Former Apple Employees Reflect on Siri's 'Squandered Lead' Over Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant

[9081094]

How often is it you see individuals talking to their phones anyway? NEVER

Are Siri and the likes really the most efficient way to get things done? NO

Do we really need them now when we did just fine without them before? NO

I don’t agree with you. At the state Siri is right now, I totally agree with you. But when could ask Siri a question and a follow up question and it would give me the right answers/actions, it would be a big win.

And let’s face it... it’s the future! It’s still in its infancy but the company who will get it right first will have a big impact on the competition. My bet is that this race won’t be won by Apple and that it will definitely hurt their sales... and for Tim Cook: less profits.

 

[ILikeAllOS]

You want to know what the problem is with Apple right now?
Any time an article or high profile person directs even the slightest criticism towards an Apple service (such as Siri in this case) there is immediately a response from Apple where they dismiss all of the criticism and go straight into their talking points about how "great", "amazing", "magical" it is, how it's "used on millions of devices" or how it's "the most advanced", etc..

However, watch this portion of the D5 interview with Steve and Bill Gates in 2007.

Walter Mossberg brings up the .Mac service and says how a lot of people feel Apple "hasn't developed it very much" (sound familiar?).
You know what Steve says? He doesn't jump into talking points, he simply says "I couldn't agree with you more".

THAT is what is missing and is the biggest difference between Steve and Tim.
In order to improve something, such as Siri, you have to be able to find and also admit to the faults in that product before it can get better.

 

[Hagrid]

Yeah, it certainly reads like the underlying problem in the team, is teamwork. Perhaps leadership issues, perhaps culture and environment, perhaps just the people combination.. but certainly people factors rather than technological factors appear to be the biggest challenge.

This may reflect on Apple's internal culture more broadly. Clearly this is a company with unlimited cash, and world-class marketing skills, but if there is a problem in the team.. with leadership.. with strategic vision.. with cultural philosophies.. it would explain some of the mis-steps that we've seen Apple take, that see them losing ground to other kids on the techie block.

Well this seems quite awhile ago. Are we to believe that after all this time, Apple can only muster incremental improvements even with "new" leadership?

Come on Apple, Fix the ****ing thing

 

[Uofmtiger]

I think Apple really didn't get the direction that a tool like Siri should be taking. They eventually realized with Alexa but by then it was too late. Google and Microsoft got it and were in quick pursuit of Amazon but they don't have the core competencies that Amazon has. Only Apple does but Apple didn''t quite get it with Alexa. They still don't. No wonder Alexa is winnign.

I am just curious, what makes you think it is even close to "too late"? Alexa took off when they introduced the Dot at a sub $40 price point and it was often on sale. How much revenue have they made on Alexa? There was an article that an analyst predicted they lost $300 million in this market in 2016 and were set to lose $600 million in 2017.

Siri on the other hand is in a wide range of very popular products with high profits. Even if Siri is behind in many areas (personally, my HomePod handles music better than my Dot, doesn't go off for no reason as often, can be heard over music, and does a better job controlling my Hue Lights), it hasn't shown up in their financials. Yes, it could, in theory, cause them issues in the future (if people continue to not care about privacy...which isn't a given), but they are a long way from being hurt from not being the leader in answering trivia questions, supporting third party skills, or whatever the market thinks it should be doing. Unless, you think this is hurting:

• The most profitable smartphone
• The most profitable tablet
• The most profitable laptop
• The most profitable desktop
• The most profitable smartwatch
• The most profitable pair of wireless headphones
• The most profitable streaming TV box

(Note: All products above employ Siri)

I expect that this list will be revised with the most profitable smart speaker by the end of the year. Heck, they are probably the only company turning a profit in this market segment. The HomePod has also contributed (in some way) to the faster growth of Apple Music. That can't be all bad.

