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Flash Soon to Hit the iPad?
- Thread starter LouieSamman
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What!? The only argument in favour of iOS handling Flash is because there is stuff on the web in Flash. What is another standard supposed to do?
If someone wants to write a game, they can make an app. HTML5 can handle video. The problem is existing web content which is Flash-based and which can't be accessed on an iDevice. If people are willing to move all their Flash websites over to this third standard, they'd be willing to write apps and convert to HTML5.
I mean games, animations and interactive sites in the web browser as a full rich experience. Not keep leaving the browser and worrying about upgrading separate apps.
The whole beauty of Flash was that it was device independant, so everyone could enjoy the same things. Not having to create apps for different brands of hardware, that goes against everything.
From what I've seen HTML5 is worse than flash isn't it?
Uses more CPU power, and needs a ton of coding to create the same effects on screen, and I believe slower also.
What is a 'full rich experience'? The most successful websites are the simplest and they are successful in part because they use text and embedded video judiciously. See my next point.
No, that's the beauty of simple website design and skilled use of HTML. Flash is like CD-ROM multimedia from the early 90s or MIDI sounds loading when you visit an entry page. It looks 'neat' but doesn't achieve ends that couldn't have been achieved otherwise and gets in the @#$%ing way. (For the record, I understand that people want the option of Flash in order to access content and am not disputing that. That doesn't mean Flash is a good medium in itself, just that it is the only form some web content actually takes).
Who cares? The better question is 'what do people want to put on their websites? What do people want out of a website?'. Flash is very rarely necessary to achieve these ends. A third solution from Apple and Microsoft is a solution to a problem which doesn't exist.
Yes, HTML 5 isn't replacing flash anytime soon since nobody outside of big corporations will be willing to spend 2x the resources to develop interactive content with HTML 5 to only satisfy iOS users.
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While that may be true that smaller companies are unable to convert their websites to HTML5 out of cost, it's pretty-much a certainty that when they have to update their website in a few years they won't be using Flash again. Same again applies for any new websites that are being developed from today onwards.
Companies acknowledge the prevalence of iOS devices on the web. I've seen this over the last year after all my banks, other web services, and the majority of sites I browse have added HTML5 support or a dedicated app for my iPad (which has been my only computer for the last year). This adoption is probably helped by the fact that I walked into my bank the other day and saw the manager using an iPad, which shows it's not only iPad consumers that companies need to support.
To be honest, if the iPad has been your only computer you use for a whole year that says more than anything you post
Apple said to adobe to demonstrate flash working well on the iPhone, Adobe so far have not done so. so the ball is in Adobe's hands and they've dropped the ball....
lol i hated flash since 2005 and i'm a windows user, so how have i had the kool-aid?
lol i hated flash since 2005 and i'm a windows user, so how have i had the kool-aid?
Very true. However, as soon as you move past video Flash struggles on touchscreen devices because a huge majority of the flash websites which do anything that really needs flash rely on the mouse.
David
I've thought of an easy way to get over that problem, and I don't understand why Apple has not thought of it yet.
My idea would allow the screen to track as you move your finger over the screen and detect when you press a button or control and it's so incredibly simple to implement.
1: Do you think it's possible that great games can be written in HTML5?
It's not exactly been written with this is mind has it?
2: Do you think such games would run fast enough if it's inefficient at this type of job?
3: If, and it's a big if, great HTML5 games did come out, might apple Ban/Not support them?
Games written in Flash are typically going to be pretty "low entertainment value" propositions: The sort of junk you find on Yahoo! Games.
Some people find that they can't live without stuff like that. Its "free" and provides a few yucks for the simple minded.
To be honest, to me its an example of how "internet free" is a bad deal. The game, the graphics, and the overall experience are simply not worth my time.
Maybe there are examples of better quality games written in Flash. But they are NEVER going to rival the quality of gameplay you are going to get on a decent console system. Or on a handheld device like PSP, or on a decent gaming PC. They certainly don't even come close to the experience you get playing an iPad game - even "freebies" on the iTunes store are far, far better than any Flash game ever made.
The thing Flash has going for it is its "barriers to entry" are amazingly low: Pretty much any PC (or Mac) made in the last 12 years or so can install a Flash plugin and play the game. Some better than others.
But just because it has a "low barrier to entry" isn't a very compelling reason for ME to play it. Why would I want to play a game that is designed around the lowest-common denominator? I don't pick my clothes, my cars, my housing, my food, my liquor, or my women based on that sort of criteria. In fact - I go out of my way to avoid them.
