Ford Plans to Stick With CarPlay as GM Moves to Phase Out Support

[theLedger]

What happens when some new app becomes available? You will be at GM’s mercy whether or not you can use it. The advantage of CarPlay is that it offers a way for app developers to get onto a car’s interface. GM will now become the gatekeeper. Are they going to create a platform for independent developers or will it requires millions to get your icon on GM’s dashboard?

GM is looking to monetize the interface. That is all. It took Apple years to create the UI and APIs based on their deep domain knowledge. That is not easily duplicated.

 

[vipergts2207]

Tesla still posting record deliveries, are they not? https://electrek.co/2023/04/02/tesla-tsla-confirms-q1-2023-record-deliveries-beats-expectations/

After massive price drops, yes. However, their most recent reported month also recorded a 32.5% drop in sales YOY. Additionally, if they're having to cut prices by 20% to keep deliveries up, that isn't a good sign.

Tesla Sales Figures – U.S Market

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

 

[1129846]

I disagree whole heartedly. GM isn’t going to lose staggering numbers because they don’t offer car play or android auto. GM offers features that other manufactures don’t. I had a Serria 1500 loaded and it had a HUD, screen rear view mirror, etc. my 2021 F250 loaded doesn’t have any of those. GM offers meany premium features on their vehicles that people want and will capture new buyers.

Your Mach e comparison is apples and oranges. Mach E numbers captured more new buyers because of the EV push and that was one of the few options that wasn’t a poorly made Tesla.

I dont think GM going to lose that many people. I think the biggest thing is they are going to give up getting a lot of new customers who are writing them off due to no car play. The other loses they are going to risk is it is going to cause a lot of people to look around and see how GM stands up for their needs.

For me personally GM was already pretty far down on my list and the no car play things has caused me to completely write them off. It was the final piece that just made them not worth it. Then again I do use wireless carplay every day and bluetooth for things well just sucks. I can promise you the GM SDK is not going to be picked up my a lot of app devs as most are that do make things for auto are trying to get away from manufacture SDKs and go either Android Auto or Car play.

It all about who has the features you wants. You have the HUD screen. I personally don't care about HUDs and the few cars I have driven with them the HUDs did not do much and I could give them up. But things like heated powered seats with memory settings are a must have. Car play is pretty high on the list. All features I can easily get in a car. Lack the must have list you get written off. Carplay/ Android Auto is really close to must have for me.

 

[1129846]

What happens when some new app becomes available? You will be at GM’s mercy whether or not you can use it. The advantage of CarPlay is that it offers a way for app developers to get onto a car’s interface. GM will now become the gatekeeper. Are they going to create a platform for independent developers or will it requires millions to get your icon on GM’s dashboard?

GM is looking to monetize the interface. That is all. It took Apple years to create the UI and APIs based on their deep domain knowledge. That is not easily duplicated.

If if they do not charge for the SDK I dont see a lot of developers using it. It is just one more thing to be maintained for a small group of people. Things that historically the manufactures suck at keeping up to date.
Car play and Android auto basically are just 2 SDK that cover near 100% are users and by far the largest 2 groups.

 

[tripsync]

After massive price drops, yes. However, their most recent reported month also recorded a 32.5% drop in sales YOY. Additionally, if they're having to cut prices by 20% to keep deliveries up, that isn't a good sign.

Tesla Sales Figures – U.S Market

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

LOL

January 2022: 37,594
February 2022: 36,202
March 2022: 89,575
April 2022: 40,568
May 2022: 39.066

talk about cherry picking data, no other month had even close to 90k deliveries so far, but you're using this one single month as the basis for your side. any number of things could have happened in March 2022 that caused a weird spike in deliveries.

bad argument.

 

[deathcab]

Absolutely love my Rivian R1S, but would love it that much more if they ever added CarPlay.

 

[palev]

Props to them for this. Also...Even though I like it, I wish they hadn't used the Mustang branding for the Mach-E. Still doesn't work for me.

So agree with you about the Mustang branding. Worst thing they could have done with that.

 

[cardfan]

No CarPlay or android means no consideration. But then again GM wouldn’t be on my list anyways.

 

[batmccoy]

GM made a deal with Google. That’s why. Ford’s point of view is valid on not sharing data, but an automaker should fight for control of the car. I would limit Apple and Google both to the Infotainment screen.

 

[BC2009]

apple music for me is buggy, yes. but that's a temporary issue and can be solved over time. and that's not enough for me to ditch an EV for another considering the vertical integration, lack of dealership model, advanced drive assist features, and future software updates.

