anyone with grain of salt in their heads knows it :)
 
No, my N1 lags like hell.

I even did the equivalent to a restore for an Android Phone and it didn't help.

Hmm, sorry can't help. It works fine and at good speed on my N1. May be worth asking around XDA developers, though it's just as likely to be a network issue assuming you're on stock Android 2.2.
 
No, my N1 lags like hell.

I even did the equivalent to a restore for an Android Phone and it didn't help.

same here. flash on my N1, rooted and overclocked, still is laggy and crappy. even when playing on a fast wifi connection. but the flash ads work fine, slowing down my browser downloads :rolleyes: (luckily CyanogenMod custom ROM blocks flash content until you "click" on it)
 
same here. flash on my N1, rooted and overclocked, still is laggy and crappy. even when playing on a fast wifi connection. but the flash ads work fine, slowing down my browser downloads :rolleyes: (luckily CyanogenMod custom ROM blocks flash content until you "click" on it)

That's nothing to do with Cyanogen. The Flash plugin can be set to load on-demand on any ROM, official or not. Strange that you guys find the site laggy on an N1 though. Front page loads in around 4 seconds for me, which isn't bad for such a content-rich page. The site could do with a mobile-specific option though (as could macrumors). The likes of Techcrunch and Arstechnica show how it should be done.
 
Honestly I thought apple was paying you for your beyond ultra fanboy posts until i realized that even they would be embarrassed by your posting.

I don't recommend criticizing or calling out Apple fan-boys that appear to be on the Apple payroll.

They immediately get in a hissy fit, gang up and start TROLL reporting.

Then you get a TIME-OUT from the Mac Rumors moderators.

You have nothing to gain by arguing here. It's like whistling in the wind.

Just make your valid point, then let them run 25 pages of mindless rants and be on with your more important life outside the blogosphere. :D
 
No, my N1 lags like hell.

I even did the equivalent to a restore for an Android Phone and it didn't help.

Is there a specific video that you would like to point out? I tried 3: epic mickey, spoken word and a movie review. All 3 were not optimized for mobile, but they played back just fine. The only gripe is you cant scrub through the timeline.
 
Performance issues? Check.
Not suitable for touch devices? Check.

Is anyone honestly surprised? This is still Adobe.
 
Ho can something like this exist if its closed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swfdec

Could I please ask whether you read the content of this link? This is a limited implementation of a SWF reader which stopped about 18 months ago!!!!!

Example: There are now embedded ads within Youtube videos, along with many other websites. You click the closed button. Flash then send information back to server stating that you, as a user, have closed this ad "number of seconds" after it was shown. Also the data can be and is correlated with the music and the type of movie you are watching. The technology behind this cannot be made open source (for many many reasons:cool:)
 
Flash is here to stay whether you want it to or not.

True.

But there are a lot of inconvenient facts getting in the way of Flash as a future standard. And, unlike a lot of posters on the board, I write and design apps for Flash, iOS, and the web.

HTML5 is in it's infancy. There is no question. But it is the standard by which all future web based applications and websites will be developed, not flash. Why? It is supported by all major browsers– anything webkit based (Chrome, Safari, nearly all mobile browsers), Firefox, Opera, and even Internet Explorer– although we need IE9 as fast as possible to auto update all 7 and 8 installations. When I say "we" I mean all of humanity. :)

Flash, as a technology, will only survive if it can offer core features you CAN'T get in HTML5. Right now, Adobe is focusing on 3D. This is hilarious in some ways, because Viewpoint / MetaCreations had the best 3D implementation around for years until they ran it into the ground. But even 3D is being addressed by Webkit, and could easily be assed to the open spec.

For video, there is seriously NO POINT to placing content online as FLV's from a development perspective. Not anymore. Maybe some tools used to expedite the processing and publishing aspect are still cranking out Flash– but they, at bare minimum, will offer HTML5 export soon. Why? Because they will INCREASE viewership when they do. Simple business math here.

But let's get right down to brass tacks, shall we? It's all about the feature sets. No matter WHAT Adobe does in Flash, their ability to implement those features efficiently in their Plugin will remain dependent on their ability to accelerate it using platform specific API's that may or may not be available to them through the plugin architecture. However, when new technologies are implemented directly in the browser, they have access to any new feature in the documented API's on the specific platform.

Case in point: video acceleration and 3D performance. Both require access to the GPU. Both will be insurmountably easier for Browser vendors to implement and maintain than it will be for Adobe. Simply put, there is always going to be a layer between Adobe and the OS that won't be there for the browsers native implementations.

