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When I created this thread it was to talk about my personal struggles with choosing to stick with Apple or going outside the walled garden. Overtime as I moved from various systems I used this thread to document my journey, including the PCs I built. I think naturally as I posted the hardware choices and builds that I decided to go with, other enthusiasts used those as jump off points to talk in more detail about PC build specifics. I agree it would be useful to have a separate thread where we can discuss PC builds and hardware and keep this thread focused.


To that end, let me give an update on my journey. Last time I posted an update I said I would be using my current PC as a pure gaming PC when I eventually get an iMac. My position was that I would want to remain almost entirely within the walled garden but still have access to a high end PC to play games. This has changed over the last few weeks, I'm now all in on Windows/Google. Let me explain.

I've said before that my work is best served by a PC and this an important point in my decision. I already have a very capable PC so buying the new iMac when it's released would be a waste. When I decided to go all in on life outside Apple I poured some more funds into this build as I'll no longer be buying an iMac. This meant, as you can see, a 3090FE and also the Alienware 38" ultrawide monitor. This setup is stunning and I am very happy.

For a long time I was 100% convinced that I could only use macOS because I wanted a retina screen for my full time use. However over time I seem to have adjusted to the 1:1 pixel mapping of Windows non-retina screens and for many things I actually prefer it. I had the pleasure of using a 4K 27" gaming monitor for a week and I ran that at 150% scaling which gave supposedly better looking text, but I found I missed the way a non-retina screen rendered things. 150% scaling just looked just a little soft and my eyes weren't happy. The only app that looks terrible with font rendering on Windows is Outlook, but I've gotten round this by using the PWA version which use browser font rendering, much nicer.

Outside of the PC I noticed myself using more and more of Google's services and so I moved from iPhone 12 to Pixel 5. I prefer using native apps from Google like Photos, Calendar and Chrome. I've also ditched my Apple TV 4K in the living room for the new Chromecast with Google TV, my wife is very happy as she has been fully Google ever since I originally convinced her to switch to a Pixel 2. She really hated the Apple TV remote.

So for now I am very content. My roots have always been in Windows and building PCs and it feels right to continue this way as it's as much a hobby as it is a tool I need for work. It will be interesting to see how I feel when the new iMacs drop as that has always been the machine I thought I would end up with.
If it helps any those posts seem offensive to me and more of an attack on the mod than anything. As someone who has had the privilege of participating in this thread and the enjoyment of following your journey - I never once saw this as a distraction from the first post - which was very technical in nature. Anyone who has taken the time to read the entire thread would know that leading me to believe these two haven’t. <shrug>.
 
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Sorry I'm out, this thread was supposed to be about macOs versus Windows, not PC hardware builds. @maflynn YOU might want to think on that and post a dedicated thread...

Q-6
You're right but in a sense, the OP started this and its always been part OS comparison and hardware comparison. I feel splitting up the thread would ruin the fabric of the discussion.

Many people may disagree, but I really try to take a light hand when moderating, and the negatives of splitting this up outweigh the positives.

As a compromise how about changing the title to Flip flopping between macOS/Macs and Windows/Pcs?
 
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I am really struggling with this myself at the moment.

When Apple moved to their own Silicon, I lost use of a piece of software that I depend on everyday for writing huge swathes of text - Dragon Professional Individual for Mac. Even though this software was discontinued a couple of years ago, it still runs to some degree on Intel-based Macs.

Under Rosetta, however, that has gone out of the window as it simply does not launch and the convoluted process of running the Windows version of the software (which is much superior anyway) is simply not viable for daily professional use. It involves an ARM Parallels Beta, a Windows on ARM Developer Preview and emulation of x86 software ... no thanks.

So, for the first time, I am really hitting a brick wall when it comes to my workflow on macOS and I may have to seriously consider switching to Windows full-time. I don't have a problem with this as such as I already have a pretty powerful Ryzen 7 PC but, just this morning, I had a Blue Screen of Death and it reminded me once more of how irritating dealing with Windows on a daily basis can be.

The path that Apple is now following is so completely locked down and, in my eyes, it could be years before some software is fully compatible. In my case, I'm now dependant on programs that will never make the transition. I don’t want to invest any more into Intel-based Macs as it’s just a dead end (and, having been burned by the PowerPC switch, I know what’s in store).

