Flight Attendants Union Challenges FAA Decision Allowing Passengers to Use Electronics in All Phases of Flight

[elvisimprsntr]

So do I, and your argument is ridiculous.

1) Magazines and books are distractions as well. Going to ban those also? This is a ridiculous argument.

2) Cellphones and aviation equipment work on different frequencies. Unless someone pulls a jammer out of their backpack, or you're flying a plane built in 1949, there's going to be absolutely no interference. As a pilot, I regularly forget to put my phone in airplane mode. Absolutely no impact, other than to my battery life. We even use iPads throughout the flight.

3) Again, see every other loose object in the aircraft. I'd much rather be hit by an iPhone than a large book.

I may not log as many hours as you, but I do accumulate over 1000 hours/year on a 747-SP.
1. books do not have headphones which interfere with crew briefings.
2. FACT: cell phones interfere with communication gear on the aircraft.
3. books do not contain Li-Ion batteries which can become a flammable/smoke hazard if damaged when some 5 yo drops it and is slides down the isle. Please explain to me, as a crew member, why I am specifically trained to combat a Li-Ion fire onboard an aircraft?

 

[mk_in_mke]

I stopped listening to...

... The flights attendant when they starting selling us credit cards...

 

[ndpitch]

When a huge aluminum tube crashes at 180 miles per hour, EVERYTHING inside it is a friggin' dangerous projectile. Not the best argument in terms of it being a "safety concern".

 

[teslo]

i actually flew today. know what annoyed me more than hitting the 'airplane' mode on my phone? EVERYTHING ELSE.

how about letting people with connecting flights or no carry-on off first? i travel light. so do a lot of people. let me zoom past all you plebs with your 2 massive bags overhead. you won't even see me, i'll be a colorless blur.

 

[mk_in_mke]

I may not log as many hours as you, but I do accumulate over 1000 hours/year on a 747-SP.
1. books do not have headphones which interfere with crew briefings.
2. FACT: cell phones interfere with communication gear on the aircraft.
3. books do not contain Li-Ion batteries which can become a flammable/smoke hazard if damaged when some 5 yo drops it and is slides down the isle. Please explain to me, as a crew member, why I am specifically trained to combat a Li-Ion fire onboard an aircraft?

Some people see the glass half full, you see it half empty... The fact that you are trained to combat a li-ion, well, who cares?

 

[tigress666]

The airlines are subject to government regulations. the FAA is part of the government. The airlines need to accommodate the regulation the government has set.

Besides, as soon as I get the PPL, I can rent any plane I'd like that I am certified for.

Your move.

BL.

Ok, the FAA said people are allowed to. They didn't say airlines had to allow people to. Just that the FAA isn't stopping people from doing so. In fact I think this article points out the FAA explicitly said airlines are allowed to make their own rules. This ruling isn't the FAA telling airlines they have to let people use their gadgets on take off and landing, it's just saying airlines can let people use those on take off and landings if the airline wishes. Before, it was not up to the airline, the FAA was saying it was not allowed period.

 

[magicvash]

14 CFR 91.519

It's federal law. They are required to brief everyone unless the pilot in command decides that passengers are already aware of the contents of the briefing. Flight attendants and the airline cannot make that determination. The briefing cards may supplement but may not replace the oral briefing.

Quit bitching. Just let them do their job, and take 2 minutes away from playing candy crush and listen to them. It's called courtesy.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

Some people see the glass half full, you see it half empty... The fact that you are trained to combat a li-ion, well, who cares?

People who work in the industry are entitled to their informed opinion. Those who don't need to S>T>F>U!

 

[brdeveloper]

This doesn't even make sense... Few really listened to the safety briefing anyway. Many people read a magazine or even SkyMall. Device or not if you want to pay attention you can. If you don't want to listen you're not going to.

What about the point of "dangerous projectiles"?

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This is so stupid. They don't want to allow electronics because they could become projectiles. Great. What about people who are allowed to carry babies on their lap, and regular books? I fly frequently and if they go back to not allowing iPads on takeoff and landing I'll be sure to unpack a full King James bible or a full unabridged dictionary to "read" on takeoff and landing, since technically they're legal.

Well, imagine something like 100 tablets flying in an unexpected turbulence event. Now imagine 90 magazines, a couple of bibles and a baby flying around (this is weird to imagine... and also taking into account that parents hold a baby tighter than a tablet). I think the first scenario is more dangerous.

 

[tigress666]

i actually flew today. know what annoyed me more than hitting the 'airplane' mode on my phone? EVERYTHING ELSE.

how about letting people with connecting flights or no carry-on off first? i travel light. so do a lot of people. let me zoom past all you plebs with your 2 massive bags overhead. you won't even see me, i'll be a colorless blur.

Best suggestion yet in this thread.

(And I personally like that I can use my gadgets when taking off and landing and do find it annoying).

 

[seanjs]

This makes zero sense. The FAA now allows the devices, but that doesn't mean the airlines have to allow them. The union should take it up with the airlines for whose employees they represent and each airline can make their own policy in accordance with what they think is best for the customer and their employees.

