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For those considering to purchase the MBP
- Thread starter lordthistle
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No WE want Apple! But if we pay a premium price we deserve a faultless notebook.
And of course we must sit here, and there, everywhere, and keep complaining until Apple gets BETTER and BETTER.
If we don´t .....
Okay. You sit there and complain while we actually use our Macs.
If you expected perfection before you switched, you need to wake up and go out into the world.
The "premium price" is for OS X, an OS that actually works, and the industrial design. The hardware is the same as any PC.
No WE want Apple! But if we pay a premium price we deserve a faultless notebook.
And of course we must sit here, and there, everywhere, and keep complaining until Apple gets BETTER and BETTER.
If we don´t .....
haha, better and better? for you just worse and worse
i'm italian too,
and i think the one abut the display it's a common complain.
i got 2 SR MBP, the last one' been purchased in the marketplace forum here.
The display performances are really different,one form the other.
The first one i got, was pretty perfect, the last one, shows after only few seconds of intense use video artifacts,and an annoying "gamma changement" ..
Maybe i'd better postinf some pics, since it's really hard to explain what happens..
BTW i think mbp it's a bit overvaluated...
and i think the one abut the display it's a common complain.
i got 2 SR MBP, the last one' been purchased in the marketplace forum here.
The display performances are really different,one form the other.
The first one i got, was pretty perfect, the last one, shows after only few seconds of intense use video artifacts,and an annoying "gamma changement" ..
Maybe i'd better postinf some pics, since it's really hard to explain what happens..
BTW i think mbp it's a bit overvaluated...
It has been a while since I last posted here, but I have become the sad owner of a 2.4GHz Penryn MBP. I bought it some weeks ago: I spent the first week installing software, the second week using it, and the third week asking myself why I did not realize sooner that I could have used my money for spending some weeks somewhere in the world or just save my euro for buying ice creams for the rest of my life.
Before buying it, I came on this site looking for some info. I did not know whether going for a MBP or a MB. I hope that this post can be useful for people with the same doubt I had.
What made me chose a MBP:
- larger screen;
- discrete GPU.
That's it: current generations MBPs and MB have similar processors and the same amount of RAM.
The PROS:
- when the screen works, it is wonderful;
- when the computer is off or when you are not doing heavy computations, the aluminium case is a joy to touch;
- the illuminated keyboard is really wonderful. I used to think it was only design, but it is useful.
- it is really thin.
- some animations are smoother than on the MB. In particular: stacks, grids, and dashboard. Expose and spaces animations are similar to those on MB.
- multitouch is not useless as many people think. You can zoom images, web pages and pdfs, go back and forth while surfing, easily browse pdf. I appreciate it.
- speakers are not as bad as many suggest. They are worst than those on my previous toshiba, but much better than those on a dell I work on.
- the battery lasts only a bit less than four hours with "normal" usage: Browsing, email, some text editing.
- it is silent. In particular, much more silent than MBs.
What are the CONS:
- it becomes hot. At 80 celsius (maximum I reached) it is still touchable but forget about the "lap" part of laptop.
- the screen sometimes does not work as it should.
- the keyboard is not as good as many say. I waited some weeks to check whether or not I would get used, but the keys are simply too close to each other and the enter/return key on many keyboards (every keyboard except the us version) is ridiculous: I am not yet able to press it without looking.
- it is not that smoother and faster than a MB. Sometimes it does not feel responsive at all.
- the trackpad is too small for comfortable multitouch gestures. You can still do such gestures but not as on the MB Air.
- audio output on jack is not as good as I thought it would be and worst than my 5-year old toshiba.
The very very bad. Look at the following screenshots.
The first two were caused by Aperture. Aperture is made by Apple: it makes a heavy use of the GPU and that is the result: corrupted video memory. I do not know if my unit is defective or it is just aperture. I can only say that I do not have these problems when I use other software. nvidia drivers on this MBP are commonly not considered in their 'final' version. I hope apple will release a new graphics update, but I do not think apple can keep producing everything by itself: it is now in a competitive market, with many novelties. Their marketing model is still in the powerpc era.
However, these are not the only graphics problems. Here is another one.
The corrupted text was caused by a very rare operation (fortunately): scrolling. Yes, I simply scrolled down or up that page and the text was not repainted correctly. This one came out from nowhere, but it looks like the .3 leopard version will solve the problem. Anyway, I think this is absurd.
I have another problem related to leds. You can read more about it here:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=7080811#7080811
for a quick look:
the image is not mine but is taken from the thread cited above.