Adobe could compete by creating really good IDE's, publishing tools, and vendor support. But why not just create IDE's that pump out industry standards? Even from a business perspective, Adobe does not make MONEY on Flash. They make money selling tools to create Flash. They could make just as much money making tools to build HTML5 compliant Rich Internet Apps.

I don't see Flash being a major player in 5 years. Sure, it will be around. But it won't be dominant. The tide is obvious to anyone doing the actual development.
 
True.

But there are a lot of inconvenient facts getting in the way of Flash as a future standard. And, unlike a lot of posters on the board, I write and design apps for Flash, iOS, and the web.

HTML5 is in it's infancy. There is no question. But it is the standard by which all future web based applications and websites will be developed, not flash. Why? It is supported by all major browsers– anything webkit based (Chrome, Safari, nearly all mobile browsers), Firefox, Opera, and even Internet Explorer– although we need IE9 as fast as possible to auto update all 7 and 8 installations. When I say "we" I mean all of humanity. :)

Flash, as a technology, will only survive if it can offer core features you CAN'T get in HTML5. Right now, Adobe is focusing on 3D. This is hilarious in some ways, because Viewpoint / MetaCreations had the best 3D implementation around for years until they ran it into the ground. But even 3D is being addressed by Webkit, and could easily be assed to the open spec.

For video, there is seriously NO POINT to placing content online as FLV's from a development perspective. Not anymore. Maybe some tools used to expedite the processing and publishing aspect are still cranking out Flash– but they, at bare minimum, will offer HTML5 export soon. Why? Because they will INCREASE viewership when they do. Simple business math here.

But let's get right down to brass tacks, shall we? It's all about the feature sets. No matter WHAT Adobe does in Flash, their ability to implement those features efficiently in their Plugin will remain dependent on their ability to accelerate it using platform specific API's that may or may not be available to them through the plugin architecture. However, when new technologies are implemented directly in the browser, they have access to any new feature in the documented API's on the specific platform.

Case in point: video acceleration and 3D performance. Both require access to the GPU. Both will be insurmountably easier for Browser vendors to implement and maintain than it will be for Adobe. Simply put, there is always going to be a layer between Adobe and the OS that won't be there for the browsers native implementations.

Adobe could compete by creating really good IDE's, publishing tools, and vendor support. But why not just create IDE's that pump out industry standards? Even from a business perspective, Adobe does not make MONEY on Flash. They make money selling tools to create Flash. They could make just as much money making tools to build HTML5 compliant Rich Internet Apps.

I don't see Flash being a major player in 5 years. Sure, it will be around. But it won't be dominant. The tide is obvious to anyone doing the actual development.

Lots of great points. The problem though is that HTML5 is far from complete, and is already fragmenting when it should be pulling together to provide the next generation experience that we all want.

When the world's most dominant browser is hedging its bets about fully committing to HTML5 (and more specifically, having integrated codecs), when the world's largest broadcasting organisation is having doubts about HTML5 while embracing Flash, when Flash provides DRM that the content owners want, when Flash is often a lot more efficient than HTML5 video, when Flash offers a lot more than just video and which is not replicable within HTML5, and last (but not least), when Android devices continue to flood the market and provide Flash delivery - it will take an immense effort from more than just Apple to shake off the Adobe hegemony.

History shows that the least worst option is often adopted ahead of the best gold-plated option - unless a dominant force can push it through despite all of the barriers. Apple are obviously giving it a go, and they are backed by a number of content providers who can see the revenue benefits, but it's still very early days for both technologies in the mobile field. HTML5 is going to take a very long time to become a standard across all platforms (if it manages it at all).

As has been said in thread more than once - time will tell :).
 
Great post :)

Funny how iSheep can't and never will understand this...

They can't even connect the dots!

I mean Steve is the same guy who blessed Boot Camp which allows 'shock horror' of operating system called Windows to be installed directly on Mac!

Yet "he is concerned" about OPTIONAL Flash player browser plug-in for his **** iDevices!?!?!? LOL! :D

Main reasons are exactly what you wrote in your post and anyone with grain of salt in their heads knows it :)

You have it wrong. Flash player runs on iOS, reducing the quality of the OS. Windows on Bootcamp does not affect Mac OS X.

LMAO

Another "fan-boy" rant.

So "original".