 

[brdeveloper]

Last time I flew, they still asked us to stop listening to music and watching videos during the safety announcement at least. For me it really makes a difference to be able to use them during takeoff and landing, since I could never ever watch a whole typical 2 hour movie over a 2 hour flight, while now I can. If you fly a lot, it's great to be able to watch full movies since flying gets boring very fast, and listening to music is quite painful unless you have noise cancelling headphones.

This is perhaps the stupidiest argument I seen on this topic. So buy TV Series!

 

[IbisDoc]

What a terrible load of tripe. The fact that they ask for medical assistance is because their training is not about how to be a G but about how to safely get 200+ people off an aircraft in the minimum time possible. One of the basic things that delays many people when disembarking in an emergency is that in the panic people forget hpw to undo their safety belts.

I am also not sure who you fly with but the FAs provide a valuable service in addition to their safety responsibilities. Apart from the food and beverage service they probably provide most assistance to those people who do not fly very often. Personally I don't need assistance to find my seat (I know that economy/coach in a 767 starts at row 24 and on a 737 starts at row 4) but for many people who fly maybe once or twice a year it isn't all intuitive.

You and I agree. Stewardesses make excellent ushers. Row 24 is a tricky row. There is room for common ground after all!

 

[CFreymarc]

Hopefully the union wins. Don't need a bunch of people around me yapping on their phones.

Unions are very good at:

1) keeping the status quo
2) charging more money for monopolized labor
3) beating down new ideas and,
4) acting like victims when the market makes them obsolete

 

[alphaod]

Good luck getting the flight attendants themselves to stop playing with their electronic devices during all phases of the flight.

 

[a0me]

Couldn't my device still become a "dangerous projectile" even if it were turned off?

That argument really didn't make any sense. I could think of at least 50 other things on a plane that could become a "dangerous projectile."

 

[bigpoppamac31]

Out of interest do you read a magazine during the ascent/descent portions of a flight - how is that any different to reading a magazine on a mobile device or clearing some emails on an iPad?

And it isn't a few minutes. I used to regularly fly Sydney - Melbourne - about 90 minutes in theory of which 60 minutes was in the air. On take off the seat beltsign would go off after about 8 minutes. That was the trigger for being allowed to turn on electronic devices. On descent though the seatbelt sign would go one with up to 30 minutes to go before landing. So over 50% of the flight is non-electronic devices.

On descent there is no argument that you need to pay attention to a safety briefing - it is just dead time.

Personally I follow the standards set by the pilots I know and I watched the safety briefing on every flight - even on fligths on the same actual aircraft at the same time of day in the same seat.

Well I've only flown on a plane a couple of times. But no I don't read during those take off and landing times. My point is that we seem to be so obsessed with our devices that we can't even bother to put them down for a bit of time here and there. I feel so bad for the coming generation who are essentially born with "smart phones" and tablets in there hands. I'm glad I was born in the 80's when we didn't even have cell phones yet or were just beginning to come out by the end of the decade. I didn't even have a computer in the house until I was about 14 years old. Yes cell phones are useful in many ways but they're also a great distraction.

 

[vigorblade]

How many times do we have to listen to the safety brief? do they think we are stupid and didn't listen the first few times we flew?

You have to consider that many people may be flying for the first time ever in their lives or are like me and are rarely on a plane (I was on a flight maybe 3 years ago and before that it was over 13 years since flying). So it is very important to repeat safety instructions on every flight, not everyone is always on planes and know or remember that "possible life saving" stuff.

 

[Gasu E.]

This is so stupid. They don't want to allow electronics because they could become projectiles. Great. What about people who are allowed to carry babies on their lap, and regular books?

I agree. I was on a flight recently where several people threw babies at the heads of the flight attendants. It was utter chaos!

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

This doesn't even make sense... Few really listened to the safety briefing anyway. Many people read a magazine or even SkyMall. Device or not if you want to pay attention you can. If you don't want to listen you're not going to.

"Welcome aboard flight 666 to Hades. It is under the command of Captain Satan, and First Officer Lucifer. The flying time is approximately 2 hours and 67 minutes, and the weather there is hot.

"We're here to make sure that you understand the safety features of this Boeing 797 aircraft, so please listen, and read along the safety card in the seat pocket in front of you.

"For those of you that have not been in an automobile in the last 50 years, we applaud you on your making it to the airport on foot, so here is how to put the seatbelt on. Put the tongue in the latch. Don't tie two tongues or two latches together. It just doesn't work that way.

"The doors are closed, so that means that you have to put all of your electronics in the flight or airplane mode. Airplane mode does not mean that you can continue to talk on it until the nose gear has lifted off the ground. It means, go to settings, and put it in airplane mode. Now.

"No part of this aircraft can be tampered with or disabled, especially the smoke detectors in the bathrooms. Why we don't have these handy devices all over the aircraft is beyond me, or why we have the smoke detectors in plain view, but anyways, don't mess with them. Or any other part of the aircraft. It's not meant to be messed with in flight. You don't fix your car while it is traveling 540mph, and we don't expect you to fix this airplane when it is traveling that fast, either.