So, frankly, I think that the current MBP is not worth the money they ask for. I live in Italy and I bought it from a shop: I will ask for a replacement/service in the next weeks but I cannot return it. If I could, I would return it without thinking twice. In Italy the base MBP is worth 1.5 times the average monthly salary, but with those surprises it should cost only a little more than a dell.
If you want to ask specific questions just do it and I will be glad to answer them (if I can).
ciao,
thistle
I am back. Since I had to spend some time away, I sent my MBP to the repair centre with a list of defects. I asked them to focus on the screen defects: dark stripes and yellowish tint (a new one wrt my initial post: I was not able to see black and white pictures).
They simply exchanged my display without complaining about my "pickyness". The previous display was 9c80 (likely AUO), current one should be 9c83 (likely Samsung).
Samsung and LG LCD screens are considered to be the best ones in the ***** MBP world. Frankly, I do not think this new screen is either samsung or lg, because it is quite lousy: the bottom part is the worst I have ever seen in a notebook. Apart from the stripes (that might not be depend on the screen) and the strong yellowish tint, the AUO I had before was fantastic compared to this one.
I think that I was expecting too much by this MBP: apple commercials and apple zealots have proven to be quite effective. The MBP is a mediocre/ordinary notebook with some luxury touches. Nothing more, only the price (which I *now* consider ridiculously high).
thistle
They simply exchanged my display without complaining about my "pickyness". The previous display was 9c80 (likely AUO), current one should be 9c83 (likely Samsung).
Samsung and LG LCD screens are considered to be the best ones in the ***** MBP world. Frankly, I do not think this new screen is either samsung or lg, because it is quite lousy: the bottom part is the worst I have ever seen in a notebook. Apart from the stripes (that might not be depend on the screen) and the strong yellowish tint, the AUO I had before was fantastic compared to this one.
I think that I was expecting too much by this MBP: apple commercials and apple zealots have proven to be quite effective. The MBP is a mediocre/ordinary notebook with some luxury touches. Nothing more, only the price (which I *now* consider ridiculously high).
thistle
Sorry about your horrible experience. =\
Thanks for posting about it - I am planning to buy an MBP soon, so I find it helpful to know everything about potential issues.
I believe that every company should back its products, no matter how much they cost, and support them if there are defects. From what I've read from peoples' stories, Apple generally does a good job of doing that. But as always, nothing is ever perfect.
I hope the new screen works out. All else fails, keep complaining to Apple. Any computer purchase is an investment, so ideally they should be able to help you.
Thanks for posting about it - I am planning to buy an MBP soon, so I find it helpful to know everything about potential issues.
I believe that every company should back its products, no matter how much they cost, and support them if there are defects. From what I've read from peoples' stories, Apple generally does a good job of doing that. But as always, nothing is ever perfect.
I hope the new screen works out. All else fails, keep complaining to Apple. Any computer purchase is an investment, so ideally they should be able to help you.
The jokes you can find around are quite easy to recognize: they all say the MBPs are the best notebooks ever created by the mankind.
Unfortunately, no one told me they were only jokes before I purchased my very expensive notebook. I thought they were true.
This afternoon I have to go back to the shop and ask for another substitution of the screen. Since I am afraid the over-lighting / bleeding (I do not know the English term) is "within the specs" (with quite a large range for what I understand
) I am afraid I will have to live with this terrible screen (even if it is a second a screen, meaning that at least one human being looked at it before sending it to me).thistle
You should try to get a completely new replacement. Sorry about your "unluckiness" but more than not, I've seen positive, perfect reviews of mbps. Regardless, try to get a complete replacement! Also, where you bought the machine, is it an Authorized Reseller? You mentioned how they called Apple, which implies you bought it from a non-
store.
store.Well I just got a Macbook Pro as my graduation gift for college. Well it's actually required for school (Ithaca's Park School). I was thrilled to get it and I really enjoy this computer.
For what it is worth before I got this computer I owned a P4 tower with 2gb of ram and a Nvidia FX5500. Rather old video card, but I never really had a problem with Windows XP. Last summer I had a ton of fun getting OS X 86 on that computer.
Fast forward to today I have a MBP 15in with 4gb of ram and wow it is a wonderful computer. I have had no problems with it yet and I hope to keep this monster running for at least 5-6 years.
I'm glad I own a mac
For what it is worth before I got this computer I owned a P4 tower with 2gb of ram and a Nvidia FX5500. Rather old video card, but I never really had a problem with Windows XP. Last summer I had a ton of fun getting OS X 86 on that computer.
Fast forward to today I have a MBP 15in with 4gb of ram and wow it is a wonderful computer. I have had no problems with it yet and I hope to keep this monster running for at least 5-6 years.