Where Tesla really really shines is the ease of software updates and lack of dealership model in my book.

I am nervous about the "advanced drive assist features" because I experienced phantom braking twice on one road trip (once on the way and the other time on the way back). Thankfully, I instinctively knew to hit the accelerator to stop it. The first time it happened, I had just told the car to change lanes back to the right lane after passing a car by hitting the signal. I was about 6 or 7 car lengths ahead and once the lane change completed I was braking hard. The guy that I passed must have thought me a jerk for passing him and then braking. The second time it happened, there was nobody around and I was cresting a hill.

I read Tesla is doing a software update and a hardware update to stop the phantom braking issue by reactivating sensors on cars that were previously deactivated and installing additional sensors on cars that lack them. Somehow the FSD and adaptive cruise control gets confused and thinks there is somebody or something in front of you with the current setup and very specific conditions.

I know that despite the phantom braking issue that Tesla accidents are way lower than other cars and by-and-large the driver assist works great. I just very much enjoy my adaptive cruise control and I was scared to use it in a Tesla after that. The vehicle I was driving did have the FSD beta installed, but I only had adaptive cruise engaged. I was not fan of FSD drifting me to the right whenever an exit lane opened up from the right lane, only to signal and move left once I passed the exit. My Nissan's Pro Pilot does the same thing and I don't use it for that reason -- the lane centering algorithm is very similar to Tesla's in this behavior. FSD and ProPilot are weird because it is like being in the passenger seat and thinking the driver is not doing what you would expect, but you are actually in the drivers seat and the car is not behaving how you would expect. I probably have too many control issues to let the car fully drive itself. But I love adaptive cruise.

 

[acconda81]

Why on earth would you do that to yourselves as a business lol i would ever ever ever ever buy a car without it now, love it and it works wonderfully from my experience, although only had it so far on Fords

 

[mukiex]

I get why people ape the achievements of the industry leader, but I have no clue why in the absolute hell you would ape the MISTAKES.

Am a Tesla owner. I like the infotainment system IN SPITE of Tesla's special snowflake [bologna sausage], not because of it. I've been pondering getting a Carplay "adapter", which would amount to a literal extra screen, since the day I took delivery.

 

[tripsync]

I am nervous about the "advanced drive assist features" because I experienced phantom braking twice on one road trip (once on the way and the other time on the way back). Thankfully, I instinctively knew to hit the accelerator to stop it. The first time it happened, I had just told the car to change lanes back to the right lane after passing a car by hitting the signal. I was about 6 or 7 car lengths ahead and once the lane change completed I was braking hard. The guy that I passed must have thought me a jerk for passing him and then braking. The second time it happened, there was nobody around and I was cresting a hill.

I'm on the latest FSD beta and the switch to the single stack on highways eliminated phantom brakes on the 10 freeway for me (coming from LA, phantom brakes were common through underpasses).

Not saying there will never be another phantom brake but it's been, at least, substantially reduced from a software update.

I read Tesla is doing a software update and a hardware update to stop the phantom braking issue by reactivating sensors on cars that were previously deactivated and installing additional sensors on cars that lack them.

Don't know where you're getting that information but there's no indication of reinstalling sensors. There is an upgraded HD radar in newer Model S but we don't know what Tesla is doing with that yet.

Somehow the FSD and adaptive cruise control gets confused and thinks there is somebody or something in front of you with the current setup and very specific conditions.

Phantom brakes before were primarily caused by the radar data being extremely lossy which is one of the reasons why they got rid of radar. I think Andrej from Tesla explained this in one of the presentations.

I know that despite the phantom braking issue that Tesla accidents are way lower than other cars and by-and-large the driver assist works great. I just very much enjoy my adaptive cruise control and I was scared to use it in a Tesla after that. The vehicle I was driving did have the FSD beta installed, but I only had adaptive cruise engaged. I was not fan of FSD drifting me to the right whenever an exit lane opened up from the right lane, only to signal and move left once I passed the exit. My Nissan's Pro Pilot does the same thing and I don't use it for that reason -- the lane centering algorithm is very similar to Tesla's in this behavior. FSD and ProPilot are weird because it is like being in the passenger seat and thinking the driver is not doing what you would expect, but you are actually in the drivers seat and the car is not behaving how you would expect. I probably have too many control issues to let the car fully drive itself. But I love adaptive cruise.

Also Ford Blue Cruise experiences phantom brakes so it's not really a Tesla specific issue.

