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For Those Not Upgrading, What Could Apple Have Done to Convince You?
- Thread starter MICHAELSD
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I probably would have been willing to pay $1,400 for the touchbar "8gb/256".
$1,800 is too much, and I would have little use for the touchbar.
Even $1,500 seems like too much for the entry-level fkey model.
I'm seeing the 2015 "basic" 13" MacBook Pro selling now for as low as $1,029. I'm expecting to see it for $999 after the first of the year.
Maybe not the "latest and greatest", but it has a full complement of ports for stuff I still actually -use-, a -better- keyboard, and a "good enough" display.
That's what I'll be buying.
$1,800 is too much, and I would have little use for the touchbar.
Even $1,500 seems like too much for the entry-level fkey model.
I'm seeing the 2015 "basic" 13" MacBook Pro selling now for as low as $1,029. I'm expecting to see it for $999 after the first of the year.
Maybe not the "latest and greatest", but it has a full complement of ports for stuff I still actually -use-, a -better- keyboard, and a "good enough" display.
That's what I'll be buying.
Basically this. I don't even need the better GPU. Lower price and a few of the legacy ports probably would have done it for me.
Prob will upgrade but waiting to see it in the stores...
I would have liked a top spec 15 in a 13 package.
upgradable RAM and SSD
32 gigs of ram
On a side note, I wonder if apple did a 15" without touch bar, thus lowering the cost if that would be a big seller?
I would have liked a top spec 15 in a 13 package.
upgradable RAM and SSD
32 gigs of ram
On a side note, I wonder if apple did a 15" without touch bar, thus lowering the cost if that would be a big seller?
I'm not against the Touch Bar - it's neat - I'' just not ready to pay $500 CAD extra for it given all of the other compromises with the 2016 model.
That being said, the compromises are mostly Intel dropping the ball with Broadwell/Skylake, which force other design decisions that become difficult engineering choices for Apple, given the obsession with thinness.
Here's what my ideal 2016 model would've looked like:
That being said, the compromises are mostly Intel dropping the ball with Broadwell/Skylake, which force other design decisions that become difficult engineering choices for Apple, given the obsession with thinness.
Here's what my ideal 2016 model would've looked like:
- Updated chassis, same as what was just released.
- USB-C / TB3 only is fine, this is the future
- 32 GB RAM option (not possible in the given TDP envelope, Intel's fault)
- 4K video hardware encoding and decoding (Intel's fault)
- Iris Pro iGPU (Intel's fault)
- Dual 5K monitor support (Intel's fault)
- Pascal dGPU option would be nice to have (not possible in the given TDP envelope, nVidia's fault). Polaris 10 is fine (esp. the 460)
- 512 GB SSD as standard
- Touch ID
- Touch Bar is a nice to have - I won't say no
- Same price as previous generation
I'd like to see the prices stay the same as before. There is nothing special to bump the price by 600-1000 bucks.
What would have tempted me? Probably something that would have given me a functional advantage rather than aesthetics:
* Larger display in same form-factor: plenty of laptops make better use of the lid space than the MBPs. Or a smaller 15" device, but overall I think a compact 14" would be better.
* More battery rather than a thinner machine.
* A bump in the base storage (since I'm finding 512MB cramped already this basically comes down to "not such a premium for 1 TB". I don't care about clouds or external storage, I know what suits my usage).
* Not requiring a whole new set of dongles for basic tasks (which isn't so much a selling point itself, but rather the lack of an unselling point).
And despite what Apple say (which boils down to "we're right, as always") I would have uses for a touchscreen or 2-in-1, while I find the touch bar neither compelling nor repelling, simply irrelevant to my purchasing decisions. In fact if I were to buy one today (e.g. this machine suffered something sudden and terminal) I'd buy the non-touch model, as the lower power consumption and larger battery would outweigh the modest bells and whistles of the higher-priced model even if that one were not significantly more expensive as well. Though there is the problem of only 2 ports on that one, which is presumably deliberate in order to push people to the more expensive model...
* Larger display in same form-factor: plenty of laptops make better use of the lid space than the MBPs. Or a smaller 15" device, but overall I think a compact 14" would be better.
* More battery rather than a thinner machine.
* A bump in the base storage (since I'm finding 512MB cramped already this basically comes down to "not such a premium for 1 TB". I don't care about clouds or external storage, I know what suits my usage).