I'm glad I own a mac
You should try to get a completely new replacement. Sorry about your "unluckiness" but more than not, I've seen positive, perfect reviews of mbps. Regardless, try to get a complete replacement! Also, where you bought the machine, is it an Authorized Reseller? You mentioned how they called Apple, which implies you bought it from a non-
Yes, it is authorized, the biggest in Italy till some years ago, when apple did not have an on-line site or started to open apple stores. They do not offer the assistance in their local shops: that's why they phone. In the paper I received from the assistance, however, there is the name and symbol of the shop. It is a "regional" chain, with several points of sale and a central assistance centre.
Italy is not exactly the best place for "clients", i.e. people buying goods.
For example, in Europe (or in EU and for sure in Italy), the warranty must be valid for 2 years (at least) by law. Apple does violate this law: people must sue apple and fight for their rights in the second year after the purchase: they always win, but apple just does not care.
thistle
I completely sympathize for the OP, and I'm glad he's taken the time to post about his experience here. I know defects DO happen, but for them to occur simultaneously in one unit like that is a real problem... I maybe purchasing a MBP soon, and two grand is a lot to sink into a laptop for high school into college student, I completely expect to receive a piece of machinery that is pretty damn close to perfection.
Also, I'm hoping that the rather piss-poor repair service you received may be attributed to your living in Italy, I don't know how Apple is internationally but I believe they are much more accomodating on this side of the ocean (as in, America/Canada).
Good luck mate, hopefully things work out for you. Keep us updated with your conclusions?
Also, I'm hoping that the rather piss-poor repair service you received may be attributed to your living in Italy, I don't know how Apple is internationally but I believe they are much more accomodating on this side of the ocean (as in, America/Canada).
Good luck mate, hopefully things work out for you. Keep us updated with your conclusions?
The jokes you can find around are quite easy to recognize: they all say the MBPs are the best notebooks ever created by the mankind.
Unfortunately, no one told me they were only jokes before I purchased my very expensive notebook. I thought they were true.
This afternoon I have to go back to the shop and ask for another substitution of the screen. Since I am afraid the over-lighting / bleeding (I do not know the English term) is "within the specs" (with quite a large range for what I understand
thistle
I am also sorry to hear of your constant problems. Every company has issues, including Apple- something some people fail to recognize on some of these forums. Can I just say that this is my 3rd Macbook Pro in the last 2 weeks, first had faulty battery, 2nd graphics failure and this one is perfect
I know these are excellent notebooks, I was saddened to receive one that wasn't what they were supposed to be like but the outcome is acceptable, they couldn't apologize more. I have faith in Apple, even after being on this 3rd laptop, if I didn't I would have got a refund. It is only right that people who go through these problems come on here and discuss them, people shouldn't verbally attack them for it. I would like to ask the OP when did the problems start and why didn't they get a refund or replacement within the first 14 days as allowed in all operating countries I believe? I also understand the position of some people who say you are not taking on board their suggestions, it seems you have been partially slow in responding to your issues and contacting Apple, the first thing to do is get onto them constantly until you resolve your situation. If you are not happy, tell them. I didn't expect to pay this sort of money for a faulty computer but the reality is they gave me the choice of a refund or replacement and my replacement is perfect.I didn't read the thread, but the OP seems very illogical. I'm assuming you've done some decent research into the MBP before you bought it correct? Well I don't know where you've been looking, but it seems that most people are happy with their MBP, so obviously this is a user specific case. You just got extremely unlucky and bought a defective MBP, and now you're implying that nearly all of apple hardware is defective when clearly this is not the case based on the research you've done before you bought.
And I am safe to assume that the research you did prior to buying it lead you to conclude that an overwhelming majority of people are happy with their MBP, otherwise you wouldn't have bought it in the first place.
And I am safe to assume that the research you did prior to buying it lead you to conclude that an overwhelming majority of people are happy with their MBP, otherwise you wouldn't have bought it in the first place.
For the record ... I'm having the same corrupted display problems on my new MBP 15". I haven't experienced anything quite as bad as the aperture screens that were posted above, but have had lots of garbled text and images etc.. I just started another thread about this problem before i read this one to try to find out whether this is definitely a hardware issue.
IBM ThinkPads. I've had about 6 of them. They've all worked great. Never heard of anyone with any problems with them. I ran one over in my car once (don't ask!) and the case closing mechanism was very slightly bent but it still worked fine. I've also dropped one from four foot. It still worked. Nothing was broken. It carried on transferring the files that it was doing before I dropped it.