Read my signature. I'm sick of every single person on this forum who says that Apple is doing something right being called fanboys. People thought I was a fanboy when I said that Apple is not attacking Adobe, they just want the iPhone to be as good as possible, and now look where we are :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by RobertMartens
I don't think you are cool enough.

Does that count as insulting? I almost got banned for insulting (I knew there was a rule somewhere but I thought it was on a different forum).
 
HTML5 performance on iOS found to be hit or miss

This whole thread could just as easily have been named "HTML5 performance on iOS found to be hit or miss".

Try some HTML5 demos on desktop Safari vs mobile Safari. Some look good, some don't work right.

  • Not all Flash _OR_ HTML5 code is going to run slick and fast on mobile devices.
  • Both Flash _AND_ HTML5 can suffer from similar mouse/key-input coding problems.
For my money, top-of-the-line devices should support both for the foreseeable future.

And again, without a decent IDE, HTML5 isn't going to replace Flash.
 
I sold an original mac mini in may of this year for a bit over £100. It cost me £360 (or £380) 5 years ago and let me tell you, it still ran Tiger really nicely. Better than the 1 year old PC I had at the time ran XP.

People still use old G4 powermacs and they are over 5 years old. How much would a 5 year old pc get you if you were to sell it today?

Since the Apple-hater you were addressing decided not to answer this (for obvious reasons), I'll help you out.

You'd get absolutely nothing for a 5- year old PC, because there is zero market for one. You could possibly donate it to a church/school in need, but even they would probably shoot you a dirty look, knowing that you were just getting rid of something that would otherwise clutter up a closet.
 
You have it wrong. Flash player runs on iOS, reducing the quality of the OS. Windows on Bootcamp does not affect Mac OS X.

No, there is no way of running flash player on iOS natively. Please don't mislead people at large, and if you mention 'frash' or some other 3rd party half-assed app I'm gonna puke.
 
No, there is no way of running flash player on iOS natively. Please don't mislead people at large, and if you mention 'frash' or some other 3rd party half-assed app I'm gonna puke.

Don't bother with his statements... I know what he means :)

I'll rephrase myself:

Steve Jobs is the same guy who allowed different 'evil shock horror' operating systems such as Windows to run DIRECTLY on Mac via Boot Camp or indeed via number of emulation softwares such as Parallel Desktop or Fusion.

When running Fusion or Parallel Desktop - OS X indeed slows down drastically!

Yet, that same guy called Steve Jobs, is all of a sudden "concerned" about quality of frekn OPTIONAL web plug-in for iDevices!?!?!?!?!

Give me a break :D

All he is concerned about is actual POWER of Flash and its ability to undermine his wallet and his draconian plans...
 
-=XX=-Nephilim said:
When running Fusion or Parallel Desktop - OS X indeed slows down drastically!
Neither one, as a rule, has that effect on a general system.
All he is concerned about is actual POWER of Flash and its ability to undermine his wallet and his draconian plans...
People keep saying this, that Flash is banned because of games, etc. that would cut into iTunes Store profits. Funny that, since HTML 5 will also have the same effect. There are already web apps and games available with more to come as the standard takes off.
 
Flash is crap enough on my MacBook Air, 2.13ghz.

I can only imagine how slow it is on a phone.

Click2Flash on Safari works great and I rarely have to enable the flash, older youtube videos mainly.

I don't know why it always sucks on Macs...

Flash works VERY well on my EVO 4G. It also has Flash On Demand, so you get a placeholder until you touch it to load flash.

It makes for a very complete web browsing experience since it supports just about every major technology on the web.

I think the bigger point to be made is that if the EVO can do it why can't the iPhone? I just don't think that Apple wants to pay Adobe for a license and worry about pushing out updates to their entire OS just because of Flash updates (which would result in lots of iPhone users running out of date versions of Flash). This is only a problem because Apple does not let developers (Adobe) release apps in the App Store that will add plugins to their browser.

Oh well.
 
I don't know why it always sucks on Macs...

Flash works VERY well on my EVO 4G. It also has Flash On Demand, so you get a placeholder until you touch it to load flash.

It makes for a very complete web browsing experience since it supports just about every major technology on the web.

I think the bigger point to be made is that if the EVO can do it why can't the iPhone? I just don't think that Apple wants to pay Adobe for a license and worry about pushing out updates to their entire OS just because of Flash updates (which would result in lots of iPhone users running out of date versions of Flash). This is only a problem because Apple does not let developers (Adobe) release apps in the App Store that will add plugins to their browser.

Oh well.

I have been playing with Flash on the EVO and it does indeed run very well.

