HomePod For those who think HomePod sounds like it's got a low pass filter on it...

[8CoreWhore]

You know what it sounds like to me? It sounds like the tweeters are trapped inside a hard plastic tube and they are being reflected back inside, getting mixed up, and then radiating out through the plastic wall. HHmmmnn... maybe because that is PRECISELY what is happening. There are 7 speakers inside a hard plastic cylinder.

 

[dannys1]

You know what it sounds like to me? It sounds like the tweeters are trapped inside a hard plastic tube and they are being reflected back inside, getting mixed up, and then radiating out through the plastic wall. HHmmmnn... maybe because that is PRECISELY what is happening. There are 7 speakers inside a hard plastic cylinder. View attachment 751186

You know, that’s a very good point, and it does.

 

[douglasf13]

I don't know. Seems to be what more and more reviews are saying. Here's another audiophile perspective:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/reviews/apple-homepod-review-an-audiophile-perspective-r697/

The fact that the guy used ...And Justice for All, which was ridiculed for its sound when released, is interesting for testing purposes. That being said, I love that album, and I actually just listened to Shortest Straw on the HomePod when I received today, and I was surprised how relatively good it sounds for a small speaker.

I think that's really the point, from my limited experience with the device. What we have is something that potentially sounds better than anything in its size and price range, and it may even punch above its class when compared to something like the $1K speakers that the earlier audiophile reviewer compared it with, but we're really off the deep end if we're comparing it to a full-on $150K hi-fi setup. I'm still likely to dust off the records and use my Dual turntable into a Marantz receiver if static listening is the goal, and that's not some amazing Hi-Fi setup, but the HomePod seems great for listening to music around the house casually, and I think eventually connecting two in stereo will be an improvement, but I likely won't bother.

Hi-fi is a never ending black hole of opinions, so at least the first audiophile provided some actual numbers, which will obviously be debated ad nauseum. Heck, if that that reviewer is right about a Fletcher Munson Curve being used on the HomePod, that's enough for a decade's worth of debate. The use of the "loudness" button, which employs such a curve on old receivers, is still debated all the time.
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You know what it sounds like to me? It sounds like the tweeters are trapped inside a hard plastic tube and they are being reflected back inside, getting mixed up, and then radiating out through the plastic wall. HHmmmnn... maybe because that is PRECISELY what is happening. There are 7 speakers inside a hard plastic cylinder. View attachment 751186

LOL I'm sure Tom Holman has an idea what he's doing, but, either way, those are apparently Balanced Mode Radiators, which disperse sound in both the horizontal and vertical axis equally.

 

[8CoreWhore]

LOL I'm sure Tom Holman has an idea what he's doing, but, either way, those are apparently Balanced Mode Radiators, which disperse sound in both the horizontal and vertical axis equally.

Are any other Tom Holman speakers enclosed in a plastic cylinder? And all the other engineers out there that know what they are doing, are any of their speakers enclosed in a plastic cylinder?

So imagine if the HomePod was made without that rigid plastic barrier, and it was kinda fragile to pick up a move around because of it... and Apple told us we had to pick it up from the top and bottom so we don't crush the cloth speaker grill... does that sound like some Apple would be comfortable with? Tom Holman may have been over-ruled.

Look how important engineers considered cloth grills.. it's important that doesn't effect the sound passing through... and it's important it doesn't reflect sound back inside...

But suddenly it's not important anymore and not only that, it's so unimportant that you can make it out of solid hard plastic. But hey, if Tom did it it must be OK.

The only time my HomePod sounds acceptable is with the volume above 50% or so. But below that it feels like it's trapped. And low and behold, iFixit shows us that to get to the drivers they had to use a hacksaw to get inside the plastic cylinder.

But even loud it kinda sounds... trapped inside... it doesn't breathe.

I don't expect much from laptops, but they did the same thing with the MacBook Pros and probably other products. Sounds like the sounds vibrate the whole case... the little holes in the MBP are fake.

https://www.macworld.com/article/31...er-grilles-and-hard-to-replace-touch-bar.html

 

[douglasf13]

Are any other Tom Holman speakers enclosed in a plastic cylinder? And all the other engineers out there that know what they are doing, are any of their speakers enclosed in a plastic cylinder?

