Flash Soon to Hit the iPad?

[vrDrew]

The only reason Flash can't be as efficient as it could be on Apple devices, is because Apple refused to give adobe access to the API layer that would allow them to use the GPU acceleration..

Thats nonsense. Flash is the number one cause of problems on my Vista PC

Don't tell me its Steve Job's fault I see THAT nightmare every other day.

And I'm not the ONLY person who has this problem. From the Adobe Users forums:

In my case I was gaming(poker) I stopped for a meal and parked at the home page of the site (Skypoker) I went to rejoin a table and got the error. When I picked YES the screen went into some sort rapid fast loop, when I picked NO it dumped me out completely from the entire site and closed it. Now I have used this site with no problems at all, I contacted Sky support and he suggested delect temp files, history and reboot--did this no good. I decided to do a complete scan just in case, no better. I then decided to RESTORE by a couple of days, this worked but only the once, when I again left and tried to go back same problem.

What mystifies me is nothing altered or changed on the pc or on the site (they asked me to make sure I had version 10 Adobe Flash).

Yeah - keep telling us how "vital" it is that we have access to crappy poker games that mess up our machines so bad it take a complete restore to get them running again.

 

[Carouser]

The iPad, actually is a very low powered and slow device.
Before you shout NO IT'S NOT, IT'S SUPER FAST.
Let me say, yes, it appears nice and quick due to a very small, simple and efficient operating system, many visual tricks to make it seem fast, and good programming.
That does not change the fact that compared to a desktop machine at it's heart is very slow.
Flash was never really made to run on such a slow device, and I know they are trying.

Or maybe Flash will always be slower than the alternatives so accommodating Flash would just be a waste of that increased processing capability.

 

[henchman]

So you're not going to address what people have actually written, because it's all just pretending anyway; people aren't posting in good faith. I see.

Do you know what petitio principii means? It's a Latin phrase for a failed argument, also known as 'begging the question'. It means that you've been asked to prove something through evidence ('everything people have said about Flash in this thread can be chalked up to adoration for Steve Jobs and there are no possible reasons against it period') but you've simply asserted it as true, without any argument or evidence at all.

Anyway, since you haven't made any argument I'm still not sure why Apple should accomodate Flash at all, since it doesn't hurt them in principle or financially. And consumers like myself are still free to vote with their wallets if we don't like what a product does or doesn't do. You are still upset about Flash though, I hope you get it sorted out.

Your argument again boils down to, don't like it, don't buy it.
Unfortunately, forall those small businesses that can't afford to have their websites redone to suit Jobs dictatorial decision, it's not quite so simple.

And the simple fact is, having it included, switchable by thebuser, hurts no one.
No having it as an option, in fact does.

So, again, rationalize as much as you want.
Therevis zero valid to exclude it, other than a personal vendetta from the top.
I can accept fazing out a standard after a few years, as you can't simply keep being backwards compatible. Apple did I with old 68k based machines, and now they're doing it with PowerPC based machines.

But this Flash issue is completely devoid of any sense at all.

 

[henchman]

Thats nonsense. Flash is the number one cause of problems on my Vista PC

Image

Don't tell me its Steve Job's fault I see THAT nightmare every other day.

And I'm not the ONLY person who has this problem. From the Adobe Users forums:



Yeah - keep telling us how "vital" it is that we have access to crappy poker games that mess up our machines so bad it take a complete restore to get them running again.

So, now he can switch to Mac os. Or andip ad, and not play at all.

 

[henchman]

Or maybe Flash will always be slower than the alternatives so accommodating Flash would just be a waste of that increased processing capability.

Maybe. Coulda, shoulda.
Not very factual really.

 

[Piggie]

Or maybe Flash will always be slower than the alternatives so accommodating Flash would just be a waste of that increased processing capability.

Well we shall see.

