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Spinland

macrumors 6502
Jul 16, 2011
320
1
Utica, NY, USA
The take-home lesson for Apple, from Blackberry, is that having a massive pile of cash cannot save a company, once the fickle public decides they like something else.

Apple will have to get killed under a truck to learn the lesson that you discard the professional market at your peril, by solely chasing the fickle consumer market.

I'm not much of a student of the corporate wheres and hows in all this tech industry stuff, but this confuses me. My impression was that RIM's downfall came from just what you seem to be espousing for Apple: they stuck to the professional, corporate market and ignored the "fickle consumer market" and got crushed.
 

TalkAboutApple

macrumors regular
Jun 6, 2008
106
15
My dream scenario is that Forstall becomes CEO of Microsoft with a blank cheque to transform the company, and then beats the arrogant Apple crowd at its own game.

Apple has already started the transition of becoming the next Microsoft, in all the worst senses. Forstall could re-work Windows 8.

Plus, transforming Windows 8 would be striking at the dark heart of crayon blocks and thin fonts that has also stricken iOS7.

I keep waiting for someone to fess up that iOS7 was actually just Visio mockups that got released because no one could decide on the final look.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,381
31,621
My dream scenario is that Forstall becomes CEO of Microsoft with a blank cheque to transform the company, and then beats the arrogant Apple crowd at its own game.

If Steve Jobs didn't think Forstall was qualified to be CEO of Apple why in the world would anyone think he was qualified to run a vastly more complex company like Microsoft? And do you really think the engineer EVPs at Microsoft would work for Forstall when they're probably just as qualified, if not more so, to run the company themselves?
 

Glideslope

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2007
8,011
5,466
The Adirondacks.
Traveling and Philanthropy aka Unemployment

Maybe he is waiting for Tim to get canned? LOL. Scott need to focus on one item.

"There is no I in Team". :apple:

----------

My dream scenario is that Forstall becomes CEO of Microsoft with a blank cheque to transform the company, and then beats the arrogant Apple crowd at its own game.

It was Scott's own arrogance that led to his removal from Apple. :)
 

proline

macrumors 6502a
Nov 18, 2012
630
1
I don't get why everyone gripes about it. Yeah, there are a few things that need tweaking, but overall, it's so much better than iOS 6 that I can't believe people still gripe.
Hardly anyone does. MacRumors up vote only system is designed to attract trolls. It isn't very hard to post a mindless "iOS 7 is teh suck!" and get 15 up votes to become a featured comment. Meanwhile, if down votes were allowed such a comment would get to about -100 in no time. Ars Technica has such a system and it promotes a much better conversation- iOS 7 flaws are fair game if you are willing to acknowledge what any sane person would- overall iOS 7 is massively better than iOS 6 and is by far the most used version of iOS in history.
 

Glideslope

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2007
8,011
5,466
The Adirondacks.
It would really be interesting to see if he takes the Steve Jobs route. Starts his own company which forces him to mature as a manager and goes back to Apple.

Apple would take him back. I just don't see the maturity as a manager getting to that point. Although a year off conduction philanthropic activities may have helped him see the other side. :apple:
 

proline

macrumors 6502a
Nov 18, 2012
630
1
Please come back Scott! iOS 7 is so nasty, they need some real help in the team.
Scott was pretty much out of ideas. Quick! Name one iOS 6 innovation besides Apple Maps? (Without resorting to Wikipedia). iOS 6 had almost nothing new and led to a huge shift in sentiment against Apple. iOS 7 has righted the ship. The first 100% Ive creation, the iPhone 5S + iOS 7, is by far Apple's biggest hit of all time.
 

proline

macrumors 6502a
Nov 18, 2012
630
1
I'm not much of a student of the corporate wheres and hows in all this tech industry stuff, but this confuses me. My impression was that RIM's downfall came from just what you seem to be espousing for Apple: they stuck to the professional, corporate market and ignored the "fickle consumer market" and got crushed.
Yeah, the person you are responding to gets the cake for most ridiculous comment of the day. The consumer market, not the business market, is where most of the $ is. Self-styled "Pros", many of them little more than IT weenies working in cubicle farms, can stomp up and down that Apple is listening to them all day, but Apple's bottom line shows exactly where it's at.

----------

iOS 7 is a joke. Please fix it Forstall.
You realize you are praying to a guy who isn't even allowed on Apple's campus, right? Do you expect him to write a whole OS for you in his basement?
 

studio¹³¹

macrumors 6502
Jul 31, 2009
343
182
And you can find equally if not more baffling designs in Aqua from 2001.

No ones going to sail into new territory and find every single landmark the first time. It takes a few voyages to really get a comfortable feel for a new direction. Forstalls design paradigm that debuted in 2001 took a decade to get as polished as it was. If "tilty text" is your biggest complaint with 7, then they're already on track far quicker than they were with Aqua.

Not my biggest complaint, no -- just an indication of the laziness and lack of detail when making design decisions in iOS 7. Not a fan of skeuomorphism either. I wanted 'flat' too. Just well-designed flat.
 