So imagine if the HomePod was made without that rigid plastic barrier, and it was kinda fragile to pick up a move around because of it... and Apple told us we had to pick it up from the top and bottom so we don't crush the cloth speaker grill... does that sound like some Apple would be comfortable with? Tom Holman may have been over-ruled.

Look how important engineers considered cloth grills.. it's important that doesn't effect the sound passing through... and it's important it doesn't reflect sound back inside...

But suddenly it's not important anymore and not only that, it's so unimportant that you can make it out of solid hard plastic. But hey, if Tom did it it must be OK.

The only time my HomePod sounds acceptable is with the volume above 50% or so. But below that it feels like it's trapped. And low and behold, iFixit shows us that to get to the drivers they had to use a hacksaw to get inside the plastic cylinder.

But even loud it kinda sounds... trapped inside... it doesn't breathe.

I don't expect much from laptops, but they did the same thing with the MacBook Pros and probably other products. Sounds like the sounds vibrate the whole case... the little holes in the MBP are fake.

https://www.macworld.com/article/31...er-grilles-and-hard-to-replace-touch-bar.html

Apple could have easily vented the enclosure to allow sound to escape out the side, but this thing was designed as a pretty complicated little system pushing sound upward and out. Are you sure you just don't have a particularly bad sounding room? Or maybe your ears...

 

[betasp]

I don’t really understand the expectations. The HomePod isn’t a studio monitor, the response isn’t expected to be flat. There are $800 studio monitors that produce flatter sounds than $10,000 audiophile speakers.

With the said, any colored sound signature is going to produce subjective outcomes. Like Sonos, Bose and now the HomePod, I am sure many consumers will like the sound and that’s what the speaker is designed for.


Note: I’m no audiophile but I used to mix for a living back in the day. I use a Marantz surround receiver to Energy CS10 speakers in 5.1 configuration. My zone 2 runs to two KRK Rokit 6s with KRK 10s sub. One config colored to my liking and the other pretty dang flat.

 

[deeside81]

You know, that’s a very good point, and it does.

It does that exactly. I couldn’t really put a finger on it but it sounds muffled. Uh so disappointed. Once you’ve heard a great sounding sound system you will obviously be disappointed. I have 14 days to return and still debating it. The reason I asked earlier if the EQ settings could improve it to the point where it could match the warmth of my S300 is it would help me make my decision to return it or not. Do you think future software updates and maybe the stereo with Airplay 2 will improve the muffled sound?

Advice would be much appreciated.

 

[deeside81]

Yeah, if you clicked on this thread you're thinking the same as me.

Unfortunately there's no problem EQ yet - Homepod has the hardware to sound pretty decent, but the default sound is woeful, too muddy, too much mid, the bass is there to "wow" people when they first play it and there's just no top end at all. It sounds like someones thrown their coat over a decent speaker.

The only way to hack the EQ at the moment is to AirPlay from a Mac and use the EQ in iTunes - it appears to stop Homepod loading music direct from iTunes Cloud/Apple Music and actually stream from the Mac, so you get that old 3 second delay before things happen with AirPlay, I guess that'll be better when AP2 is out.

No way of doing it on iOS, but if anyones interesting in having a little fiddle, this is a much better starting point for the Homepod sound - it still needs a bit of tweaking, perhaps pull 16k down a touch, material dependant and location as well - but I can actual listen to stuff now.

It really needs to be built into the speaker though so it applies to things like the news report - which currently sounds like someone is talking to you with something covering their mouth (and backed up by a subwoofer)
​

What preset equaliser setting would that be in iOS? Rock?

 

[dannys1]

I don’t really understand the expectations. The HomePod isn’t a studio monitor, the response isn’t expected to be flat. There are $800 studio monitors that produce flatter sounds than $10,000 audiophile speakers.

You're correct of course. My expectations weren't that it would sound like a studio monitor of course - but that it would stray away from the Bose/Sonos/Boombox sound tuning, especially when they went on about sound quality so much. I expected perhaps the speaker version of a pair of Sennheiser 650 headphones for instance.

