Flip Flopping between macOS and Windows

[LiE_]

I am very eager to see how you proceed.

I won't be for sometime, I've already spent far too much! I may as decide I can't be bothered since the cooler on the 3090 FE is really good and my CPU is already cooled by an AIO.

I'd probably only do it if I fancied a project. Custom loops once in make it harder to swap and change any components.

 

[AdamNC]

I ended up with a going with the MBA. So far it has been flawless. Very smooth and fast.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

I won't be for sometime, I've already spent far too much! I may as decide I can't be bothered since the cooler on the 3090 FE is really good and my CPU is already cooled by an AIO.

I'd probably only do it if I fancied a project. Custom loops once in make it harder to swap and change any components.

You'd have to buy a new GPU water block minimally each time for a different PCB configuration. If you stick to soft tubing you could just swap out the GPU board; the radiator, fans, reservoir and pump could remain intact.

Hard tubing would require major surgery.

 

[LiE_]

You'd have to buy a new GPU water block minimally each time for a different PCB configuration. If you stick to soft tubing you could just swap out the GPU board; the radiator, fans, reservoir and pump could remain intact.

Hard tubing would require major surgery.

Oh yea I know, I've done a custom loop before.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

Impressive!

If I'm not mistaken, those look like EKWB components. Would you describe your experience with their products satisfactory? Or is there someone else better? I've looked at Alphacool, EKWB, hardwarelabs, and a handful of others.

Alphacool's shipping charges to this side of the pond are hefty. I've seen a lot of criticism about EKWB being overpriced for what you get but if they have better stock availability of components and the shipping charges are more moderate that might be a better overall way to go for me.

I have read a few articles about custom loops including this one:

The Mirror Maze PC: Building an Ultra-Quiet, Liquid-Cooled PC to Get Lost In

Get lost in a silent labyrinth of mirrors, nickel and chrome.

www.tomshardware.com

That author actually mentioned a few things he should have done. A lot of tutorials often don't tell you what NOT to do. They also omit WHY something is done. This isn't specific to PC build guides. A lot of food recipes similarly do not offer any reasoning or pitfalls to avoid.

If you have any specific advice to offer (including recommended learning resources) I'm all ears! I'm particularly open to written tutorials with lots of photographs. I avoid vloggers in general, most of it is simply not worth the time.

 

[kamikazeeMC]

One day I'll try out a custom loop. The last build I intended to, with buying a Corsair 900D case. Got lazy..

 

[maflynn]

One day I'll try out a custom loop. The last build I intended to, with buying a Corsair 900D case. Got lazy..

I'm tempted, but also, though, if I were ever to do it, I'd probably start off in an ATX case, not jump right in on an ITX case like my last build

 

[LiE_]

Impressive!

If I'm not mistaken, those look like EKWB components. Would you describe your experience with their products satisfactory? Or is there someone else better? I've looked at Alphacool, EKWB, hardwarelabs, and a handful of others.

Alphacool's shipping charges to this side of the pond are hefty. I've seen a lot of criticism about EKWB being overpriced for what you get but if they have better stock availability of components and the shipping charges are more moderate that might be a better overall way to go for me.

I have read a few articles about custom loops including this one:

The Mirror Maze PC: Building an Ultra-Quiet, Liquid-Cooled PC to Get Lost In

Get lost in a silent labyrinth of mirrors, nickel and chrome.

www.tomshardware.com

That author actually mentioned a few things he should have done. A lot of tutorials often don't tell you what NOT to do. They also omit WHY something is done. This isn't specific to PC build guides. A lot of food recipes similarly do not offer any reasoning or pitfalls to avoid.

If you have any specific advice to offer (including recommended learning resources) I'm all ears! I'm particularly open to written tutorials with lots of photographs. I avoid vloggers in general, most of it is simply not worth the time.

Personally I went with EKWB because they offered the a good variety of parts and guides to use their components. I had no issues. Their pump/res combos are really good and versatile.