All I know is that if something better than Flash came out that was open for everyone to use.
Produced better results than Flash, was just as easy of easier to code in, ran quicker, and could do everything that Flash can do.
Then I'd fully expect everyone, other than Adobe to be going nuts over it, and really excited about it, what it can do and using it to create new things with.
Unless I'm mistaken we don't have anything that replaces Flash in these ways.
And that seems to be the problem, from what I've read HTML5 is not a Flash replacement. So we are still left waiting.

 

[cube]

It is very annoying that the iPad has no Flash.

And I'm not buying an iPhone without Java.

And no Lion without install DVD.

And I'll hold on as long as possible to my MBP with removable battery and ExpressCard.

 

[Carouser]

Your argument again boils down to, don't like it, don't buy it.

Correct. I respect that people would like to see Flash. I see no good arguments why Apple should include it, besides 'goodwill towards the end user' which ignores the negative externalities of Flash.

Unfortunately, forall those small businesses that can't afford to have their websites redone to suit Jobs dictatorial decision, it's not quite so simple.

What? A private company is not allowed to make its own decisions about what their products can and can't do within the bounds of safety and competition? Perhaps you would like this legislated?

And the simple fact is, having it included, switchable by thebuser, hurts no one.

Actually, I made an argument about this on the last page.

Maybe. Coulda, shoulda.
Not very factual really.

I was responding to a hypothetical situation about the future.

All I know is that if something better than Flash came out that was open for everyone to use.
Produced better results than Flash, was just as easy of easier to code in, ran quicker, and could do everything that Flash can do.

Tell me the important things done in Flash that can't be done in HTML5.

 

[vrDrew]

So, now he can switch to Mac os. Or andip ad, and not play at all.

But the problem is, its NOT JUST the poker site that causes this problem. Its a sizeable percentage of the sites that use Flash.

Flash is like an IED: You simply never know when its going to blow up on you. If you venture into a site you've not been to before, you've got to watch like a hawk for the telltale signs thats its starting to load a Flash script that is going to freeze your computer. If you're lucky - thats the worst thing that can happen. If you aren't lucky (or if you exercise questionable judgement about the sort of site you visit...) you'll end up with Malware. Its happened to me (resulting sometimes in literaly hours of work to fix) - and I'll bet its happened to a LOT of other users.

Tell me again why you want Apple to enable Flash - and that sort of issue - on the iPad?

 

[henchman]

Tell me again why you want Apple to enable Flash - and that sort of issue - on the iPad?

So I can access sites I can't currently.
Like this one, to manage an account:

http://www.arrowheadwater.com/

 

[henchman]

Tell me the important things done in Flash that can't be done in HTML5.

Important? Or just things YOU deem important.

 

[Carouser]

Important? Or just things YOU deem important.

Whatever, I'm genuinely curious what people think Flash and only Flash offers, and why they feel that is so indispensable.

And yes, it is clear that Flash-based websites can't be accessed by iOS. Listing them is not in itself an argument for why Apple has some obligation to have a Flash option in Safari. Web content providers are free to choose their medium, consumers are free to choose both what websites they visit and the devices they visit them on.

Also, it would be super-cool to have a discussion with someone who responded to the major points that others are posting instead of grabbing at low-hanging fruit and perpetually ignoring the rest.

 

[cube]

Consumers are not free to choose websites and devices.

 

[henchman]

Whatever, I'm genuinely curious what people think Flash and only Flash offers, and why they feel that is so indispensable.

And yes, it is clear that Flash-based websites can't be accessed by iOS. Listing them is not in itself an argument for why Apple has some obligation to have a Flash option in Safari. Web content providers are free to choose their medium, consumers are free to choose both what websites they visit and the devices they visit them on.

Also, it would be super-cool to have a discussion with someone who responded to the major points that others are posting instead of grabbing at low-hanging fruit and perpetually ignoring the rest.

So wantingbto access websites that are coded in flash is low hanging fruit.
The fact that less 1% of today's website are fully html5 compatible is more than enough reason, as to why Flash should be on iOS.

so, to answer your question.