All that being said, I think they can make many improvements to Siri. I just don't think they have lost anything and think the game has just started.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

Sometimes Siri impresses me, but generally I am disappointed with her. She is best on my Series 3 Apple Watch, but even there she cannot work with a command that should be doable such as "Hey Siri, share my location with (insert contact name)." On my phone or iPad she answers with web results for me to open for most questions. My previous Android phone and obviously the Google app on my iPhone both outperform what Siri does easily (Overall I prefer iOS to Android, but if I could set the iPhone to respond to voice commands with the Google app I likely would).

 

[spinedoc77]

Interesting, sounds like Microsoft and their penchant for one hand not knowing what the other is doing.

 

[9081094]

Siri is the worst product Apple has ever made in my history of using Apple products. Why when I ask it to play a song in my library it decides nope you want to hear this song you’ve never heard of before. Or why can’t it answer simple questions, everything is always a search query. Even asking the same thing can illicit different responses. Sometimes what’s playing makes Siri gets it Shazam on and others, movie showtimes. Siri is only good for asking for the weather, setting timers and alarms, and showing off some funny response to a human question that was cute the first time

I agree with you. But that list of bad products is growing and growing. It’s an total embarrassment for a company with that exorbitant huge profits (= the money you and I are paying to Tim Cook and his beloved shareholders who keep him in place) to come up with such little progress in their computers and software. The gap is widening by the day!

 

[AlbinoPigeon]

I'm not looking for a miracle, but just the basic ability to interact with Apple's own services. For example, this happens to me all the time and it's brutal:

 

[Novus John]

Siri is so useless and broken for me that it borders on the malignant.

Apple needs to step up its game and finally turn Siri into an actual voice assistant. Otherwise I have no use for it with the exception of occasionally asking to spell words for me.

 

[tigres]

I mean this with all due respect apple, Siri plain sucks. Period. Your products however light up my life...

 

[Cesar Battistini]

Significant advances? Siri seems about the same since its launch...

You don't remember how Siri launched.

 

[Perdix]

Rather reluctantly I have just bought an Echo Spot from Amazon, and am delighted with it. I had waited for the HomePod, but:
1. It was grossly overpriced.
2. It has no visual display.
3. The music quality is overkill for me - I have a "proper" stereo that gives me better sound, and I just wanted something reasonable for the bedroom.
4. Getting Siri to do the most basic things can be very frustrating. Getting its attention even can sometimes be tricky!
5. Siri is for ever apologising saying 'Sorry I can't do that".
6. Siri isn't compatible with British Gas Hive.
In contrast Alexa can do all the above easily.
What a wasted opportunity.

 

[JRobinsonJr]

"Squandered" is relative. I don't believe Apple is trying to be Google, at least in terms of using customer data and behavior as power for their AI.

Siri is absolutely better than it used to be. I appreciate Apple trying to get somewhere without using every possible data point at the expense of privacy to do it.

I too fully support and appreciate Apple's stance on privacy. But... privacy can't be used as an excuse for Siri's condition.

• Opening it up to 3rd parties for additional functionality would not negate privacy, particularly with a very capable but security aware API
• Given that Siri can already point to website's with answers, adding the ability to READ those answers would not negate privacy. Yes, this is an area where Google will excel, but it does not absolve Apple of responsibility.
• There is nothing to prevent Apple from anonymizing data to improve Siri across the board

Am I missing something?

 

[applehabilis]

I've given up using Siri, except to initiate driving directions in maps. How frustrating is it to not even be able to play an album in the car, if that album contains a title song. Example: "Play the album Born To Run". All Siri can do for me is play the song of the same name. You'd think that Siri would be expert at integrating with iTunes by now.

The Information has published an in-depth look at how Siri has transitioned from one of Apple's most promising technologies into a "major problem" for the company. The article includes interviews with a dozen former Apple employees who worked on the various teams responsible for the virtual assistant.