* Not requiring a whole new set of dongles for basic tasks (which isn't so much a selling point itself, but rather the lack of an unselling point).
And despite what Apple say (which boils down to "we're right, as always") I would have uses for a touchscreen or 2-in-1, while I find the touch bar neither compelling nor repelling, simply irrelevant to my purchasing decisions. In fact if I were to buy one today (e.g. this machine suffered something sudden and terminal) I'd buy the non-touch model, as the lower power consumption and larger battery would outweigh the modest bells and whistles of the higher-priced model even if that one were not significantly more expensive as well. Though there is the problem of only 2 ports on that one, which is presumably deliberate in order to push people to the more expensive model...
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- a design that has enough space for a battery to power a decent processor on higher basic ghz for long enough time (pro machine -> rather more battery than less volume)
- at least one usb-a
- decent keyboard
- a trackpad of normal size. the old one was just right.
- magsafe would be nice, but is not totally a dealbreaker (although it hurts very much.)
I will take the first opportunity to get a 2015 13" mbp with 256 gb for about 1,3k euro, if such an opportunity should ever come. Don't care about any gimmicky touch bars, thinness, new colors, minimally better speakers/displays.
The new design is just inacceptable in so many ways apple will certainly not go back on. What have you (apple) done...
- at least one usb-a
- decent keyboard
- a trackpad of normal size. the old one was just right.
- magsafe would be nice, but is not totally a dealbreaker (although it hurts very much.)
I will take the first opportunity to get a 2015 13" mbp with 256 gb for about 1,3k euro, if such an opportunity should ever come. Don't care about any gimmicky touch bars, thinness, new colors, minimally better speakers/displays.
The new design is just inacceptable in so many ways apple will certainly not go back on. What have you (apple) done...
I really hope that comes at some point (of course I'm sure it won't).
Many people don't need a new way to work or do emoji's or slide our fingers all over gesture areas.
But we would like to be able to securely and easily unlock the Mac as well as use Apple Pay on the web.
The tech that replace the logicboard will be able to recover the data even if it is soldered
I already did back in June after WWDC, it was obvious where Apple was giong and I could not wait longer. It was 1400EUR for top 2015 13" with bonus beats Solo 2 that I gave to my daughter.
Finally got a chance to try the Touch Bar MacBook Pro, and am underwhelmed by the prospect of an upgrade at this point. The Touch Bar works perfectly, but it feels more like an unnecessary feature that's nice to have if you were upgrading regardless rather than a reason to upgrade. Meanwhile there are drawbacks like the haptic feedback touchpad, which doesn't feel as responsive for double or triple clicks. I had liked it initially when I tried the non-TB 13" but the keyboard I'm neutral about until I have more time to spend with it. Performance isn't significantly improved so the only upgrade for me is the display, which still doesn't have a perfect black level that I'm looking for which we may not get until Apple offers an OLED model.
If I were to upgrade I would be upgrading for the sake of upgrading like many on this forum are rather than for any particular features. As much as I'd like the improved color gamut I can live without it.
2012 Retina MacBook Pro was an absolute must that year, but I can see myself waiting till 2020 for a new MacBook Pro as much as I'm trying to convince myself to upgrade now.
If I were to upgrade I would be upgrading for the sake of upgrading like many on this forum are rather than for any particular features. As much as I'd like the improved color gamut I can live without it.
2012 Retina MacBook Pro was an absolute must that year, but I can see myself waiting till 2020 for a new MacBook Pro as much as I'm trying to convince myself to upgrade now.
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I'm not upgrading to a Late 2016 MB Pro.
At the rate my mid-2012 is going, I might not need to upgrade until 2019 or something. Mostly depends on how long it'll run a currently-supported OS.
However, if mine broke tomorrow, damned straight I'll get the new one.
At the rate my mid-2012 is going, I might not need to upgrade until 2019 or something. Mostly depends on how long it'll run a currently-supported OS.
However, if mine broke tomorrow, damned straight I'll get the new one.
I've had two of the new 15" models; the base and the mid-level. Both returned.
To answer your question in the thread title:
Apple should have:
Left the form factor alone - the 2012-2015 models are already small enough.
Used Skylake when it became available, not when it became obsolete
Provided a 32 GB RAM option for those who need it
Offered a better graphics card for those that need it
Kept the 99.5 watt/hour battery
Added 2 USB-C/TB3 ports while deleting one of the USB-A ports
Kept Magsafe
Kept the SD slot
Kept the extension cord in the box
Done more to insure QA of both hardware and software
Not used such an atrocious keyboard
Not turned the trackpad into the monstrosity it is on the 2016s.