 

[vipergts2207]

LOL

January 2022: 37,594
February 2022: 36,202
March 2022: 89,575
April 2022: 40,568
May 2022: 39.066

talk about cherry picking data, no other month had even close to 90k deliveries so far, but you're using this one single month as the basis for your side. any number of things could have happened in March 2022 that caused a weird spike in deliveries.

bad argument.

"Tesla's share price dropped almost 10% on Thursday, cutting more than $50 billion from its market value, after Musk said the company would discount as needed to drive up demand."

Pointing out a 20% price drop in order to maintain sales growth is a bad argument? Even Musk admits that was the purpose, but ok lol. You don't need to drop prices to drive up demand if people are already clamoring for your product. Just look at the original HomePod. One of the few times Apple has ever reduced the price of a product and it's because they weren't moving in high enough volume.

"Musk said this week that Tesla would be able to cut prices now - even potentially to zero profit - and earn more later on software and services when it has technology available that allows for autonomous driving.

That's not sustainable.

And where's the Cybertruck? Vaporware?

Musk's price cuts show challenge for Tesla's product strategy, Ford CEO says

Electric car giant Tesla's decision to cut prices to drive up sales volume reflects the pressure it faces from competition and an ageing product line-up, Ford Chief Executive Jim Farley said on Thursday.

www.reuters.com

 

[tripsync]

"Tesla's share price dropped almost 10% on Thursday, cutting more than $50 billion from its market value, after Musk said the company would discount as needed to drive up demand."

Pointing out a 20% price drop in order to maintain sales growth is a bad argument? Even Musk admits that was the purpose, but ok lol.

no. I pointed to your cherry picking of an unusual month in 2022 and making comparisons against that as the bad argument. but it sounds like you're walking back on that YoY statement.

sorry, were you expecting Tesla to keep the extremely inflated covid prices forever for their cars even after interest rates increase and expanded production at their new factories? that's a ridiculous assertion.

And where's the Cybertruck? Vaporware?

Strawman argument.

 

[AZhappyjack]

Monetization.

When you're forced to use the car's infotainment suite, the car can collect additional data about what you're doing. That data can be sold for profit.

Pretty simple.

Typical corporate greed... when the cost of entry is $35-40K, just keep gouging your customers - sell them the "service" that spies on them so you can sell their private/personal data.

Happy with my Fords - have owned multiple Ford vehicles in my lifetime, and am quite happy with them... love my '21 Ford Ranger Lariat, an my wife loves her '22 Edge.

GM can go pound sand.

 

[vipergts2207]

no. I pointed to your cherry picking of an unusual month in 2022 and making comparisons against that as the bad argument. but it sounds like you're walking back on that YoY statement.

sorry, were you expecting Tesla to keep the extremely inflated covid prices forever for their cars even after interest rates increase and expanded production. that's a ridiculous assertion.

The comment you replied to had three sentences, two of which were related to Tesla's massive sales cuts. You hadn't responded to two thirds of what I said until just now. The average new car price dropped just 1% in April. Tesla has now cut the Model Y by 20% total. But sure, pretend that the massive cuts are because they're being benevolent and choosing to come off inflated covid prices. The broader car market tells a very different story. Even compared to their closest competitors the price cuts are staggering.

Average New Car Price Actually Drops, but It's Still over $48,000

The cost of a new vehicle has only gone down a little over 1 percent, but after months on end of relentless price increases, we'll take it.

www.caranddriver.com

Strawman argument.

It wasn't an argument; it was just pointing out more of Tesla's failures.

 

[vipergts2207]

Tesla lost money for years. It was money Pitt, subsidies and funds from the feds kept them afloat. First time they ever made money was in 2020, and had pretty good run in 21, and 22.

Not to mention Tesla's gravy train from Stellantis buying CAFE credits ends in 2024.

 

[tripsync]

The comment you replied to had three sentences, two of which were related to Tesla's massive sales cuts. You hadn't responded to two thirds of what I said until just now.

You asked "Pointing out a 20% price drop in order to maintain sales growth is a bad argument?". I pointed out that your argument was based on March 2022 data which was an anomaly considering all other months never reached those delivery numbers.

What else do you want me to respond to? "You don't need to drop prices to drive up demand "? I already responded, covid increased prices substantially. If you looked at all of the price changes since beginning of 2021, all trims except highest trims (performance) are still more expensive. So again, it's not realistic to expect Tesla to keep inflated covid prices forever.

"Musk said this week that Tesla would be able to cut prices now - even potentially to zero profit "
What response do want? This is literally true, in fact other car companies have sold their cars for a NET LOSS because they know they'll make it back from service/maintenance. Only this time for Tesla, they won't make their money from maintenance but from software. Even if it's not self driving, plenty take up the Enhanced Autopilot package which is just practically pure margins other automakers drool over.

