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not being funny, but how much of ron's success at apple was his own genius, and how much of it was simply implementing steve's vision?

A lot of things seem to have slipped since jobs passed. Someone coming back to "new" apple may achieve very different results, than they did under a leader like steve jobs with his ferocious attention to detail.

Bingo !!!
 
it's too bad Ron was asked to leave by the JCP board. ... but you gotta hand it to Steve for being ballsy enough to say to the Apple board, "This isn't working out ... I need all of you to resign".

:eek:
 
Because the whole "apple store is great and drives sales" line is complete BS. People buy the products that are sold. Turns out there is more of a market for hip status symbol technology than there is for discount brand jeans.

Exactly, the actually apple store experience of buying something is usually pretty horrific actually. I hate how disorganized it is. They are successful because of they are a status symbol and a 'cool' place to hang out in.
 
Apple would be foolish not to hire him back. Let's hope they do! :cool:

Apple should be feeling pretty foolish for pushing him out & hiring a toe-cutter. Now's the time for Tim Cook to make an apology to Apple customers and hire the guy back - Mansfield-style.
 
He did amazing stuff with Apple, but I wouldn't take him back. What kind of management morale would there be with someone who left coming back?

What's the problem with that? You either think the person is the best candidate for the position (that you can get), or you don't. If you think he or she is, you hire them. If not, you hire someone who is better. After his successor, they might be glad to have him back. And he'll be highly motivated to prove that he can do better than he did at JC Penney, and that he can do better than his successor at Apple did.
 
Stop!!!

JC Penney sells clothing for the poor. Seriously go to Macy's to get quality clothing.

Most people with large bank balances don't get that way buying over priced clothing. I'm not saying Macy's is over priced, but just because someone chooses to shop at JCP doesn't mean they're poor in the nasty, self important way you mean it.

BTW, there is a Nordstrom shopper reading your post and laughing at your broke as_s.
 
This was a bad fit from the beginning. Trying to overlay Apple's philosophy on JCP retail was doomed before it got off the ground. A large part of the success of Apple is their product focus. Market and sell a finite group of products and do it to the best of your ability. JCP has a ton of products across multiple categories. RJ couldn't focus on one group without neglecting the others.

Apple competes in a market with very few competitors. It's easier for them to differentiate. JCP sells the same things that can be had at any other retailer. Apple has cachet. JCP is... well, JCP. Close your eyes in JCP and you could be in Target, Walmart, Sears, or Kohls. Additionally, a ton of other mall retailers sell the same things.

Apples philosophy works for Apple because of what, and how, they sell. That philosophy is non-transferable IMHO. He should have known better

This...

I couldn't figure out why he jumped ship after being such a huge success.

It's like jumping from a well designed battleship to the Titanic... :eek:
 
Welcome Back.

I would think JCP was a great educational experience. If Apple and he can get together so be it. He may wish to do something else entirely and guess what? It's up to them not you. I don't have a problem with it.
 
He did amazing stuff with Apple, but I wouldn't take him back. What kind of management morale would there be with someone who left coming back?

By that logic, Apple should never have rehired Steve Jobs after he resigned from Apple in 1985.
 
Lol. Had to read this twice. First time I thought you said "I was pulling my Johnson at jcp"

Spending a 1000? That's hardcore dedication.

How much do you spend a year on clothes? I spend $2,000 or so and spent half this year at JCP. Doesn't seem extreme to me.

----------

Lol, idiot.

Idiot? Do you buy new clothes or do you just go to the Goodwill? What's idiotic about buying clothes?
 
Any idiot could see this coming.

Apple sells high end products at a premium. Most buyers even KNOW they are paying extra. But, they now it and accept it.

JC Penny sells to the masses. People that expect sales. He tried to change normal buying decisions. I can not believe the Sr Mgmt listened to him.

This is not rocket science folks.


Duh.
Duh.
Duh 1,000 times!
 
he brought in alot of Apple managers as VP's expecting them to transform JCP into something it's not nor has ever been. They have been working on redoing the layout of their stores to make it more "apple store" like....now I wonder if they scrap all of that and go back to the same ol. The company is totally ruderless

And the reworking of JCP stores is the only reason I stepped foot in a JCP in 10+ years and would consider going back.