Johnf1285

macrumors 6502a
Dec 25, 2010
965
61
He's been traveling and advising start-ups on how to add leather stitching to all of their iOS apps.
 

Spinland

macrumors 6502
Jul 16, 2011
320
1
Utica, NY, USA
Yeah, the person you are responding to gets the cake for most ridiculous comment of the day. The consumer market, not the business market, is where most of the $ is. Self-styled "Pros", many of them little more than IT weenies working in cubicle farms, can stomp up and down that Apple is listening to them all day, but Apple's bottom line shows exactly where it's at.

Understood. I consider myself a "Pro" in that I make my living creating stuff using these Apple products I buy. I, for one, have loved iOS 7 since it came out, and its integration with Mavericks (especially for managing meeting dates and locations with clients and synchronizing them between devices) has been a great benefit for me. I also support the direction the new Mac Pro is taking and I will be lined up to buy one for my Studio the day they become available.

People just generally seem to dislike (even fear) change, and there's no use trying to please everyone because it's simply not possible. Some will adapt, others will move on, and I have no doubt that Apple will weather (even be the agent of) this change just fine.
 

AgentElliot007

macrumors 6502a
Mar 22, 2010
575
363
I would like to think Scott comes back into the fold a few years from now a little less abrasive. Seems like that was the main reason he was shown the door.

This wouldn't shock me, but there will definitely have to be some fundamental changes with him to be welcomed back. Talented or not, he pissed off far too many other people that are also ridiculously talented. He was a major, major player at Apple, and was responsible for heading up the group that created the software behind their most successful product. And he got fired.

Now, I don't think Tim Cook is the CEO that Steve Jobs was, and I doubt all of his decisions are great ones. But I don't for a second think that the decision to fire Forstall was taken lightly, and I think it's absurd that people continue to try and suggest that this was simply part of the Maps controversy. Tim Cook is far too smart for that. I have little doubt that the Maps controversy likely brought several issues to a head, but from what has been said by Tim Cook and others that have real insight into the situation, Scott Forstall just couldn't get along with people. Tim Cook handled the situation well when he focused on the need for A+ collaboration, because it tells you everything you need to know about why Forstall was fired without delving into the gory details.

Again, we know from enough ex-Apple people that there are plenty of gory details with Forstall, but the bottom line was Forstall couldn't collaborate well for years, and he still couldn't collaborate at a point in time when iOS was starting to feel stale while new features debuted with problems (Maps) and next to no support (Passbook).

But there's no denying his brilliance. If he can learn from his mistakes and grow and prove that he can be a team player, I would not be shocked at all to see him brought back into the fold at some point in the future. But it's really a big if, though perhaps in time, Mansfield will officially move on and Ive will develop a little more respect for Forstall's knack for functional UIs and they'll find a way to bridge some gaps. Ive has a lot of interesting design ideas that definitely work with iOS 7, but there are many areas that clearly need work and need the touch of a guy who really, deeply understands software and user interfaces. And for as much as I believe it was the right decision to fire him, I still believe he has something he can offer that Apple ultimately still needs.

I wouldn't expect anything for five years though at the earliest. It's going to take time if it's ever going to happen.
 

tbrand7

macrumors 6502
Feb 8, 2013
265
0
New York
My dream scenario is that Forstall becomes CEO of Microsoft with a blank cheque to transform the company, and then beats the arrogant Apple crowd at its own game.

Apple has already started the transition of becoming the next Microsoft, in all the worst senses. Forstall could re-work Windows 8.

Think of it. If Windows 8 becomes fantastic under Forstall, it doesn't need to battle for market share since it already is king of the park in terms of marketshare.

Then Apple might be buried in its arrogant stash of cash, with a tombstone that reads: pride comes before a fall.

The take-home lesson for Apple, from Blackberry, is that having a massive pile of cash cannot save a company, once the fickle public decides they like something else.

Apple will have to get killed under a truck to learn the lesson that you discard the professional market at your peril, by solely chasing the fickle consumer market.

Remember: Pros need to keep their systems consistent, year after year, to get their jobs done - whereas consumers change whims as fast as throwing out Sony in preference to Samsung.

There has to be a payback day for Apple throwing out matte antiglare screens that many pro's need - and dumbing down the software to cater for idiots who can't figure out how to use a multi-layered filing system.

If there's justice in the universe, there has to be a payback date.

If your sole reason for thinking Apple cannot fall, is because of their massive pile of money, then, you, my friend, are not a student of corporate history.

Ever heard of Pullman Palace Car Company?

Why do you even visit this site? Your obviously not a fan of anything Apple.
 

JayCee842

macrumors 6502a
Jan 21, 2013
589
0
LOL the comments on this thread are too much. But damn I hate iOS7, too. Please come back! :eek:
 

MonstaMash

macrumors regular
Dec 24, 2011
205
82
I honestly don't understand people that prefer iOS 6 over iOS 7. It seems like the majority of people like iOS 7, and this forum seems to bring out the vocal minority. I know iOS 7 isn't perfect, but it's so much better and a step in the right direction.



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