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Former Apple Employee Thinks Touch Bar Shouldn't Be Forced on Users Who Want Highest-End MacBook Pro

Val-kyrie said:
TouchBar makes simple tasks too difficult to execute for my uses (e.g., reduce volume, brightness, etc., while using function keys). I don't like having to drill through menus with the TouchBar when before it was a matter of using the function key. I also miss the haptic feedback of the functions built into the TouchBar.
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If I want to adjust the volume, I tap the volume icon and then slide left or right. That is certainly not difficult to do.
 
mrkramer said:
It's probably a couple dollars in parts. I can just about garuntee you if Apple made another model without it it would be almost the same price, and no one would buy the non touch bar high end model.
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I would. I have a TB MPB. TB is 100% useless and even a hinderance to me as I'm a touch typer and also use command functions. I never look at the keyboard -- just the screen. OTOH I did use FKeys which now I can't because even though there are pseudo FKeys on TB they are not tactile so useless to me.

My guess is true pro users would go for the non TB unit in droves. We know how to type and don't use emojis. The only people that get anything out of TB are people that can't type, emoji is their first language, and don't know cmd-B is bold.

But Apple will stick with the TB because it looks cool in ads.
 
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Apple will never go back to user-replaceable AA batteries, unfortunately. That ship has sailed, with some hilariously sad results; basically, you have to destroy the Magic Keyboard to get at the integrated battery, and can't use the Magic Mouse 2 while charging because Jony thought it was a great idea to put the Lightning port on the bottom. :rolleyes:
 
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Haha if I remember correctly, Microsoft launched the stunning innovative Surface Studio... and then the next Apple event after we had the new MacBook Pros with a touchbar and tons of emoji's... on and Apple hiked the price and limited the ram to 16GB non upgradable. Oh and USB C only ports.

The iPad Pro I thought no has been a cover innovative product, especially the new ones with their new screens, but the MacBook Pro was just a silly upgrade..
 
JDHiro said:
I'd like Apple to do the obvious thing and offer physical keys + a TouchID sensor across the range of their keyboards. (I'm guessing however that they haven't created a totally secure way to do wireless TouchID).

I only really need function keys when I'm playing games - but the touch bar adds nothing to me at all, ever. Especially since I'm docked with a Magic Keyboard 90% of the time.
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Yep, fully agree. As for security, I don't really understand what the problem is; the iPhone and the Apple Watch can already unlock Macs wirelessly, and the Touch Bar runs essentially on a miniature Apple Watch SoC and OS, with a strip-shaped screen instead of squarish one. Connect it to the keyboard itself, use macOS or even the Touch Bar itself to provide some visual feedback and ask the user to input an admin password and fingerprints into the secure enclave, just like on an iOS device, and boom, you're done!
 
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I think the real point that he touched on is not so much the functionality/ practicality of the TB, but whether adding this contributed materially to the big price increase. If Apple decided they had to add $100 to the price of each new machine to cover the R&D, extra material/ manufacturing and software writing costs, then that's a not-insubstanitally higher price for people who generally seem to be, at best, tepid on the technology. Given the choice between touch bar or a $100 price reduction, I suspect most people would choose the price cut. If it's a much smaller charge than that, then it's probably a non issue, really.
 
The TouchBar is horrible UI design: Most apps just move interface controls/widgets from the window and put them down onto the TouchBar far removed from the app's actual interface.

Instead of actual pro features like MORE battery capacity or more RAM or more usable PORTS we got an expensive gimmick that no one asked for.

If the TouchBar was so incredibly popular and awesome why wasn't it rolled into a desktop standalone keyboard for the updated Pro computers at least?
 
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The solution is simple, give all models the Touch Bar, but also include a function row on the MacBook Pros thanks to the increased space above the keyboard.
 
For me, it's not the "extra money" (I'm not even sure it's right to say people are being charged extra for the touch bar), I just don't want it. I just bought a fully-loaded 13" MacBook Pro, however I opted for the non touch bar model not because it cost less but because I wanted function keys and did not want the touch bar. Had they offered a high-end model (fastest CPU, 4 ports) without the touch bar, I would have gotten it. So I think it's fair to say Apple lost out on some money from me because of the touch bar (not to say that the NTB that I got was cheap).
 
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One thing is certain: Apple could and should add haptic feedback and 3D Touch to the Touch Bar. That way, touch typists might just be able to get used to its interface without having to look at it or to emulate the old function keys.
 
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ApfelKuchen said:
I've only messed around with Touch Bar at the Apple Store. I found no reason to dislike it, but haven't lived with it, so I don't know how it might really affect my work and play (though I do a lot of clicking and dragging of sliders while image editing, so I can't imagine how it wouldn't be helpful).
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My problem with the Touch Bar is that in order to use it, you almost always have to take your eyes off the screen. It is nearly impossible to develop a muscle memory with a smooth piece of glass. It forces you to look away from the content you're supposed to be working on. Even relatively rudimentary tasks like adjusting the volume or brightness require the user to take their eyes off their screen unless they use the controls built into macOS -- which is sort of a kludgy workaround.
 
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After using it for eight months, I love the TouchBar. I use it more or less depending on the app, but Affinity, Logic, XCode and Coda all provide really useful shortcuts. My finger has even started to get used to the Esc key, which I didn't think would happen.

If you do lots of command line work and actually need those keys I feel for you, that's definelty a solid use case for a Touchbar-less MacBook.
 
brian3uk said:
100% agree. I finally just set it to show the control keys all the time. The app tools are mostly useless and it's frustrating to always have to tap to open the control strip.
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You mean you can set it up to act like the old function keys without having to hit the function button each time? Or am I too optimistic?
 
jdiamond said:
You mean you can set it up to act like the old function keys without having to hit the function button each time? Or am I too optimistic?
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Indeed you can. It's under the keyboard or display settings, I don't recall which right now.
 
blackcrayon said:
I like the touch bar. Worst case, Apple could just put the physical function row back and put the Touch Bar above that (trackpad would have to shrink slightly on the 13" though). But I agree it's a feature that should be available across the Mac line. Makes no sense for the iMac (their current desktop "pro mac" in a sense) to lack the feature at this point.
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+1 for acknowledging there's two issues here: some people need the function keys, even if they also love the touch bar. :) Apple created a false choice here.
 
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