The report claims that many of the employees acknowledged for the first time that Apple rushed Siri to be included in the iPhone 4s before the technology was fully ready, resulting in several internal debates over whether to continue patching up the half-baked product or start from scratch.The team working on Siri was overseen by Apple's then iOS chief Scott Forstall, but his attention was reportedly divided by other major projects, including the upcoming launch of Apple Maps. As a result, Forstall enlisted Richard Williamson, who was also managing the Apple Maps project, to head up the Siri team.

According to the report, several former employees said Williamson made a number of decisions that the rest of the Siri team disagreed with, including a plan to improve the assistant's capabilities only once a year.

Williamson, in an emailed response to the report, wrote that it's "completely untrue" that he decided Siri shouldn't be improved continuously.Forstall and Williamson were both fired by Apple in 2012 following the botched launch of Apple Maps on iOS 6. The former employees interviewed said they lamented losing Forstall, who "believed in what they were doing."

Another interesting tidbit is that the Siri team apparently didn't even learn about the HomePod until 2015. Last year, Bloomberg News reported that Apple had developed several speaker prototypes dating back to 2012, but the Siri team presumably didn't know due to Apple's culture of secrecy.The report says that Siri is the main reason the HomePod has "underperformed," and said Siri's capabilities "remain limited compared to the competition," including Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant.Some former employees interviewed noted that "while Apple has tried to remake itself as a services company, its core is still product design."

Apple responded to today's report with a statement noting Siri is "the world's most popular voice assistant" and touted "significant advances" to the assistant's performance, scalability, and reliability.The full-length article is a worthwhile read for those interested in learning more about Siri's internal struggles and shortcomings.

The Information: The Seven-Year Itch: How Apple's Marriage to Siri Turned Sour

Article Link: Former Apple Employees Reflect on Siri's 'Squandered Lead' Over Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant[/QUOTE]

The Information has published an in-depth look at how Siri has transitioned from one of Apple's most promising technologies into a "major problem" for the company. The article includes interviews with a dozen former Apple employees who worked on the various teams responsible for the virtual assistant.

The report claims that many of the employees acknowledged for the first time that Apple rushed Siri to be included in the iPhone 4s before the technology was fully ready, resulting in several internal debates over whether to continue patching up the half-baked product or start from scratch.The team working on Siri was overseen by Apple's then iOS chief Scott Forstall, but his attention was reportedly divided by other major projects, including the upcoming launch of Apple Maps. As a result, Forstall enlisted Richard Williamson, who was also managing the Apple Maps project, to head up the Siri team.

According to the report, several former employees said Williamson made a number of decisions that the rest of the Siri team disagreed with, including a plan to improve the assistant's capabilities only once a year.

Williamson, in an emailed response to the report, wrote that it's "completely untrue" that he decided Siri shouldn't be improved continuously.Forstall and Williamson were both fired by Apple in 2012 following the botched launch of Apple Maps on iOS 6. The former employees interviewed said they lamented losing Forstall, who "believed in what they were doing."

Another interesting tidbit is that the Siri team apparently didn't even learn about the HomePod until 2015. Last year, Bloomberg News reported that Apple had developed several speaker prototypes dating back to 2012, but the Siri team presumably didn't know due to Apple's culture of secrecy.The report says that Siri is the main reason the HomePod has "underperformed," and said Siri's capabilities "remain limited compared to the competition," including Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant.Some former employees interviewed noted that "while Apple has tried to remake itself as a services company, its core is still product design."

Apple responded to today's report with a statement noting Siri is "the world's most popular voice assistant" and touted "significant advances" to the assistant's performance, scalability, and reliability.The full-length article is a worthwhile read for those interested in learning more about Siri's internal struggles and shortcomings.

The Information: The Seven-Year Itch: How Apple's Marriage to Siri Turned Sour

Article Link: Former Apple Employees Reflect on Siri's 'Squandered Lead' Over Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant

[doublepost=1521053852][/doublepost]I've given up using Siri, except to initiate driving directions in maps. How frustrating is it to not even be able to play an album in the car, if that album contains a title song. Example: "Play the album Born To Run". All Siri can do for me is play the song of the same name. You'd think that Siri would be expert at integrating with iTunes by n

The Information has published an in-depth look at how Siri has transitioned from one of Apple's most promising technologies into a "major problem" for the company. The article includes interviews with a dozen former Apple employees who worked on the various teams responsible for the virtual assistant.