That's right, and it's the biggest argument against a Flash on/off option and click-to-Flash. Since most people don't know what it is, when they come across websites using Flash that don't work, they'll either (1) turn Flash on and leave it on, and not realize the times when it's making their computer take a dump, or (2) complain about having to click-to-Flash and say 'why do I have to do this all the time, why won't the webpage just load', which goes back to people wanting the option to have Flash on all the time, again not realizing how or when it's going to make their computer go arse up.
I'm sure they could have thought of it but their reasons against Flash are not reducible to the replication mouse input. There are problems with your solution, anyway: hover vs. click; the touch-screen isn't pressure sensitive, so you'd have to rely on a lag to register a click, etc.
Who cares; worthless speculation. How could they 'ban' HTML5 games anyway?
I don't know what your criteria are for 'amazing'. It's like saying 'books are boring because there's no animation and it's just black and white, they should sprinkle some colored typefaces or something entertaining in there, maybe add sound (or just jangle some keys in front of my face)'. The best and most successful websites are the simplest. Look at Google, Wikipedia, Youtube, Twitter, Flickr, Tumblr, Craigslist, eBay: Zero animations, zero music, text-heavy, video is handled by YouTube. But yes, you can't make Flash games without Flash. I still don't see why this is a compelling reason for Apple to change anything.
Of course you don't.
As it's obvious you will use any excuse to justify agreeing with Steve Jobs decision, that is based solely on his personal vendetta of Adobe.
Even here on macrumours I read that html5 is a battery drainer and not efficient.
But im sure you'll dance around that issue as well.
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Actually I've posted lots of reasons for my position, and others with positions differing from mine have done so too (All the points raised by vrDrew, bpaluzzi, and others). I wonder if you could address those, if you don't find them convincing, instead of pulling out this nonsense about Steve Jobs, because it doesn't really make for a good discussion and shows that you are the one without anything substantive to offer. That's not true, is it?
EDIT: Just to hammer home the point, nobody has ever said 'I hold this position because I pledge allegiance to some dude I never met and there's no other possible interpretation for what I am writing'. People state their cases with reasons and examples, so I don't see how questioning people's motivations when there is no evidence to do so is 'good discussion'.
EDIT 2: Battery drain and inefficient? I don't care, because if HTML5 is 'a battery drain and inefficient' that doesn't mean 'use Flash' it means 'write good HTML websites'. Current content in Flash can't be accessed in other ways, fine. I still don't see (besides dumb games) where Flash has to be used for anybody producing new content.
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The only reason Flash can't be as efficient as it could be on Apple devices, is because Apple refused to give adobe access to the API layer that would allow them to use the GPU acceleration.
There is absolutely zero excuse to exclude a worldwide used, still very popular standard from these devices, other than a personal issue.
It does not, never has, and never will be about the needs if us, the end user.
To pretend otherwise, is simply not wanting to criticize the almight Jobs.
And that's when the " guess you should sell your iPad" remarks start.
So you're not going to address what people have actually written, because it's all just pretending anyway; people aren't posting in good faith. I see.
Do you know what petitio principii means? It's a Latin phrase for a failed argument, also known as 'begging the question'. It means that you've been asked to prove something through evidence ('everything people have said about Flash in this thread can be chalked up to adoration for Steve Jobs and there are no possible reasons against it period') but you've simply asserted it as true, without any argument or evidence at all.
Anyway, since you haven't made any argument I'm still not sure why Apple should accomodate Flash at all, since it doesn't hurt them in principle or financially. And consumers like myself are still free to vote with their wallets if we don't like what a product does or doesn't do. You are still upset about Flash though, I hope you get it sorted out.
Let's also be clear about one thing as it's easy to forget.
The iPad, actually is a very low powered and slow device.
Before you shout NO IT'S NOT, IT'S SUPER FAST.
Let me say, yes, it appears nice and quick due to a very small, simple and efficient operating system, many visual tricks to make it seem fast, and good programming.
That does not change the fact that compared to a desktop machine at it's heart is very slow.
Flash was never really made to run on such a slow device, and I know they are trying.
Of course, in time this will change, year after year the iPad, and other tablets will get faster and faster.
So realistically Flash has a better chance of running well as the years more on than it does now.
Of course if it's still around much by then, well, we shall have to wait and see.
The iPad, actually is a very low powered and slow device.
Before you shout NO IT'S NOT, IT'S SUPER FAST.
Let me say, yes, it appears nice and quick due to a very small, simple and efficient operating system, many visual tricks to make it seem fast, and good programming.
That does not change the fact that compared to a desktop machine at it's heart is very slow.
Flash was never really made to run on such a slow device, and I know they are trying.
Of course, in time this will change, year after year the iPad, and other tablets will get faster and faster.
So realistically Flash has a better chance of running well as the years more on than it does now.
Of course if it's still around much by then, well, we shall have to wait and see.