The hardest part of water-cooling is planning the runs. Once you have that figured out then it's not too bad. Buying a few extra fittings like extenders and angled fittings will be a life saver. Crossflow raidators are really good at keeping things nice a tidy, have a look into those.

Lastly make sure you have a drain port at the lowest part of the loop, using a t-off and tap fitting. This will allow easy drainage.

I would also pick a case that is easy to work in for the first custom loop.

You can see my full build log here, https://www.overclockers.co.uk/foru...om-loop-in-a-define-7.18880132/#post-34110578

 

[Erehy Dobon]

Thank you for the tips and the link to the Overclockers UK discussion.

If you can, I'd love to hear your comments on my flowchart for my Plan A, custom cooling both the CPU and GPU in the same loop:

It appears to be quite similar to what you set up last spring.

My thought is that since the GPU is dumping the most heat into the cooling loop, the hot output water should go directly to the larger radiator.

Right now I am using two rather ordinary EVGA AIO CLC liquid coolers

• Ryzen 5 5600X (65W TDP, 120mm AIO): idle 35 °C / fan 675 rpm, max 68 °C / fan 1300 rpm (CPU-Z stress test, CPU peaking at 105W PPT)
• Nvidia GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER Founders Edition (215W TDP, 240mm AIO): idle 24 °C / fan 860 rpm, max 43 °C / 1215 rpm (Unigine Heaven loop with 8% OC, card peaking at 236W)

which are capably specced to handle their respective cooling duties. In practice, the CPU hovers around 55 °C during gaming.

I'm not going to cool the chipset. It doesn't need it.

I'd set up one fan curve for all three radiator fans (Noctua F12s) based on a thermal sensor from the GPU output water. I'd probably set the minimum fan speed a little higher to make sure the CPU doesn't dump too much warmer water into the GPU's cooling block.

My plan would be to do this initially in a mid-tower ATX case, specifically my Lian-Li Lancool II Mesh Performance which is super easy to work in:

Lian Li Lancool II Mesh Performance Review: What a Winner Looks Like

A great chassis for continuously changing builds

www.tomshardware.com

and then hopefully move the custom cooling loop assembly into the much tighter confines of an NZXT H210.

NZXT H210i Review

NZXT managed to put itself on the map with the H-Series of enclosures and is now aiming to use that momentum by offering a refresh of its iconic cases. The H210i is the most compact member of the family intended for ITX motherboards.

www.techpowerup.com

Plan B would be to keep the CPU with its dedicated AIO CLC radiator and just run the output of the custom loop reservoir directly to the GPU.

At some point I'd like to upgrade my GPU to a 3080 or 3080 Ti but that's a considerable jump up in GPU card TDP (320W+). I need to investigate very carefully if a 240mm radiator can handle that because I can't squeeze anything larger into the H210 case.

If I upgraded to a 3070 (220W TDP) or 3070 Ti, the 240mm rad should be able to handle the extra 5W of TDP.

[Follow up 21 March 2021: I just spent the past two hours tabulating EKWB parts for a GPU-only non-RGB custom cooling loop and the subtotal for the GPU water block, backplate, res/pump combo, and radiator is approaching $400. That doesn't include fittings and tubing. That's almost the MSRP of my 2070 SUPER FE. Spending that coin on a custom cooling loop could be taken into consideration for a 3090 or maybe the upcoming 3080 Ti but it really doesn't make sense for a $500 MSRP graphics card. I'll ponder this some more but I will likely table this project until I get my hands an xx80 Ti or xx90 class GeForce GPU. I would seriously consider trying this out on a 3090 FE though.]

 

[Erehy Dobon]

I stumbled upon this EKWB article:

Radiators Part 2 – Performance - ekwb.com

The fundamental rule of radiator performance testing is to see how well the radiator cools the coolant. For us, computer geeks, the most widespread way of describing radiator performance is by using W/10°C, or in other words, Watts per 10 Delta T (sometimes K is used instead of ΔT). To make it...

www.ekwb.com

and maybe I can get by using a 240mm XE radiator (their thickest one) on a 3090.