The report claims that many of the employees acknowledged for the first time that Apple rushed Siri to be included in the iPhone 4s before the technology was fully ready, resulting in several internal debates over whether to continue patching up the half-baked product or start from scratch.The team working on Siri was overseen by Apple's then iOS chief Scott Forstall, but his attention was reportedly divided by other major projects, including the upcoming launch of Apple Maps. As a result, Forstall enlisted Richard Williamson, who was also managing the Apple Maps project, to head up the Siri team.

According to the report, several former employees said Williamson made a number of decisions that the rest of the Siri team disagreed with, including a plan to improve the assistant's capabilities only once a year.

Williamson, in an emailed response to the report, wrote that it's "completely untrue" that he decided Siri shouldn't be improved continuously.Forstall and Williamson were both fired by Apple in 2012 following the botched launch of Apple Maps on iOS 6. The former employees interviewed said they lamented losing Forstall, who "believed in what they were doing."

Another interesting tidbit is that the Siri team apparently didn't even learn about the HomePod until 2015. Last year, Bloomberg News reported that Apple had developed several speaker prototypes dating back to 2012, but the Siri team presumably didn't know due to Apple's culture of secrecy.The report says that Siri is the main reason the HomePod has "underperformed," and said Siri's capabilities "remain limited compared to the competition," including Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant.Some former employees interviewed noted that "while Apple has tried to remake itself as a services company, its core is still product design."

Apple responded to today's report with a statement noting Siri is "the world's most popular voice assistant" and touted "significant advances" to the assistant's performance, scalability, and reliability.The full-length article is a worthwhile read for those interested in learning more about Siri's internal struggles and shortcomings.

The Information: The Seven-Year Itch: How Apple's Marriage to Siri Turned Sour

Article Link: Former Apple Employees Reflect on Siri's 'Squandered Lead' Over Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant[/QUOTE]

The Information has published an in-depth look at how Siri has transitioned from one of Apple's most promising technologies into a "major problem" for the company. The article includes interviews with a dozen former Apple employees who worked on the various teams responsible for the virtual assistant.

The report claims that many of the employees acknowledged for the first time that Apple rushed Siri to be included in the iPhone 4s before the technology was fully ready, resulting in several internal debates over whether to continue patching up the half-baked product or start from scratch.The team working on Siri was overseen by Apple's then iOS chief Scott Forstall, but his attention was reportedly divided by other major projects, including the upcoming launch of Apple Maps. As a result, Forstall enlisted Richard Williamson, who was also managing the Apple Maps project, to head up the Siri team.

According to the report, several former employees said Williamson made a number of decisions that the rest of the Siri team disagreed with, including a plan to improve the assistant's capabilities only once a year.

Williamson, in an emailed response to the report, wrote that it's "completely untrue" that he decided Siri shouldn't be improved continuously.Forstall and Williamson were both fired by Apple in 2012 following the botched launch of Apple Maps on iOS 6. The former employees interviewed said they lamented losing Forstall, who "believed in what they were doing."

Another interesting tidbit is that the Siri team apparently didn't even learn about the HomePod until 2015. Last year, Bloomberg News reported that Apple had developed several speaker prototypes dating back to 2012, but the Siri team presumably didn't know due to Apple's culture of secrecy.The report says that Siri is the main reason the HomePod has "underperformed," and said Siri's capabilities "remain limited compared to the competition," including Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant.Some former employees interviewed noted that "while Apple has tried to remake itself as a services company, its core is still product design."

Apple responded to today's report with a statement noting Siri is "the world's most popular voice assistant" and touted "significant advances" to the assistant's performance, scalability, and reliability.The full-length article is a worthwhile read for those interested in learning more about Siri's internal struggles and shortcomings.