For the first time in over 25 years it means that I realistically shouldn't be using a Mac anymore and that's difficult both emotionally and professionally. The switch to Apple Silicon, for all its advantages, has really left me at a bit of a crossroads.
 
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the_interloper
For
the first time in over 25 years it means that I realistically shouldn't be using a Mac anymore and that's difficult both emotionally and professionally. The switch to Apple Silicon, for all its advantages, has really left me at a bit of a crossroads

Seems to me Apple does not want anyone using anything developed outside their Cupertino offices and from last decade. i felt this way recently, but realty feel strong about thier dominance over our products last week.
I still love my macbook air, TV, ipods, ipads and even that sim card-less iphone, but the support has stopped on all but 2 products and now Mojave is getting the ol' apple shove soon.

I had/wanted to purchase a Dell XPS work work and was going to sell that or give that way this February, was i glad i did not! The laptop is exceptional and i can still use some apple program on that, except itunes all of the sudden.
I was reading how there are great notebooks and laptops being produced by PC manufactures now were you can add more RAM and even slide in a better ssd drive down the road. Most computer people might not like this having to do any physical work, but if something fries or goes wrong on these new macbooks, there are useless.
 
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https://forums.macrumors.com/members/the_interloper.1054793/For the first time in over 25 years it means that I realistically shouldn't be using a Mac anymore and that's difficult both emotionally and professionally. The switch to Apple Silicon, for all its advantages, has really left me at a bit of a crossroads

Have you looked at the options available out side the walled garden? You can tailor things exactly to your needs, so you should find a good fit.

When I moved to Windows at first I felt I wanted to go back to macOS due to emotional reasons. So I did move back and I found macOS wasn't quite as amazing as my emotions made me believe. I actually appreciate a lot of what Window can do and for the first time started to dislike aspects of macOS.
 
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Have you looked at the options available out side the walled garden? You can tailor things exactly to your needs, so you should find a good fit.

When I moved to Windows at first I felt I wanted to go back to macOS due to emotional reasons. So I did move back and I found macOS wasn't quite as amazing as my emotions made me believe. I actually appreciate a lot of what Window can do and for the first time started to dislike aspects of macOS.
i accidentally posted a quote on a comment which was blank- sorry for the confusion.

the above message supports your question.
 
I am really struggling with this myself at the moment.

When Apple moved to their own Silicon, I lost use of a piece of software that I depend on everyday for writing huge swathes of text - Dragon Professional Individual for Mac. Even though this software was discontinued a couple of years ago, it still runs to some degree on Intel-based Macs.

Under Rosetta, however, that has gone out of the window as it simply does not launch and the convoluted process of running the Windows version of the software (which is much superior anyway) is simply not viable for daily professional use. It involves an ARM Parallels Beta, a Windows on ARM Developer Preview and emulation of x86 software ... no thanks.

So, for the first time, I am really hitting a brick wall when it comes to my workflow on macOS and I may have to seriously consider switching to Windows full-time. I don't have a problem with this as such as I already have a pretty powerful Ryzen 7 PC but, just this morning, I had a Blue Screen of Death and it reminded me once more of how irritating dealing with Windows on a daily basis can be.

The path that Apple is now following is so completely locked down and, in my eyes, it could be years before some software is fully compatible. In my case, I'm now dependant on programs that will never make the transition. I don’t want to invest any more into Intel-based Macs as it’s just a dead end (and, having been burned by the PowerPC switch, I know what’s in store).

For the first time in over 25 years it means that I realistically shouldn't be using a Mac anymore and that's difficult both emotionally and professionally. The switch to Apple Silicon, for all its advantages, has really left me at a bit of a crossroads.
This is too bad because I would be hate to be forced into the Windows if I did not want to be there. Does alternative software exist like from Epic? That said, I do use windows machines at work and they are much much better than they were 25 years ago.
 
Today Marks 20 Years Since Mac OS X First Launched

I mentioned this here, because of how it changed Macs and people's perception of Apple forever. It was buggy, it was slow, it lacked features, yet it was GREAT :)

A lot has changed in the world of computers, but one thing is sure, Apple's introduction of its first modern OS and complete overhaul of its UI/UX impacted the industry with MS looking to emulate OS X in a number of ways.