Not raised the price by 20% for the base 15"
Not bothered with the emoji bar - it's actively distracting
Etc.
To answer your question in the thread title:
Apple should have:
Left the form factor alone - the 2012-2015 models are already small enough.
Used Skylake when it became available, not when it became obsolete
Provided a 32 GB RAM option for those who need it
Offered a better graphics card for those that need it
Kept the 99.5 watt/hour battery
Added 2 USB-C/TB3 ports while deleting one of the USB-A ports
Kept Magsafe
Kept the SD slot
Kept the extension cord in the box
Done more to insure QA of both hardware and software
Not used such an atrocious keyboard
Not turned the trackpad into the monstrosity it is on the 2016s.
Not raised the price by 20% for the base 15"
Not bothered with the emoji bar - it's actively distracting
Etc.
Smaller and lighter is better for most people.
Skylake was the best processor available at the time of the upgrade, which was also waiting on new AMD chips, an improved screen, and numerous other improvements.
32 GB RAM requires desktop RAM, which would really make people mad about battery life, even with a larger, heavier battery. See the Dell XPS.
What better graphics card can drive two 4K monitors, and uses as little energy? I know, you want bigger, heavier, hotter, louder. Not a big enough market for that to warrant all the redesign needed.
The battery life is improved with a smaller, lighter battery--that's a good thing.
MagSafe caused a lot more problems than its fans seem to know. Not surprised they dropped it.
An SD card slot would be nice. Where would it fit?
Most people like the keyboard and trackpad.
The base model is $100 less than the comparable 2015 model was when it came out.
You can easily turn off the emojis if you don't like them, but many do. I just ignore them myself.
I don't think Apple or most of its customers would do as well taking your advice.
On the off chance that someone from Apple actually reads this and even cares what people want (both of which seem increasingly improbable at this point)...
Most importantly, I wanted a "real" keyboard - not something designed to look like a keyboard.
I wanted the ability to connect to existing devices. A computer is manufactured for use today - not in 3 three years.
I would have loved the option of having an optical disc drive. To me, being "portable" entails always having everything one could possibly need at hand and in one package.
My early 2011 15" MBP is truly a "portable" device. If all I wanted on the go was a thinner, lighter device, I would content myself with my iPhone.
Most importantly, I wanted a "real" keyboard - not something designed to look like a keyboard.
I wanted the ability to connect to existing devices. A computer is manufactured for use today - not in 3 three years.
I would have loved the option of having an optical disc drive. To me, being "portable" entails always having everything one could possibly need at hand and in one package.
My early 2011 15" MBP is truly a "portable" device. If all I wanted on the go was a thinner, lighter device, I would content myself with my iPhone.
I've not upgraded because it seems Apple don't know where they're going, and I don't want to buy a computer that's going to be obsolete in no time (my first ever Mac was a Power PC which, just a matter of weeks later, became worthless when Apple announced they were no longer going to make Power PC Macs).
I think the Touchbar is a stop-gap to having full touchscreen Macs.
Apple went on about how the headphone jack is obsolete but then included one on the new MBP.
Apple haven't updated any other Mac line and the MacBook Air, MacBook and now MacBook Pro are all distinctly different - there's no common standards between them.
It just feels like Apple aren't sure what direction they're going in. I'm holding off until they settle back down.
I think the Touchbar is a stop-gap to having full touchscreen Macs.
Apple went on about how the headphone jack is obsolete but then included one on the new MBP.
Apple haven't updated any other Mac line and the MacBook Air, MacBook and now MacBook Pro are all distinctly different - there's no common standards between them.
It just feels like Apple aren't sure what direction they're going in. I'm holding off until they settle back down.
Put desktop hardware into a laptop.
How about simply putting desktop hardware in their desktops?
I have Late 2013 13" rMBP. I'm not going to update for at least 2-3 more years - this machine is very good. I wish I have bought 15" though.
Going back to topic - if I was going to buy 15" rMBP today, I'd certainly go with 2015 version. MagSafe and SD card reader are essential to me.
Bad battery and GPU reputations don't help. If I'm spending so much money, I need to be 100% confident that I'm buying good stuff. Right now there's a risk that those two components have engineering defects.