So it was just disappointing to me when I got it out and found it was tuned EXACTLY the way I hoped it wouldn't be, with a muffled, almost low passed top end - and very exaggerated bass.

But then it's just silly you've got a random bloke in an apartment on Reddit telling everyone it's got a near perfectly flat response and people all believing him. Weird.

 

[Craiger]

I love that in the same thread we are bashing audiophiles and then bashing Apple's audio engineers because we clearly know better.

I guess this was to be expected. The audio world is an opinionated bunch.

 

[za9ra22]

You're correct of course. My expectations weren't that it would sound like a studio monitor of course - but that it would stray away from the Bose/Sonos/Boombox sound tuning, especially when they went on about sound quality so much. I expected perhaps the speaker version of a pair of Sennheiser 650 headphones for instance.

So it was just disappointing to me when I got it out and found it was tuned EXACTLY the way I hoped it wouldn't be, with a muffled, almost low passed top end - and very exaggerated bass.

But then it's just silly you've got a random bloke in an apartment on Reddit telling everyone it's got a near perfectly flat response and people all believing him. Weird.

What I find curious is that my experience of a HomePod in my living room is absolutely different from the characterisation of extended, muddy bass and muffled sound. My HomePod sounds balanced, and detailed. It is certainly not punchy and certainly does not compete with speakers of significantly greater cost, but it isn't as you describe yours to be. Indeed, that description would apply much more to an original Echo, which the HomePod outperforms by a wide margin.

It is not really possible to dismiss positive reviews from many sources as irrelevant simply because they don't match yours because they are not. That is not to say that your experience is irrelevant either of course, but there is something going on here that is nothing to do with Apple engineers getting it wrong, and other users misreporting or mishearing.

It isn't at all silly that someone has taken the time to conduct a quite thorough review, and measurement of a HomePod, and posted the findings on Reddit, nor that people who have listened to one believe what is being said. It is simply impossible to believe that all the reviewers are wrong just because some seem to have different experiences. Personally, I'm not interested in measured frequency response because that is fairly meaningless in terms of individual room acoustics with their resonances, nodes and anti-nodes, not to mention wide variations in human hearing and sensitivities, but I am very interested in perceived acoustic performance, and in my instance, I'm on the side of those who report a rather better acoustic profile than you are experiencing.

I can't answer to why there is such a difference, but there obviously is.

 

[dannys1]

It is not really possible to dismiss positive reviews from many sources as irrelevant simply because they don't match yours because they are not.

I haven't dismissed the positive reviews - you seem to be miss understanding what I am saying. I said i'm personally disappointed it doesn't have a the sound tuning I hoped it might have. I can fully understand why some people love it and why the tech sites love it - i've said numerous times, for most people it's better than 90% (if not 100%) if speakers they'll have heard before and obviously blows away Sonos, Bose, JBL and the Google/Amazon spakers.

It isn't at all silly that someone has taken the time to conduct a quite thorough review

I didn't say it was silly he did the review - I said it was silly that all the online blogs and publications took a randomers review as gospel is all - it should have stayed on Reddit where it belonged.

 

[za9ra22]

I haven't dismissed the positive reviews - you seem to be miss understanding what I am saying. I said i'm personally disappointed it doesn't have a the sound tuning I hoped it might have. I can fully understand why some people love it and why the tech sites love it - i've said numerous times, for most people it's better than 90% (if not 100%) if speakers they'll have heard before and obviously blows away Sonos, Bose, JBL and the Google/Amazon spakers.

That does not even begin to address the point. That point is simply that your experience does not match mine. Indeed, the experience of a number of users who report the same issues as you do, do not match the experiences of what seems to be a large number of others, who hear something significantly better.

This doesn't seem at all likely to be because, to paraphrase some of your earlier posts, people aren't listening, or hearing, right. So what, therefore, is causing that difference. That is my question, and the purpose of my post.

I didn't say it was silly he did the review - I said it was silly that all the online blogs and publications took a randomers review as gospel is all - it should have stayed on Reddit where it belonged.