Both operating systems have changed, some for the better, some for the worse and while it unlikely I'll go back to OS X, it still holds a soft spot in my heart :)
 
While I like Big Sur better than Catalina... I'm having weird bugs that affect my ability to work. For example, I sometimes lose the ability to get spotlight search up when I do Command+Space. Only a reboot fixes it.

Every now and then my i7 will spin up and I'll find something eating the CPU cycles like a runaway process (Apple Notes, Thumbnails agent, anything). So I have to kill it manually. I've never had to do this on Mac OS before - but I've never had an i7 before on Mac either... I've never had to restart Mac OS as often as I do now. But I'm not a light user I guess (Parallels with a W10Pro instance doing VS 2019 with a massive project).

Big Sur is hard on the cache too - 6 months into ownership I've already used half of the 29 months of writes I did on my 2017 MBP. (Not that I'm worrying about that, just stuff I observe (driveDX) - despite having 32GB of ram).

That said, I really like Mac OS. Windows 10 has REALLY REALLY improved over the last few years - I would not mind using that. I just don't think I could give up the ecosystem. Text messages, calls, safari 2fa auto-insert, pictures being instantly available when I take them on my phone, I just have gotten used to this. That said, I would not mind going Windows 10. It's nice and really fast these days. It feels a lot snappier than Mac OS by quite a bit.
 
While I like Big Sur better than Catalina... I'm having weird bugs that affect my ability to work. For example, I sometimes lose the ability to get spotlight search up when I do Command+Space. Only a reboot fixes it.

Every now and then my i7 will spin up and I'll find something eating the CPU cycles like a runaway process (Apple Notes, Thumbnails agent, anything). So I have to kill it manually. I've never had to do this on Mac OS before - but I've never had an i7 before on Mac either... I've never had to restart Mac OS as often as I do now. But I'm not a light user I guess (Parallels with a W10Pro instance doing VS 2019 with a massive project).

Big Sur is hard on the cache too - 6 months into ownership I've already used half of the 29 months of writes I did on my 2017 MBP. (Not that I'm worrying about that, just stuff I observe (driveDX) - despite having 32GB of ram).

That said, I really like Mac OS. Windows 10 has REALLY REALLY improved over the last few years - I would not mind using that. I just don't think I could give up the ecosystem. Text messages, calls, safari 2fa auto-insert, pictures being instantly available when I take them on my phone, I just have gotten used to this. That said, I would not mind going Windows 10. It's nice and really fast these days. It feels a lot snappier than Mac OS by quite a bit.
Other than the telemetry and the huge footprint of windows, with the latest Windows 10 releases, I'm starting to become enamored, again, with Windows. I think Microsoft is doing goods things with Windows. That said no operating system is perfect and each have their pluses and minuses.
 
This used to be a much easier choice, but it no longer is (unless you are an avid gamer, in which case build a Windows gaming rig and then have a second 'work' computer that is whatever OS you want).

The fundamental issue is this: The Mac used to have massive advantages in terms of UI, stability, and the ease of doing many critical tasks (for example, try easily making a bootable clone of a Windows machine to a hard drive that's smaller than the original, or larger without having to go work magic on the partition to recover otherwise lost space; it's a freaking nightmare). The Mac made things like extensive numbers of multiple-monitors and huge-raid arrays easy. And then once they moved to Intel they ran Windows too, at full speed. So about the ONLY thing they didn't do pretty darn well was cool themselves and run games (except the *real* MacPros, which were great at these things). Windows machines, on the other hand, had massive advantages when it came to overall flexibility (both hardware and software) and appealed to enthusiasts, gamers and hobbyists. It's a lot of fun building your own gaming rig, for example. Ultimate speed, power, and flexibility were definitely on the Windows side of things, but only when we were talking about high-end requirements (since a Mac running Bootcamp could handle everything except the very top-tier stuff like VR). But Windows rigs had major disadvantages; worse UIs, worse stability, fragile driver ecosystem, and considerable difficulty when you wanted to do many of things that were easy on the Mac (like build raid arrays, boot from external drives, reinstall the OS on a non-bootable drive without losing data, clone bootable drives, the list just goes on and on).