Both the Lian-Li and H210 cases have plenty of front radiator clearance for the thick model. Radiator fan noise would be a factor.

 

[LiE_]

Your proposed layout looks good. I wouldn't worry over the order of components in terms of thermal performance.

240 + 120 should also be fine, Ali from Optimum tech is able to run a 5950x and 3080 on a single 280.

Yep as you've seen it is a costly thing, it's hard to justify if you don't have a clear motivation for it. My AIO keeps my CPU very cool and the 3090FE has a fantastic cooler (excluding VRAM) so will be in passive cooling mode the majority of the time.

 

[maflynn]

Ali from Optimum tech i

I saw his build video on this machine and it was that video that made me realize that as cool as using a custom loop would be, its definitely out of my league to try this on an ITX case.

 

[LiE_]

I saw his build video on this machine and it was that video that made me realize that as cool as using a custom loop would be, its definitely out of my league to try this on an ITX case.

ITX custom loops are awesome, but yes they are a bit masochistic.


My chonky boi arrived.

 

[Queen6]

Sorry I'm out, this thread was supposed to be about macOs versus Windows, not PC hardware builds. @maflynn YOU might want to think on that and post a dedicated thread...

Q-6

 

[lcseds]

Agreed. Went waaay off the tracks. I don't click on an interesting sounding thread to read unrelated material. Waste of my time. Start a new thread instead of hijacking.

 

[rezenclowd3]

Much of the reason from me flipping after running PSPs and School District IT manager was that I can build what I want, and add with PCI E cards.

It is rare for a mac to be great at video editing, even rarer to support processor changes. I couldn't buy a Mac with 6 10tb hdds, 4 santa ssds, 2 nvme ssds, 3090 rtx, 16 core processor, raid card, dual gbe, 10gbe and still have 2 360 radiators.

Buy what fits for your job, but I am done with Apple and thier hw path, and the poor finder experience.

 

[MBAir2010]

i like the enthusiasm computer builders are posting there, these builds are fascinating!
now windows ?, will a new ssd say western Digital improve my Dell XPS speed?
im upgrading for extra space on the Dell xps instead of investing in the macbook air.
Im getting tired of 's narrow path and limit on their products lifespan and support.

 

[rezenclowd3]

i like the enthusiasm computer builders are posting there, these bolts are fascinating!
now windows ?, will a new ssd say western Digital improve my Dell XPS speed?
im upgrading for extra space on the Dell xps instead of investing in the macbook air.

You don't give enough information at all...

 

[MBAir2010]

You don't give enough information at all...

sorry i should know better
2019 Dell xps, 9380 13" original256 GB ssd to WD Blue SN550 NVMe SSD 500GB.
the laptop is fast responsive, but sometimes the fan goes on while streaming sports to a HDTV via cable-dongle, which i can live with0 the laptop never gets hot.
WD claims the drive will speed up anything.

 

[rezenclowd3]

MtLoin2020:

Because the fan spins, you want a faster ssd? You already have an NVME or SATA SSD (the specs don't say which the 256GB is), and non-upgradeable RAM. I don't think you will notice, especially as what you are doing is taxing either the iGPU or dGPU more which is not upgradeable, along with potentially the DL speed you pay for from your ISP, and your local home/business network if it not sufficient (IE say you have Wireless G instead of N or AC).

9380 Laptop Specs/Service

 

[MBAir2010]

Picked up an XPS desktop at Costco this week for super cheap, spent $300 making it into a beast of machine, took the Radeon RX 580 out of the Sonnet EGPU I was using for my MBP and put it into the XPS 9830. The performance is insane. Windows 10 is instant, smooth, no lag.