The average new car price dropped just 1% in April. Tesla has now cut the Model Y by 20% total. But sure, pretend that the massive cuts are because they're being benevolent and choosing to come off inflated covid prices. The broader car market tells a very different story. Even compared to their closest competitors the price cuts are staggering.

Again, inflated covid pricing. All trims except the highest trims (performance) are LITERALLY still more expensive than the start of 2021. And they've even had to raise prices on Model S/3/X/Y in the past few days. And other automakers can't lower their prices because they're already on razor thin margins. There's a reason why other automakers are losing so much volume while Tesla continues to grow. Just because average new car price dropped 1% in April doesn't mean much especially when automakers rely on dealerships to report the numbers which are delayed. So what's your point?

It wasn't an argument; it was just pointing out more of Tesla's failures.

Says a lot when you're trying to bring up something off topic.

 

[vipergts2207]

You asked "Pointing out a 20% price drop in order to maintain sales growth is a bad argument?". I pointed out that your argument was based on March 2022 data which was an anomaly considering all other months never reached those delivery numbers.

What else do you want me to respond to? "You don't need to drop prices to drive up demand "? I already responded, covid increased prices substantially. If you looked at all of the price changes since beginning of 2021, all trims except highest trims (performance) are still more expensive. So again, it's not realistic to expect Tesla to keep inflated covid prices forever.

"Musk said this week that Tesla would be able to cut prices now - even potentially to zero profit "
What response do want? This is literally true, in fact other car companies have sold their cars for a NET LOSS because they know they'll make it back from service/maintenance. Only this time for Tesla, they won't make their money from maintenance but from software. Even if it's not self driving, plenty take up the Enhanced Autopilot package which is just practically pure margins other automakers drool over.



Again, inflated covid pricing. All trims except the highest trims (performance) are LITERALLY still more expensive than the start of 2021. And they've even had to raise prices on Model S/3/X/Y in the past few days. And other automakers can't lower their prices because they're already on razor thin margins. There's a reason why other automakers are losing so much volume while Tesla continues to grow. So what's your point?



Says a lot when you're trying to bring up something off topic.

Where are the other automakers' 20% price cuts? Prices for all cars went nuts during covid, not just Tesla. Again a 1% drop versus a 20% drop. Tesla just raised prices in the U.S by $250. So after dropping the Model Y by 20% they've now increased it by 0.5%. Bully for Tesla I guess lol. I understand that you may be upset about your car having taken a massive hit to its resale value over the last year. Sorry. 🙁

Used Car Price Trends - CarGurus Pricing Index

Stay on top of used car price trends and get real-time industry-leading market insights.

www.cargurus.com

 

[tripsync]

Where are the other automakers' 20% price cuts? Prices for all cars went nuts during covid, not just Tesla. Again a 1% drop versus a 20% drop. Tesla just raised prices in the U.S by $250. So after dropping the Model Y by 20% they've now increased it by 0.5%. Bully for Tesla I guess lol. I understand that you may be upset about your car having taken a massive hit to its resale value over the last year. Sorry. 🙁

Used Car Price Trends - CarGurus Pricing Index

Stay on top of used car price trends and get real-time industry-leading market insights.

www.cargurus.com

Looking at my price tracker, Model Y LR:
January 2021: $49990
Peaked June 2022: $65990 (32% increase)
Now: $50,240 (about same price as 2021)

Ford Mach E Premium:
January 2021: $47000
Aug 2022: $54975 (12% increase, highest I could find)
Now: $46995 (about the same price as 2021)

LOL the reason why other automakers like Ford aren't dropping 20% is because they didn't even raise prices by 20% MSRP, let alone 30%! and even if they did, they seem to be returning back to 2021 prices. Because of dealership model is slow to receive sales data, their latency to react is extremely slow. Ford was the first among legacy auto to do it, others will follow. And this is on top of the fact that in many markets, Tesla, GM, and possibly Ford are the only automakers that are growing while others are shrinking.

I bought my Tesla way before covid so I understand that you're trying hard to find anyway to redeem yourself in this debate.

Sorry, but your argument is done-zo. Have a good one.

 

[hobnoble]

Ford CEO Jim Farley said that Ford has no plans to drop support for CarPlay due to its popularity with Ford customers. He made the comment in an interview with The Wall Street Journal's Joanna Stern.

"70 percent of our Ford customers in the U.S. are Apple customers. Why would I go to an Apple customer and say good luck?" he said.