I don't know if LAPTOP knew what they were doing, or if they had a badly set up device, but the issues they had are not experienced by the majority of users. If you want to read something from a more reputable source, try "Adobe proves that Flash can work on mobile devices."

Of course, you'll always have some pages which will create problems, particularly for mobile devices, but this is valid for both HTML5 and Flash.

The bottom line is, both Flash and HTML5 will coexist on the web for the foreseeable future. Flash is already up and running on Android, and Android is picking up steam. It is rapidly improving, with OS3 due before Christmas, and the hardware is changing so fast that by next summer speeds will have doubled. It is very likely that within a year Android will be the dominant mobile OS and all this will be a mute point for most users.

I actually believe that at some point Steve Jobs will agree to allow Flash on iOS, as long as he can neuter it to protect Apple's revenue streams from app and media sales, and from iAd.

But by then, Android will be the mobile 800 lbs gorilla, and the Apple fanboys will be pointing out how lame Windows 7 Mobile is, because it doesn't support Flash (unless of course Windows 7 gets it before iOS).
 
I don't know if LAPTOP knew what they were doing, or if they had a badly set up device, but the issues they had are not experienced by the majority of users.

You've done a survey, have you?

It is very likely that within a year Android will be the dominant mobile OS and all this will be a mute point for most users.

Which version of Android?

(Oh, and it's "moot point," BTW.)

I actually believe that at some point Steve Jobs will agree to allow Flash on iOS

I find this unlikely. I think Apple will stand its ground on open Web standards (unlike Google).

But by then, Android will be the mobile 800 lbs gorilla, and the Apple fanboys will be pointing out how lame Windows 7 Mobile is, because it doesn't support Flash (unless of course Windows 7 gets it before iOS).

The Fandroids will be doing even more barking about WinPho 7, as its business model makes it Android's closest competitor.
 
You've done a survey, have you?....

I have hands on experience, which you obviously don't.

Also, here is what the Examiner says about Flash on Android:

"First, let me apologize to Adobe for all the harsh articles on how Flash is outdated, how it doesn't work on mobile devices and how HTML5 is taking over. After using Adobe Flash with my HTC EVO and Android's Froyo operating system, I am now a believer.

I have been staying at a hotel in Ontario California for the past couple days. Unfortunately, I am not getting LA or Orange County's newly acquired 4G signal. I've been testing Flash enabled sites with a slower-than-usual 3G speed and have rarely run into any problems.

For the past couple of days, I have been watching content directly from YouTube, streaming Flash videos from CNET, enjoying episodes of SpongeBob SquarePants (okay, laugh at me) on Nickelodian, watching Flash enabled video clips on Foxnews.com, and basically enjoying Flash content all over the web. For the first time, I feel like I truly have the Internet in my hands...."
 
"First, let me apologize to Adobe for all the harsh articles on how Flash is outdated, how it doesn't work on mobile devices and how HTML5 is taking over. After using Adobe Flash with my HTC EVO and Android's Froyo operating system, I am now a believer.

I have been staying at a hotel in Ontario California for the past couple days. Unfortunately, I am not getting LA or Orange County's newly acquired 4G signal. I've been testing Flash enabled sites with a slower-than-usual 3G speed and have rarely run into any problems.

For the past couple of days, I have been watching content directly from YouTube, streaming Flash videos from CNET, enjoying episodes of SpongeBob SquarePants (okay, laugh at me) on Nickelodian, watching Flash enabled video clips on Foxnews.com, and basically enjoying Flash content all over the web. For the first time, I feel like I truly have the Internet in my hands...."

I'm going to be a complete arse and say he's had the internet in his hands all along. He's holding 99% of the world wide web in his hands now. :p
 
Vast majority of Flash content on the web depends on mouse-over events for navigation and main functionality. For all this content you must use a mouse. No mouse - no functionality. So, what good is a Flash implementation on a (multi)touch screen, when you simply have very little use for it?
 
Since the Apple-hater you were addressing decided not to answer this (for obvious reasons), I'll help you out.

You'd get absolutely nothing for a 5- year old PC, because there is zero market for one. You could possibly donate it to a church/school in need, but even they would probably shoot you a dirty look, knowing that you were just getting rid of something that would otherwise clutter up a closet.

Au Contraire, Mon Ami...my 6 year old PC easily runs any linux distribution I care to install. At the moment I triple boot with Ubuntu 10.04, Mint 10.04 XFCE and PCLinuxOS 2010.7.
 
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