Huh, you whated the what?
oh XPS 9830- mine is a XPS 9380
i read the forums from post one back in 2019 and these were excellent observations,
i guess im happy with using both systems today!

 

[MBAir2010]

Because the fan spins, you want a faster ssd? I don't think you will notice, especially as what you are doing is taxing either the iGPU or dGPU more which is not upgradeable.

i was just wondering if this will speed up an already fast laptop, and how?
my main objective is more GB space, i really dont care if things get computed faster.
all that meGPU and ohGPU never made any sense to me, i just want the thing to work!
and if this is a good replacement, or will an EVO work better?
this would be my first windows upgrade since 1997 on a compacq desktop.

 

[rezenclowd3]

Well, if you want more space, yes get an nvme SSD. Most people won't be able to tell a difference between brands. Ars technica and anandtech both do review comparisons and state which drives work better for which workloads.

A gpu is a graphics processor, just like you have your main processor. Graphics require different math instructions, so gpus are typically better at graphics tasks (doesn't need to be gaming graphics) iGPU (integrated on CPU die) is typically inferior to dGPU (dedicated on PCIE lanes)

dGPUs will be best for driving multiple displays as well, and can handle higher resolutions better, or drive even more displays....

 

[MBAir2010]

Well, if you want more space, yes get an nvme SSD.

thank you very much!

 

[LiE_]

Sorry I'm out, this thread was supposed to be about macOs versus Windows, not PC hardware builds. @maflynn YOU might want to think on that and post a dedicated thread...

Q-6

Agreed. Went waaay off the tracks. I don't click on an interesting sounding thread to read unrelated material. Waste of my time. Start a new thread instead of hijacking.

When I created this thread it was to talk about my personal struggles with choosing to stick with Apple or going outside the walled garden. Overtime as I moved from various systems I used this thread to document my journey, including the PCs I built. I think naturally as I posted the hardware choices and builds that I decided to go with, other enthusiasts used those as jump off points to talk in more detail about PC build specifics. I agree it would be useful to have a separate thread where we can discuss PC builds and hardware and keep this thread focused.


To that end, let me give an update on my journey. Last time I posted an update I said I would be using my current PC as a pure gaming PC when I eventually get an iMac. My position was that I would want to remain almost entirely within the walled garden but still have access to a high end PC to play games. This has changed over the last few weeks, I'm now all in on Windows/Google. Let me explain.

I've said before that my work is best served by a PC and this an important point in my decision. I already have a very capable PC so buying the new iMac when it's released would be a waste. When I decided to go all in on life outside Apple I poured some more funds into this build as I'll no longer be buying an iMac. This meant, as you can see, a 3090FE and also the Alienware 38" ultrawide monitor. This setup is stunning and I am very happy.

For a long time I was 100% convinced that I could only use macOS because I wanted a retina screen for my full time use. However over time I seem to have adjusted to the 1:1 pixel mapping of Windows non-retina screens and for many things I actually prefer it. I had the pleasure of using a 4K 27" gaming monitor for a week and I ran that at 150% scaling which gave supposedly better looking text, but I found I missed the way a non-retina screen rendered things. 150% scaling just looked just a little soft and my eyes weren't happy. The only app that looks terrible with font rendering on Windows is Outlook, but I've gotten round this by using the PWA version which use browser font rendering, much nicer.

Outside of the PC I noticed myself using more and more of Google's services and so I moved from iPhone 12 to Pixel 5. I prefer using native apps from Google like Photos, Calendar and Chrome. I've also ditched my Apple TV 4K in the living room for the new Chromecast with Google TV, my wife is very happy as she has been fully Google ever since I originally convinced her to switch to a Pixel 2. She really hated the Apple TV remote.

So for now I am very content. My roots have always been in Windows and building PCs and it feels right to continue this way as it's as much a hobby as it is a tool I need for work. It will be interesting to see how I feel when the new iMacs drop as that has always been the machine I thought I would end up with.