But over the last dozen or so years their positions have been slowly converging: On the Windows side the stability and the UI have gotten better, (OTOH Microsoft forces updates that completely bork systems on a routine basis, which is moronic beyond comprehension.) On Windows systems many things that used to be hard (raid arrays, huge numbers of monitors, ease of device integration, finding reasonably good software) have gotten much easier. Overall the Windows experience is vastly, vastly, better than it once was. On the Mac side, unfortunately, almost everything beyond "basic user" needs has been borked by Apple. The UI, with Big Sur, has degraded into one of the worst I've ever seen, period. Multiple-monitor use has been greatly reduced and systems can no longer even boot from RAID arrays. Making bootable clones on M1 machines has proven incredibly difficult for many and even booting from external media requires additional security steps.

Or put succinctly: the vast majority (but not all) of the things that were bad about Windows boxes have gotten better, while the vast majority (but not all) of the things that were good about Macs have gotten worse. It's no longer an easy decision at all.
 
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panjandrum
excellent observations! some issues are debatable but all in all your words hit the hammer on the nail head.
what i love more about Windows 10 (which hurts ne typing this) is the expandability and NO ADS!
i run 3 ad blockers on my macbook air and ipad which still get ads in twiiter and other sites, while there are none on the Dell XPS
last year i purchased a ssd drive for the macbook air, 256 GB for $75,
im getting one for the dell xps 512GB for less $.
there are more pluses, but dont want to annoy any mac lovers here, i still use one, but a lot less this month!
 
This used to be a much easier choice, but it no longer is (unless you are an avid gamer, in which case build a Windows gaming rig and then have a second 'work' computer that is whatever OS you want).

The fundamental issue is this: The Mac used to have massive advantages in terms of UI, stability, and the ease of doing many critical tasks (for example, try easily making a bootable clone of a Windows machine to a hard drive that's smaller than the original, or larger without having to go work magic on the partition to recover otherwise lost space; it's a freaking nightmare). The Mac made things like extensive numbers of multiple-monitors and huge-raid arrays easy. And then once they moved to Intel they ran Windows too, at full speed. So about the ONLY thing they didn't do pretty darn well was cool themselves and run games (except the *real* MacPros, which were great at these things). Windows machines, on the other hand, had massive advantages when it came to overall flexibility (both hardware and software) and appealed to enthusiasts, gamers and hobbyists. It's a lot of fun building your own gaming rig, for example. Ultimate speed, power, and flexibility were definitely on the Windows side of things, but only when we were talking about high-end requirements (since a Mac running Bootcamp could handle everything except the very top-tier stuff like VR). But Windows rigs had major disadvantages; worse UIs, worse stability, fragile driver ecosystem, and considerable difficulty when you wanted to do many of things that were easy on the Mac (like build raid arrays, boot from external drives, reinstall the OS on a non-bootable drive without losing data, clone bootable drives, the list just goes on and on).

But over the last dozen or so years their positions have been slowly converging: On the Windows side the stability and the UI have gotten better, (OTOH Microsoft forces updates that completely bork systems on a routine basis, which is moronic beyond comprehension.) On Windows systems many things that used to be hard (raid arrays, huge numbers of monitors, ease of device integration, finding reasonably good software) have gotten much easier. Overall the Windows experience is vastly, vastly, better than it once was. On the Mac side, unfortunately, almost everything beyond "basic user" needs has been borked by Apple. The UI, with Big Sur, has degraded into one of the worst I've ever seen, period. Multiple-monitor use has been greatly reduced and systems can no longer even boot from RAID arrays. Making bootable clones on M1 machines has proven incredibly difficult for many and even booting from external media requires additional security steps.

Or put succinctly: the vast majority (but not all) of the things that were bad about Windows boxes have gotten better, while the vast majority (but not all) of the things that were good about Macs have gotten worse. It's no longer an easy decision at all.
I have tried MacOS 3 times. Each time I get frustrated at the simplest of things. Closing a program on windows, you hit the red x. On mac, you either have to do some keyboard/touchpad gymnastics or go to the apple click close program etc. Right clicking on Mac is more than just clicking on the right button because there is none. All these little UI things (just to be different) did it in for me. The second thing is the planned obsolescence. I bought aperture 2 when I had my 2011 mac mini and 27" cinema monitor. worked and I enjoyed the program. Fast forward a few years later and I traded an acer laptop for a 2007 macbook to play around with. The macbook would not load a useable version of safari, the app store etc. I could not download the aperture program I paid 499.00 for. They would not send me an install disc because it was discontinued. I said I don't care I paid for this program, and I OWN it. Apple told me to find your original disc. At that point I said I would never purchase a Mac again. I have a 2007 Acer notebook here running on the latest version of windows 10, and it runs quite well. I am sure the Macbook I owned could still run current MacOS verisons they just choose not to do it.