JCP need to go younger. Their current market is OLD PEOPLE who are dying off.
RJ tried to transform JCP for the long term and stock holders are stuck in the short term.
JCP will go back to being JCP, catering to OLD PEOPLE and be out of business within a decade.
 
Apple wouldn't bring him back. Ain't happening.
He went to JCP to turn sh** into gold and it backfired.
 
A lot of things seem to have slipped since Jobs passed. Someone coming back to "new" Apple may achieve very different results, than they did under a leader like Steve Jobs with his ferocious attention to detail.


You got it.

There is one thing I will give RJ, and one thing only. He is a great merchandiser, he knows how to present a product.

That does not mean he knows how to select a product. It also does not mean he knows how to run a multi-billion dollar company. Lastly, it does not mean he is a great leader in any way, shape, or form.

I work at JCP, home office (now). There was little that was unique about RJ's plans, except that he refused to market test them. Many of his 'ideas' had been tested before (for example : ipod check-out), and we had found that the customer did not like those things.

RJ did them anyway. People who pointed out that they should be tested - in 1 store, in 50 stores, even 100 stores - were told they weren't on board and let go.

The internal damage to JCP is severe. He cut somewhere between 40,000 and 50,000 jobs - mostly in the last 13 months. I will admit the initial cuts were truly cutting 'fat', but it's long long since become more than that.

And, all this talk about 'JCP was already on the ropes'. That's FUD that was spread by Johnson and his lacky Hedge fund backer Ackman.

Under the prior CEO (Ullman - who is returning) JCP had its *most profitable year ever* with 1 billion in profit, in 2010. Throughout the financial crisis of 2007-2009, the company was *profitable every single year*. We gave out a dividend *every single quarter*. That does not describe a company that was on the ropes.

Consider, where did all that cash come from that RJ squandered last year, all that real estate value, the ability to absorb $1billion in losses under Johnson and $4 billion in lost sales? It came from the success of prior years.
 
Any idiot could see this coming.

Apple sells high end products at a premium. Most buyers even KNOW they are paying extra. But, they now it and accept it.

JC Penny sells to the masses. People that expect sales. He tried to change normal buying decisions. I can not believe the Sr Mgmt listened to him.

This is not rocket science folks.


Duh.
Duh.
Duh 1,000 times!

There is no 'Sr Management' to a CEO.

He is only accountable to the Board of Directors and shareholders.
 
Can't say I'm surprised here, nor should anyone be. JCP is a wreck right now, and frankly it's his doing.

JCP was a wreck before Johnson. That's why they brought him in in the first place. True, he made it worse, but the BOD knew they were not hiring him to issue more coupons, plan more sales and double up on gabardine ankle dresses.

Johnson's challenge was to modernize JCP to attract younger customers w/o alienating the core customers. Hard, hard, road to hoe. Clearly it could not be done because the JCP brand was too damaged way, way before Johnson arrived.
 
Not being funny, but how much of Ron's success at Apple was his own genius, and how much of it was simply implementing Steve's vision?

A lot of things seem to have slipped since Jobs passed. Someone coming back to "new" Apple may achieve very different results, than they did under a leader like Steve Jobs with his ferocious attention to detail.

+3

You nailed it!

Taking Johnson back is not worth the risk, aggravation, nor morale hit.
 
JCP was a wreck before Johnson. That's why they brought him in in the first place. True, he made it worse, but the BOD knew they were not hiring him to issue more coupons, plan more sales and double up on gabardine ankle dresses.

Johnson's challenge was to modernize JCP to attract younger customers w/o alienating the core customers. Hard, hard, road to hoe. Clearly it could not be done because the JCP brand was too damaged way, way before Johnson arrived.

Under the prior CEO (Ullman - who is returning) JCP had its *most profitable year ever* with 1 billion in profit, in 2010. Throughout the financial crisis of 2007-2009, the company was *profitable every single year*. We gave out a dividend *every single quarter*. That does not describe a company that was on the ropes.
 
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