"There are 8 exits that you can get to in the case of an emergency. The flight deck has one as well, and there are two cargo doors that can be used, too. Anyways, if you're by a door, and the airplane crashes, open it and help people get out. If there is a fire in front of the door, use the door on the other side of the airplane. duh.

"In the event of a water landing. Why it's not called a "watering" is beyond me, but regardless, should we land on water, the best advice is get out, quickly. Leave your crap behind, because the other people on the airplane will just throw it over the life rafts anyway. There are life preservers somewhere on your seat that you should inflate AFTER getting off the aircraft. If you want to see something really silly, imagine an airplane going underwater with 238 people on board that can't move because all of their life preservers were inflated. Get off the plane, then inflate. Oh yeah, we can do a really awkward manual blow up thingy, but it looks like the scene in Airplane! where the autopilot deflates. It just looks, well, better when the women simulate that.

"Oxygen masks... If you're not freaked out enough with all of the horrible things that can beset this aircraft, we can lose the microscopic pressure we'll be at, and oxygen masks will drop from the ceiling. Make sure that you put on your own mask first, then assist others. The reason for this is you can't help others when you're asphyxiated. The script tells me that you're supposed to breath normally, but really, if this event happens and you can breathe normally, you're a better person than I am.

"OK, put your trays up and your seat back in the upright position, and federal laws require that you obey all lighted signs, even though you'll think that the captain has turned off the "fasten seat belt" light when we get to 10,000 feet, but that's an audio signal, not a light. The light will still tell you to keep your seat belt fastened until your bladder is about to burst. Then he'll turn it off for 15 seconds until that normal jostle of the aircraft has him freaked out for the next 500 miles, and he'll turn it back on.

"Sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight!"

For those of you that are flight attendants, that was from memory.

 

[kdarling]

2) Cellphones and aviation equipment work on different frequencies. Unless someone pulls a jammer out of their backpack, or you're flying a plane built in 1949, there's going to be absolutely no interference.

Even modern glass displays can be susceptible to interference.

FAA orders cockpit display replacements after Wi-Fi concerns

Boeing actually discovered this by accident a few years back. They were certifying an aircraft WiFi network when the pilot and copilot displays went blank, due to interference when the WiFi signal ramped up with more users.

Over the years, airline pilots have also reported multiple cases of autopilot and navigation interference that stopped when they made someone turn off their cell phone. You can check the NASA ASRS reports.

As long as aircraft antenna and control wires run under the passenger cabin, there's a possibility of interference. Non-pilots think that as long as it doesn't physically bring down the plane, interference is okay. As any pilot knows, direct effects are not the problem. It's the distraction to the pilot during critical phases of flight (takeoff & landing) that can be lethal.

 

[Gasu E.]

What about the point of "dangerous projectiles"?

----------



Well, imagine something like 100 tablets flying in an unexpected turbulence event. Now imagine 90 magazines, a couple of bibles and a baby flying around (this is weird to imagine... and also taking into account that parents hold a baby tighter than a tablet). I think the first scenario is more dangerous.

Even more dangerous during an unexpected turbulence event would be an old lady, a cow, two men rowing a boat, a woman riding a bicycle and a witch on a broomstick. Why aren't those banned?

Seriously, unexpected turbulence events never take place during takeoff and landing, which is when tablet use gets banned. Tablet use has always been allowed during flight, which is where turbulence happens. Babies, however, are allowed during all phases of the flight.

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

People who work in the industry are entitled to their informed opinion. Those who don't need to S>T>F>U!

So, only those that are in the Flight Attendants Union get to have a say?

----------

Even modern glass displays can be susceptible to interference.

FAA orders cockpit display replacements after Wi-Fi concerns

Boeing actually discovered this by accident a few years back. They were certifying an aircraft WiFi network when the pilot and copilot displays went blank, due to interference when the WiFi signal ramped up with more users.

Over the years, airline pilots have also reported multiple cases of autopilot and navigation interference that stopped when they made someone turn off their cell phone. You can check the NASA ASRS reports.

As long as aircraft antenna and control wires run under the passenger cabin, there's a possibility of interference. Non-pilots think that as long as it doesn't bring down the plane, interference is okay. As any pilot knows, that's not the problem. It's that even minor pilot distractions during critical phases of flight can be lethal.

Amen, brother. Amen.

 

[LessO2]

......."Sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight!"

For those of you that are flight attendants, that was from memory.

"For those of you who insist on taking selfies and posting to social media, kindly do so after evacuating the aircraft."

"By the way, does anyone know how to fly a plane?"

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

Seriously, unexpected turbulence events never take place during takeoff and landing, which is when tablet use gets banned. Tablet use has always been allowed during flight, which is where turbulence happens. Babies, however, are allowed during all phases of the flight.

Are all those expected, or they never happen?

(sorry, the "unexpected" and "never happen" made me chuckle... "But... it was unexpected!" - and I'm writing this tongue in cheek...)