The Information: The Seven-Year Itch: How Apple's Marriage to Siri Turned Sour

Article Link: Former Apple Employees Reflect on Siri's 'Squandered Lead' Over Amazon Alexa and Google Assistant

 

[9081094]

I am just curious, what makes you think it is even close to "too late"? Alexa took off when they introduced the Dot at a sub $40 price point and it was often on sale. How much revenue have they made on Alexa? There was an article that an analyst predicted they lost $300 million in this market in 2016 and were set to lose $600 million in 2017.

Siri on the other hand is in a wide range of very popular products with high profits. Even if Siri is behind in many areas (personally, my HomePod handles music better than my Dot, doesn't go off for no reason as often, can be heard over music, and does a better job controlling my Hue Lights), it hasn't shown up in their financials. Yes, it could, in theory, cause them issues in the future (if people continue to not care about privacy...which isn't a given), but they are a long way from being hurt from not being the leader in answering trivia questions, supporting third party skills, or whatever the market thinks it should be doing. Unless, you think this is hurting:

• The most profitable smartphone
• The most profitable tablet
• The most profitable laptop
• The most profitable desktop
• The most profitable smartwatch
• The most profitable pair of wireless headphones
• The most profitable streaming TV box

(Note: All products above employ Siri)

I expect that this list will be revised with the most profitable smart speaker by the end of the year. Heck, they are probably the only company turning a profit in this market segment. The HomePod has also contributed (in some way) to the faster growth of Apple Music. That can't be all bad.

All that being said, I think they can make many improvements to Siri. I just don't think they have lost anything and think the game has just started.

I’m not against making profits. But not upgrading/investing in your products while reaping the maximum on price is an insult to my intelligence and also an insult to the brand Apple it used to be.

 

[tdar]

The problem Siri has is not software, it's not servers,it's not Apple managers or employees. It's not Apple's insane unproductive culture of secrecy. It' the desire to push "Privacy" at the cost of functionality. The article describes how Apple did not open Siri to third party's. That's due to Apple's Privacy requirements. They can't even do as much as users should expect themselves because they insist that your data can't be sent back to Apple servers never the less third party ones. If you're testing iOS 11.3 or MacOS 10.13.4 you know that this is going to get worse not better. Wait till WWDC ,double down I predict.

 

[fogcitynative3121]

Anyone who has ever used Google Assistant knows how crappy and inferior Siri is. It's a SHAME!

As I recall, Apple bought Siri technology. And the original developers left as soon as their contract allowed.

So Siri was never an Apple-developed product.

Yes, Siri SUCKS. Always has. Changing her voice or making pretty new logos won't fix the basic deficiencies.

Example using dictation (I live in San Francisco, so these are real street names)

"Hey, Siri. Send a message to Gregg. I am on the corner of Bryant and Brannan and waiting for an Uber"

First of all, it can never identify Gregg. I have no Greg in my contacts, just Gregg. Siri cannot relate the sound of Greg to the name Gregg.

As for the message, here's what Siri produces:

"I am on the corner of Brian and Brandon and waiting for a goober"

Moronic, idiotic, Siri is a total waste of time. I guess Siri thinks Bryant and Brannan streets are really two guys in the Castro.

Google Assistant nails it.

It's too bad that Google Assistant can't be used with iOS. Because I hate Android.

Apple needs to start from scratch as I just don't think Siri can be fixed.

 

[HarryWild]

Okay, I will try Siri again when I buy my new iPad 11" or the updated one. I am using Google Assistant solely now and it sort of a companion or a buddy to me! About 18 month ago; for fun, I ask a series of the question of both Siri and GA and Siri was completely retarded/limited in it answers while GA was pretty good at doing Q&A.

 

[maverick2007]

To be frank, I have never used Siri - it doesnt detect that well Asian / european accent that well. Bring back forstall.

 

[9081094]

As I recall, Apple bought Siri technology. And the original developers left as soon as their contract allowed.

So Siri was never an Apple-developed product.