The points are, and these are undeniable facts:-
- Apple hardware is being made to a cheaper specification
- Apple hardware is maintaining it's premium price
- A lot of the deserved reputation for Apple products comes from older hardware which was better made
Apple has lost the plot recently with it's displays. The iMac's 20" screen is woeful and the 24" not that much better.
I agree with LordThistle. You shouldn't have these problems with a new Mac. If, on the odd occasion, you do have these problems and you are within the warranty period, then you should get a replacement or the problem should be fixed. You should reasonably expect the new/fixed model to not display the same problem. You have a right to a quality piece of working hardware which you can then abuse if you so wish at your own discretion.
The fanboy mentality is an illness. Yes, love Apple for the design, the way it works well with your lifestyle and needs but for heavens sake don't be blind to its failings.
By the way, my first Mac (a MBP) is arriving by courrier today!
I'm going in with my eyes wide open. I trust you'll do the same.
ETA: I specifically chose the MBP 15" matte screen as I heard that it is the best screen. The MB and iMac screens were sub-par for me.
You did not read the thread, but you felt compelled to reply saying that I am illogical... without reading the thread. That's the nicest reaction by a zealot I have ever seen. Dear bigDeeOT (OT as for off topic?), there is something (at least) strange in the way your brain thinks.
My MBP is back in the repait centre. Yesterday the stripes showed up again: less than 24 hours with the new screen and the stripes were there. I will have and buy a cheap pc-notebook for doing some work: that MBP was worth 1.5 times my monthly income, it was 1800 euro.
Unfortunately the strange hyper-illumination in the lower left corner has been considered "within-specs" for these LED-based displays. I wonder what the point of these displays is if they are worse than old-style displays. They do not dim with the years, but they look bad... strange policy.
Just to make things clear. I am telling my story, but it is not MY story only. Forums are full of people with the stripes, with weird graphics, with K replacements... Before buying the MBP, I searched the forums and I realized that I would rather buy an end-of-line MBP than the future/all new MBP. I thought that all the major problems had already been solved since it was an OLD model, not a NEW one. And I was wrong.
I asked for a replacement but in Italy it does not work as in the rest of the civilized countries (I had the first problems after 1 month). People getting replacements or money back usually sue apple. May be I should not use "civilized" referring to Italy, but it is a common (and IMMO wrong) practice.
thistle
Exactly.
In my workgroup there are 5 IBM thinkpads, 2 toshibas and 1 hp: there is not a single defective pixel in any of them. Zero problems. In my family we have/had 2 dells, 3 toshibas, 1 vaio: no problem at all. I am still using a toshiba that I bought in 2003.
In my group there are currently 2 apple notebooks: 1 MB had to go back for a defective cd burner. The other one is my MBP. I work in a computer science department and people stopped buying macs after a lot of defective units (not only in my group): there is no point in spending all those money if there is no reliability. May be the next generation will be less defect-prone.
I will let you know the surprises of the 2nd tour to the service.
thistle
On my second tour, I received a third screen which is better than the second and worse than the first. I have not seen the stripes in the past weeks.
Even if it looks like a new MBP is coming out, I suggest to those of you interested in buying one to read this:
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1258
Which tells you how Apple treats their customer: a problem in one of the key components (the screen) is not address. On July 17 2008, they suggest to install 10.5.3, when the current release is 10.5.4.
Do you have a screen with dark stripes? We do not care. Downgrade your os and stay quiet.
That's what the mighty producer does.
Beware of poisoned apples.
thistle
Even if it looks like a new MBP is coming out, I suggest to those of you interested in buying one to read this:
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1258
Which tells you how Apple treats their customer: a problem in one of the key components (the screen) is not address. On July 17 2008, they suggest to install 10.5.3, when the current release is 10.5.4.
Do you have a screen with dark stripes? We do not care. Downgrade your os and stay quiet.
That's what the mighty producer does.
Beware of poisoned apples.
thistle
Wow, I remember that post of mine. Funnily enough, I only made it because I knew that I was right.
Terribly sorry, I meant the entire planet, not just one person with 100%.
None of my Macs have ever had permanent trouble with hardware.
When I order a supposedly inherently flawed Montevina MacBook Pro in either one or eight days, yes, I will.
lol you have to admit though, apple is pretty smart. They know there are plenty of mac zealots lurking in particular forums where such a problem will be cited, and that the said zealots will gladly die for them. We should have a poll on how many people will take a bullet for Mr. Jobs. A random thought but I always liked Bill Gates better in Pirates of Silicon Valley...Jobs is always so mean lol.
Brand loyalty is a dangerous thing, nasty nasty cause of market failure...dampens the loss in sales that should have been, boosting carelessness and persisting issues...sad