Therefore I will never purchase a mac because appple tells you when to upgrade, not you telling yourself when to upgrade. I am typing this on my lower spec dell 2 in 1 inspiron. Its going on 4 years old and never misses a beat. Another two years if it were a mac, Apple would start "sunsetting" the macbook that's this old cutting features and updates. Meanwhile, I just keep downloading the new version of windows on all my machines and they keep trucking. I was super close to purchasing an M1 pro, but said to myself, I cannot afford to take a huge loss like I did the last three times I tried to move to Mac. Therefore I have decided to move my mobile devices to android to have better integration with my windows' devices instead of the other way around.
 
This used to be a much easier choice, but it no longer is (unless you are an avid gamer, in which case build a Windows gaming rig and then have a second 'work' computer that is whatever OS you want).

The fundamental issue is this: The Mac used to have massive advantages in terms of UI, stability, and the ease of doing many critical tasks (for example, try easily making a bootable clone of a Windows machine to a hard drive that's smaller than the original, or larger without having to go work magic on the partition to recover otherwise lost space; it's a freaking nightmare). The Mac made things like extensive numbers of multiple-monitors and huge-raid arrays easy. And then once they moved to Intel they ran Windows too, at full speed. So about the ONLY thing they didn't do pretty darn well was cool themselves and run games (except the *real* MacPros, which were great at these things). Windows machines, on the other hand, had massive advantages when it came to overall flexibility (both hardware and software) and appealed to enthusiasts, gamers and hobbyists. It's a lot of fun building your own gaming rig, for example. Ultimate speed, power, and flexibility were definitely on the Windows side of things, but only when we were talking about high-end requirements (since a Mac running Bootcamp could handle everything except the very top-tier stuff like VR). But Windows rigs had major disadvantages; worse UIs, worse stability, fragile driver ecosystem, and considerable difficulty when you wanted to do many of things that were easy on the Mac (like build raid arrays, boot from external drives, reinstall the OS on a non-bootable drive without losing data, clone bootable drives, the list just goes on and on).

But over the last dozen or so years their positions have been slowly converging: On the Windows side the stability and the UI have gotten better, (OTOH Microsoft forces updates that completely bork systems on a routine basis, which is moronic beyond comprehension.) On Windows systems many things that used to be hard (raid arrays, huge numbers of monitors, ease of device integration, finding reasonably good software) have gotten much easier. Overall the Windows experience is vastly, vastly, better than it once was. On the Mac side, unfortunately, almost everything beyond "basic user" needs has been borked by Apple. The UI, with Big Sur, has degraded into one of the worst I've ever seen, period. Multiple-monitor use has been greatly reduced and systems can no longer even boot from RAID arrays. Making bootable clones on M1 machines has proven incredibly difficult for many and even booting from external media requires additional security steps.

Or put succinctly: the vast majority (but not all) of the things that were bad about Windows boxes have gotten better, while the vast majority (but not all) of the things that were good about Macs have gotten worse. It's no longer an easy decision at all.
The one thing that is missing on windows at this point is iPhone integration. I have dell mobile connect, but it's a resource hog on my notebook. I wish your phone on windows would start incorporating iPhone into it.
 
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I am running ad block plus on my windows and android devices, and just whatever ad blocking is built into Edge on my iDevices and see NO ads. Could be different regions have different rules?
 
I add Adguard DNS to my WiFi settings on both macOS and iPadOS/iOS to get system-wide ad blocking: https://adguard.com/en/adguard-dns/overview.html

Works perfectly.
I've had inconsistent luck with Adguard, to the point where I largely ignore it. I could be wrong, but they had to nerf much of the iOS features a few versions ago given how an iOS update changed things.