Farley was commenting on car manufacturers that do not support CarPlay, like Tesla and General Motors. Tesla has never added CarPlay support into its vehicles, and GM earlier this year announced plans to phase out support for both CarPlay and Android Auto starting in 2023.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653814787590041645

GM plans go with a built-in infotainment system co-developed with Google as it transitions from combustion vehicles to electric vehicles. CarPlay will be available in non-electric models, but GM ultimately has plans to switch to an all-electric lineup by 2035.

iPhone users have been asking Tesla to support CarPlay for years, and unsurprisingly, GM's announcement has not been particularly popular with those who are in the Apple ecosystem. By removing control of the infotainment system from Apple, GM and Tesla have access to more data about their customers, and can also push vehicle-related digital subscription services.

Farley doesn't think there's money to be made in the content that car owners consume in their vehicles, with Ford instead focusing on safety, security, autonomy, and productivity features.Having a familiar navigation and infotainment system in the car is appealing to customers who don't want to have to transition between two incompatible software setups, so GM's decision to drop support for CarPlay and Android Auto will be off-putting to those who have become used to the way that in-car solutions from Apple and Google extend the smartphone experience to the vehicle. No CarPlay will be a dealbreaker for some customers, so it will be interesting to see how GM's transition affects future vehicle sales.

Starting in 2023, Apple plans to roll out a next-generation CarPlay experience that will offer even deeper integration into new vehicles for manufacturers who choose to continue to offer CarPlay as an option.

Article Link: Ford Plans to Stick With CarPlay as GM Moves to Phase Out Support

My Cadillac Blacking is the funnest car I've ever owned by a mile, but I wouldn't ever buy a car without CarPlay.

 

[MuckSavage70]

Deal breaker for so many - why would you do this, GM?

Because some *******s ran the numbers, and they found they can make more money getting customers' data then letting it go to Apple and Google.

 

[Tagbert]

Both Car Play and Android Auto are stupid! It is a "software on top of a software" concept which only shows the car manufacturer complete lack of competence and capability to produce stable and intuitive infotainment system that can seamlessly sync with your mobile device if you wish to.

If a car has a superb navigation system, native Spotify/Apple Music integration, auto-connecting handsfree and few other central features that drivers normally use, nobody will use Car Play and Android Auto.

The only reason people use or feel the need to use Car Play and its Android equivalent, is because the car infotainment systems and software is usually garbage. This is a fact which Ford CEO (and many others) appear to ignore. When a car manufacturer tells you that they offer Car Play support, what they actually mean is "We can't really do better software ourselfs, so go ahead and hook up your iPhone to the car and get all features you need".

The only company in the industry that is heavily betting on its own software and hardware is Tesla. With over-the-air regular updates and Ryzon CPU, it is years ahead of the competition in terms of integration, capabilities and usefulness.

Even if the car’s software were great, I’d still use CarPlay for some thing and would not be happy if I could not do it.

Most of my driving is within the range of a single charge so I rarely would need driving directions that directed me to a charger. When I’m using driving directions it’s either from a location in contacts or a location that I got from a search on my phone. I don’t need to transfer that to the car, somehow. I can just use Maps on CarPlay. I don’t listen to Spotify. I mostly listen to podcasts. My whole podcast library is on my phone and I’m not going to transfer it to the car, even if GM were to provide their own podcast app. I know the app I use is not available on Google Play store. Those are just the two most common reasons why I would still want to have CarPlay on any car. The phone is a personalized center for so much of my information and tools. A car will never be that.

 

[beanbaguk]

Having given this some more thought, it seems like the options for automobile manufacturers are:

1. Pay your own team to develop and implement an infotainment system for your cars.

2. Let Apple pay a team to develop and implement an infotainment system for your cars.

It just seems like option 2 makes more sense, unless there is something I am not thinking of such as automakers having to license CarPlay or something like that.

Edited to add that darngooddesign made a point about subscriptions that I had not thought of.

The thing is, every car manufacturer interface I've ever used (apart from CarPlay), is garbage. Android Auto is one I don't have much experience with, but it looks similar.

Moreover, the interface changes all the time, it's never consistent with other models, you can't upgrade it, and you are locked into map upgrades that are hard to get and support is usually dropped after no time at all.

CarPlay and Android Auto are no-brainers.

The only thing I would like with my CarPlay integration is for it to work with my head up display. Sadly, that came out in BMW ID7 and when I purchased my car, I had ID6. (Again, a great example as to why in-car systems are garbage). There is simply no way to upgrade without changing all the hardware internals, and then that would be considered unsupported by BMW, so I would lose my 4G access, ConnectedDrive, and access to all sorts of other things that are part of my car.