It's also worth to mention how little did rMBP change over those years. This Intel CPU is barely faster than Haswell. Battery life has not improved but has rather deteriorated. The SSD is faster but it already has been blazingly fast in 2013 - you cannot notice any difference in day to day use. The keyboard is not better it is just thinner.
The only aspects that have really improved are display and trackpad. The display is brigher and the trackpad is larger. It's the same notebook just a little better.
Going back to topic - if I was going to buy 15" rMBP today, I'd certainly go with 2015 version. MagSafe and SD card reader are essential to me.
Bad battery and GPU reputations don't help. If I'm spending so much money, I need to be 100% confident that I'm buying good stuff. Right now there's a risk that those two components have engineering defects.
It's also worth to mention how little did rMBP change over those years. This Intel CPU is barely faster than Haswell. Battery life has not improved but has rather deteriorated. The SSD is faster but it already has been blazingly fast in 2013 - you cannot notice any difference in day to day use. The keyboard is not better it is just thinner.
The only aspects that have really improved are display and trackpad. The display is brigher and the trackpad is larger. It's the same notebook just a little better.
Some of the improvements are small, as you say, but the new MBP 15 is still clearly better than the 2015, not a close call. A summary of the differences:
The new MBP 15" is clearly better than the 2015 model in:
-- Screen (brighter, better contrast, better color)
-- dGPU (early issues have been fixed already)
-- SSD speed (it is significantly faster)
-- External monitor support
-- Heat
-- Quietude
-- Speakers
-- Touch ID
-- Touch bar
-- Size/weight
It's also mostly better in regard to:
-- Battery life (better for ordinary use, as shown by professional reviews)
Mixed:
-- Ports (the new machine has by far the more powerful and flexible ports, but the 2015 has by far the more convenient ones for most people not yet living in the future)
-- Keyboard and trackpad (the new ones get mixed reviews compared to the old)
The one area in which the 2015 model has a clear, unmixed advantage is:
-- Replaceable/upgradable SSD (and if the motherboard fails, you won't need Apple's help to recover your data)
A better MagSafe would be nice, but the old one was a lot of trouble for a lot of users because of poor cable covering and dodgy connections.
Lower the price(Hopefully they will eventually do that). Replaceable/Upgradable SSD(This also applies to the 11"/12" RMB)(so that people can easily repair and replace the SSDs by themselves) and improve the battery life.
If they don´t resolve the SSD issue + a lot of other issues(Don´t f*ck up with the Imac and Mac Pro) then i see apple going towards the path they went with Scully/Microsoft with Balmer which is quite sad.
If they don´t resolve the SSD issue + a lot of other issues(Don´t f*ck up with the Imac and Mac Pro) then i see apple going towards the path they went with Scully/Microsoft with Balmer which is quite sad.
Keep HDMI and USB 3.0 ports and mix in a USB C port
Keep Mag Safe
Keep Glowing Apple Logo
Make battery last 12 hours
Make keyboard less noisy so people don't have you weird looks in the library when you're typing on a top of the line laptop you dished out $2000+ on.
Good try Apple but I'm waiting on the next one.
Keep Mag Safe
Keep Glowing Apple Logo
Make battery last 12 hours
Make keyboard less noisy so people don't have you weird looks in the library when you're typing on a top of the line laptop you dished out $2000+ on.
Good try Apple but I'm waiting on the next one.
I just wish that there were fewer issues. I know the forums magnify issues, but there seem to be issues with the 15" graphics, battery life, fit and finish (scratches out of the box), etc.
I guess these are to be expected with a newly designed model. But, just like cars, I will wait a year and see if I should upgrade to the second year with the new design. By then more bugs should be ironed out and USB-C peripherals will be more plentiful.
I guess these are to be expected with a newly designed model. But, just like cars, I will wait a year and see if I should upgrade to the second year with the new design. By then more bugs should be ironed out and USB-C peripherals will be more plentiful.
lol - Yes...heaven forbid a buyer of a $2-4k laptop would be living and working in the "present"...
That sounds a lot like "today" - as in "work needs to be done right now" not "in the future".
Joking aside - a mix of legacy ports and some USB-C would have been nice, especially given how exceptionally limited the USB-C devices and connections are in the wild (again...in the real world that exists right now that buyers need to operate within immediately upon leaving the Apple Store or receiving their new laptop in the mail)
Apple gets way too much praise for "pushing things forward" - There was a way to do that without pulling the rug completely out all at once, especially on pro users who have established connections, workflows and devices.