On the computer I use adblock plus and that does one thing that adguard never did for me. Block YT ads. Of all of the advertisements on the web, I can live with most of them except YouTube ads, where you can 1, 2 or even 3 ads in the middle of a YT.
 
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i stopped you tube since November and do mot miss that site at all!
adguard wanted to access something in my MacBook, so i just downloaded the software to block ads.
i will give this test drive now, thanks!
 
I am really struggling with this myself at the moment.

When Apple moved to their own Silicon, I lost use of a piece of software that I depend on everyday for writing huge swathes of text - Dragon Professional Individual for Mac. Even though this software was discontinued a couple of years ago, it still runs to some degree on Intel-based Macs.

Under Rosetta, however, that has gone out of the window as it simply does not launch and the convoluted process of running the Windows version of the software (which is much superior anyway) is simply not viable for daily professional use. It involves an ARM Parallels Beta, a Windows on ARM Developer Preview and emulation of x86 software ... no thanks.

So, for the first time, I am really hitting a brick wall when it comes to my workflow on macOS and I may have to seriously consider switching to Windows full-time. I don't have a problem with this as such as I already have a pretty powerful Ryzen 7 PC but, just this morning, I had a Blue Screen of Death and it reminded me once more of how irritating dealing with Windows on a daily basis can be.

The path that Apple is now following is so completely locked down and, in my eyes, it could be years before some software is fully compatible. In my case, I'm now dependant on programs that will never make the transition. I don’t want to invest any more into Intel-based Macs as it’s just a dead end (and, having been burned by the PowerPC switch, I know what’s in store).

For the first time in over 25 years it means that I realistically shouldn't be using a Mac anymore and that's difficult both emotionally and professionally. The switch to Apple Silicon, for all its advantages, has really left me at a bit of a crossroads.
Do you mess with your windows installs at all? I have been using windows since 3.11. I have not had a BSOD since xp.
 
While I like Big Sur better than Catalina... I'm having weird bugs that affect my ability to work. For example, I sometimes lose the ability to get spotlight search up when I do Command+Space. Only a reboot fixes it.

Every now and then my i7 will spin up and I'll find something eating the CPU cycles like a runaway process (Apple Notes, Thumbnails agent, anything). So I have to kill it manually. I've never had to do this on Mac OS before - but I've never had an i7 before on Mac either... I've never had to restart Mac OS as often as I do now. But I'm not a light user I guess (Parallels with a W10Pro instance doing VS 2019 with a massive project).

Big Sur is hard on the cache too - 6 months into ownership I've already used half of the 29 months of writes I did on my 2017 MBP. (Not that I'm worrying about that, just stuff I observe (driveDX) - despite having 32GB of ram).

That said, I really like Mac OS. Windows 10 has REALLY REALLY improved over the last few years - I would not mind using that. I just don't think I could give up the ecosystem. Text messages, calls, safari 2fa auto-insert, pictures being instantly available when I take them on my phone, I just have gotten used to this. That said, I would not mind going Windows 10. It's nice and really fast these days. It feels a lot snappier than Mac OS by quite a bit.
You can have all of this but you need to move entirely to the microsoft ecosystem. Onedrive, authenticator, Dell Mobile connect and a couple of other. I have complete iOS incorporation with my windows devices.

I have noticed that mobile connect is not hogging resources on my new XPS workstation, just my notebook. I will have to look more into this one.

I almost bought the M1 macbook pro for the integration but every piece of software I own for work is on windows and I would have to purchase all of it again. I don't mind spending money but that seemed counterproductive to me. So I got a nice new workstation which I am really liking.
 
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Do you mess with your windows installs at all? I have been using windows since 3.11. I have not had a BSOD since xp.
I wouldn't say I mess with them, as such. But I do like to keep things ticking over. I've been building PCs since the 90s so I'm not a complete noob but I have recently noticed some fragility in Windows 10.

The only variable with my PC recently was a change of graphics card – I swapped out a 1050 TI for a Radeon RX 480 that I got for virtually nothing. I wonder whether a graphics issue caused the blue screen (it was waking from sleep, error code MEMORY MANAGEMENT) or even if my power supply needs upgrading to cope with the draw from the GPU (it's a 450W).

Having said that, I've seen multiple BSODs on other devices including various Surface Book and Pro machines. You've done well not to see one for that long. :)
 
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