Not exactly a 'randomer', surely. There aren't that many people who have the equipment to conduct the tests, and the time or inclination to write a review on the subject of that coherence and thoroughness. Quite unusual, I would say, and since it was both subjective and objective in nature, it is hardly surprising that many people read it and concluded that the author both knows what he or she is talking about, and is therefore a possibly trusted source. Personally, I have no reason to think that any thoughtful contribution to the subject should 'remain' anywhere. It belongs anywhere that people find it interesting.

 

[vipergts2207]

That does not even begin to address the point. That point is simply that your experience does not match mine. Indeed, the experience of a number of users who report the same issues as you do, do not match the experiences of what seems to be a large number of others, who hear something significantly better.

This doesn't seem at all likely to be because, to paraphrase some of your earlier posts, people aren't listening, or hearing, right. So what, therefore, is causing that difference. That is my question, and the purpose of my post.

Some of differences in opinion probably come down to how much experience people have with listening to different audio equipment. If HomePod is the nicest speaker someone has ever heard (this is probably a large percentage of people), then of course they will think it sounds great.

If someone is used to listening to stuff costing a couple grand or more, they may have an easier time picking out flaws in the HomePod. Either way though, most people are saying the HomePod is really great for what it is.

Some of the differences may also come from poor placement of the speaker, or the HomePod not doing a great job of compensating for the specific room with its DSP.

 

[Z3man]

You know what it sounds like to me? It sounds like the tweeters are trapped inside a hard plastic tube and they are being reflected back inside, getting mixed up, and then radiating out through the plastic wall. HHmmmnn... maybe because that is PRECISELY what is happening. There are 7 speakers inside a hard plastic cylinder. View attachment 751186

Bloody hell, no wonder it sounds muffled, what with this and the over powering false boomy bass mine will be going back.

I have tried my hardest to like the HomePod as i had really been looking froward to it but the sound quality is just not good enough. Now i know why, it's all trapped inside a plastic tube, the sound cant get out and it sounds like it as well.

On top of this Siri is pretty hopeless, i cant understand how the HP is getting so many good reviews, it really hasn't got much going for it. My Loewe Speaker2go portable bluetooth speaker sounds better, mind you is was quite expensive, about £250 about 4-5 years ago.

I am really disappointed with Apple, they hadn't release anything i had been interested in for 2 or 3 years, so was really looking forward to the HomePod. I have tried my hardest to like it but i just don't, every time i listen to it i cant wait to turn if off.

I wonder who will be the first one to start drilling holes in the plastic tube to let the sound out.

 

[douglasf13]

Some of differences in opinion probably come down to how much experience people have with listening to different audio equipment. If HomePod is the nicest speaker someone has ever heard (this is probably a large percentage of people), then of course they will think it sounds great.

If someone is used to listening to stuff costing a couple grand or more, they may have an easier time picking out flaws in the HomePod. Either way though, most people are saying the HomePod is really great for what it is.

Some of the differences may also come from poor placement of the speaker, or the HomePod not doing a great job of compensating for the specific room with its DSP.

I'm not sure it really even has much to do with experience. Both recording processes and listening equipment has varied so widely over the last couple of decades that opinions have gotten very scattered.

It reminds me of when I worked in a music store, and people comparing high end compressors, mic pres, acoustic guitars, etc., would argue all day about what sounds "good." Inevitably, they'd just buy the most expensive thing to solidify the confidence in their choice.
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I wonder who will be the first one to start drilling holes in the plastic tube to let the sound out.

That's a terrible idea. This complicated thing was clearly designed as a system, and that will likely make the sounds quality worse. They could've easily vented the enclosure, if that improved things. Plus, BMR speakers disperse sound vertically.

 

[za9ra22]

Some of differences in opinion probably come down to how much experience people have with listening to different audio equipment. If HomePod is the nicest speaker someone has ever heard (this is probably a large percentage of people), then of course they will think it sounds great.

If someone is used to listening to stuff costing a couple grand or more, they may have an easier time picking out flaws in the HomePod. Either way though, most people are saying the HomePod is really great for what it is.