Yes, Siri SUCKS. Always has. Changing her voice or making pretty new logos won't fix the basic deficiencies.

Example using dictation (I live in San Francisco, so these are real street names)

"Hey, Siri. Send a message to Gregg. I am on the corner of Bryant and Brannan and waiting for an Uber"

First of all, it can never identify Gregg. I have no Greg in my contacts, just Gregg. Siri cannot relate the sound of Greg to the name Gregg.

As for the message, here's what Siri produces:

"I am on the corner of Brian and Brandon and waiting for a goober"

Moronic, idiotic, Siri is a total waste of time. I guess Siri thinks Bryant and Brannan streets are really two guys in the Castro.

Google Assistant nails it.

It's too bad that Google Assistant can't be used with iOS. Because I hate Android.

Apple needs to start from scratch as I just don't think Siri can be fixed.

Google assistant works on iOS. The only problem is that Apple is crippling good competition by not allowing them to do certain tasks. That’s a shame!

 

[wigby]

Siri is kind of like some students in school. They are smart and have the knowledge but when it comes to taking tests, they trail behind other students (or voice assistants). Siri is great if you know exactly what to ask it. Alexa is great if you know exactly what to and how to ask it. Google is great if you know exactly what to ask it. But they all fall short for general, random use cases for me. I'm not making excuses for Siri because it is disappointing but when I test all the assistants for your my own needs, I find they are similar enough so that one doesn't really stand out a much as any other. On paper, Siri trails but objective tests don't tell the whole story when you're dealing with personal assistants.

 

[HiRez]

Significant advances? Siri seems about the same since its launch...

It is actually a little better. It's faster than it was then, the voice is better, and it does recognize phrases slightly better.

But yeah, the pace of improvement is glacial, it was bad at release and is still nearly as bad now almost 7 years later. I don't know how Apple cannot be so thoroughly embarrassed by Siri that they wipe the slate and start clean, with dedicated resources. Amazon and Google and others have started from scratch in some cases years after Siri was released and already lapped them, it's really a total failure.

Honestly I don't think I've seen one person who isn't an Apple employee speak with any kind of praise about Siri, it is pretty much universally loathed.

 

[mrzz]

.. "while Apple has tried to remake itself as a services company" .. ok, now it's clear why they are trying to do literally everything, but unfortunately almost nothing properly. And their explanation at the end .. how typical Apple PR BS if they have no idea how to reasonably explain that something is a fail. They are completely disconnected from reality, but $ are flowing in, so what's the problem, everything is shiny and perfect

 

[HarryWild]

As I recall, Apple bought Siri technology. And the original developers left as soon as their contract allowed.

So Siri was never an Apple-developed product.

Yes, Siri SUCKS. Always has. Changing her voice or making pretty new logos won't fix the basic deficiencies.

Example using dictation (I live in San Francisco, so these are real street names)

"Hey, Siri. Send a message to Gregg. I am on the corner of Bryant and Brannan and waiting for an Uber"

First of all, it can never identify Gregg. I have no Greg in my contacts, just Gregg. Siri cannot relate the sound of Greg to the name Gregg.

As for the message, here's what Siri produces:

"I am on the corner of Brian and Brandon and waiting for a goober"

Moronic, idiotic, Siri is a total waste of time. I guess Siri thinks Bryant and Brannan streets are really two guys in the Castro.

Google Assistant nails it.

It's too bad that Google Assistant can't be used with iOS. Because I hate Android.

Apple needs to start from scratch as I just don't think Siri can be fixed.

You can download Google Assistant app from Apple App Store, but you have to use it as regular icon activated by touching it. Apple does not allow for the user to replace it in it iOS so it is always activate and replaces Siri as the PA...yet! I just move it to the bottom and insert it next to my phone icon so it always their in my iPhones and iPads.

 

[WilliamG]

I left iPhone many years ago, but I remember being gobsmacked that saying "Turn on wi-fi" didn't work.

Does it now?

Indeed it does.