Accessing websites is indispensable.


http://avtechnologyonline.com/blogArticle.aspx?id=55066

 

[bpaluzzi]

Consumers are not free to choose websites and devices.

ON what planet?

 

[vrDrew]

So I can access sites I can't currently.
Like this one, to manage an account:

http://www.arrowheadwater.com/

Utterly unconvincing.

95% of the arrowheadwater.com site was perfectly accessible on my iPad. I could see if the water was available, etc. etc.

And if, for whatever reason, I desperately needed to "manage" my water delivery account (Do you really mean to tell me you spend a lot of time each month "managing" the number of bottles of water you have delivered?) I could either: a) Use a PC or b) pick up the phone and call them.

I see the 30 seconds Flash saves you "managing" your water delivery. And raise you the hour or two each month I spend fixing problems, hangs, crashes, and malware caused by Flash.

 

[Carouser]

So wantingbto access websites that are coded in flash is low hanging fruit.

No, ignoring everything else posted in the thread is going the easy route. 'I want to access websites coded in Flash therefore Apple should have a Flash option in iOS' is not a very compelling argument.

The fact that less 1% of today's website are fully html5 compatible is more than enough reason, as to why Flash should be on iOS.

No, it's a compelling reason for making websites in basic HTML, accessible as broadly as possible, whatever the variations of the end-user's device, and ignoring marginal options.

so, to answer your question.

Accessing websites is indispensable.

You misunderstand the question. I'm producing a website. What will Flash let me do that other options won't, and why is this important?

 

[cube]

ON what planet?

This closed platforms planet.

 

[byke]

I would like to see a flash to HTML 5 server side conversion surplied by adobe and allowed to offer an extension for it in mobile safari.

This way adobe still hold onto brand supply, and consumers get something they can use.

 

[fertilized-egg]

The only reason Flash can't be as efficient as it could be on Apple devices, is because Apple refused to give adobe access to the API layer that would allow them to use the GPU acceleration.

I have two mobile devices that are supposedly (from what others tell me on the internet) pretty good with Flash: An Android phone and the RIM PlayBook. My experience has been pretty terrible with both in terms of running Flash. And let me remind you that RIM claimed they have been working "for years" with Adobe to optimize Flash on the PlayBook. It's usable for watching videos but that's about it and that's the function that could very easily be replaced by HTML5 for mobile.

 

[Matthew9559]

I have only run across a handful of sites I could not access properly without flash for my use on iOS since the origina iPhone launched. That's pretty good for me. Most the flash on the websites that I visit are ads...

 

[henchman]

No, it's a compelling reason for making websites in basic HTML, accessible as broadly as possible, whatever the variations of the end-user's device, and ignoring marginal options.



You misunderstand the question. I'm producing a website. What will Flash let me do that other options won't, and why is this important?

And you misunderstand the problem.

I am not disagreeing about moving to a more open, better standard.
I am disagreeing with how Jobs is going about it. Prohibiting access to information on a lot of sites.

 

[doug in albq]

BUT HOW THE HELL IS CLUB PENGUIN GOING TO WORK WITHOUT FLASH!!!

guess y'all are too young or busy for children.....

which hi-lights the idea that you all do not hit up flash-heavy sites because none of you are (young) children, nor do you have any young children of your own.

BTW, Club Penguin has over 12 MILLION user accounts....never heard of it?

 

[henchman]

BUT HOW THE HELL IS CLUB PENGUIN GOING TO WORK WITHOUT FLASH!!!

guess y'all are too young or busy for children.....

which hi-lights the idea that you all do not hit up flash-heavy sites because none of you are (young) children, nor do you have any young children of your own.

BTW, Club Penguin has over 12 MILLION user accounts....never heard of it?

Exactly.
There are a ton of those sites for kids.

 

[henchman]

And regarding html5 this post interesting as well:

The problem is tha Apple don't want to / cba to implement full HTML5 into the mobile Safari, maybe because of battery. The only 'support' for HTML 5 is the ability to play QuickTime.]