I have worked in the audio industry for many years. I know what I'm listening to and how to assess it. And I can judge the performance of the HomePod in my living room. I think it unhelpful (I'm not aiming this at you, but in broad generality) to assume that ignorance of true quality, or inexperience with good equipment, is the reason why the HomePod is getting broadly very positive reports.

That's why I am really curious about the disparity in performance. I don't assume that those reporting issues with the quality of audio aren't 'listening right' somehow, I pay them the courtesy of assuming they know what they're talking about, which suggests a design flaw or fault which is causing some HomePods to underperform.

I don't think it is a matter of room placement - I've moved mine to a number of locations and it remains remarkably consistent in a room with very familiar and known acoustics, but your thought that it may be that some HomePods are not compensating for the room or placement correctly does seem quite probable.

 

[Hyper Driver]

How does one define an audiophile? Do people go to school for this or is it just someone who spends a lot of money on audio gear?

We are all audiophiles to a certain extent. I would define an expert or master of the science as one having experience at analyzing output data when applying mechanical inputs. They can monitor the values of each input change with an understanding of the results, both the physical and spatial ..... and explain to others.


Undoubtedly schools teach audio phonics, acoustics, and the like.

 

[vipergts2207]

I have worked in the audio industry for many years. I know what I'm listening to and how to assess it. And I can judge the performance of the HomePod in my living room. I think it unhelpful (I'm not aiming this at you, but in broad generality) to assume that ignorance of true quality, or inexperience with good equipment, is the reason why the HomePod is getting broadly very positive reports.

That's why I am really curious about the disparity in performance. I don't assume that those reporting issues with the quality of audio aren't 'listening right' somehow, I pay them the courtesy of assuming they know what they're talking about, which suggests a design flaw or fault which is causing some HomePods to underperform.

I don't think it is a matter of room placement - I've moved mine to a number of locations and it remains remarkably consistent in a room with very familiar and known acoustics, but your thought that it may be that some HomePods are not compensating for the room or placement correctly does seem quite probable.

I didn't intend to imply that everyone who thinks the HomePod sounds good is ignorant of how to judge audio quality. Based on many reviews that's clearly not the case. Just that those people who think it sounds lacking are more likely to have heard good equipment than the population at large.

 

[Hyper Driver]

I didn't intend to imply that everyone who thinks the HomePod sounds good is ignorant of how to judge audio quality. Based on many reviews that's clearly not the case. Just that those people who think it sounds lacking are more likely to have heard good equipment than the population at large.

I would think that the vast majority of those opinions are based on a variety of parameters that would include a lack of audiophile expertise, and of course their prejudices.

 

[falainber]

So, how does this thing work? This plastic shell can't be accustically transparent, can it? Do the tweeters fire at it and drive it and it, in turns, fires omnidirectionally? In this case I doubt the is any "beamforming" here, just a can that fires in all directions.

 

[vipergts2207]

So, how does this thing work? This plastic shell can't be accustically transparent, can it? Do the tweeters fire at it and drive it and it, in turns, fires omnidirectionally? In this case I doubt the is any "beamforming" here, just a can that fires in all directions.

No the shell wouldn't even be close to AT. It could however compensate for frequencies that are blocked by the shell by playing them louder so that by the time they exit the shell, the SPL for those frequencies are where they should be.

 

[jav6454]

Well, the woofer is all but little.

Needs to be bigger to overcome that type of electronic limitation. Also, more power is needed.

 

[douglasf13]

So, how does this thing work? This plastic shell can't be accustically transparent, can it? Do the tweeters fire at it and drive it and it, in turns, fires omnidirectionally? In this case I doubt the is any "beamforming" here, just a can that fires in all directions.

BMR speakers fire vertically, so the sound would go directly up the tube.

 

[vipergts2207]

BMR speakers fire vertically, so the sound would go directly up the tube.

They don’t fire vertically so much as their dispersion is equivalent in both the horizontal and vertical planes. It’s not as if sound is only coming out of the driver in the vertical direction. Much of the sound being produced is still being reflected back by the enclosure.