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Former Shake Product Designer: Apple Doesn't Care About Pro Market

nostaws said:
I think we are missing an important part of this FCP X debacle.

For what they do, Apple is a relatively small company. They have groups of programmers that finish one product then shift their focus onto another.

I don't think they have the resources (by choice?) to focus on a mature piece of software and make it better over time. Apple is consistently "re-inventing".

Think about their software. Very few applications are "mature."
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Apple is making cash loads of money. One record braking Quarter after another. They DO have the financial resources to hire more programmers and restructure their software developing teams. It seems to me, that the recent software release were never free of accompanying rumble here in forums and elsewhere: Software buggy, incomplete, etc.

For a company, which is finically as successful as Apple, it is a worrying trend, if not a shame. Because if reputation has taken a hit and/or less and less professionals are using Apple, then the coolness factor will wear off and all of a sudden the iGadgets might not be so attractive anymore for a lot of people.

Steve is said to have an urge form perfection: form, shading of colors (see the white iPhone story). That makes the recent software releases really puzzling.

Having said that, I really hope they come around and implement the missing features in FCPX ASAP. But my fear is, the next months Apple's focus is directed again on the new iPhone and it's OS and various variations of the iPod.
 
Apple's fanboys need to chill.
I am a huge Apple fan, have been using their software/hardware for 20 + years. Survived the hard days of Gil Amelio's tenure and happily watched Steve bring Apple back from the brink of extinction.

Let's be honest, Apple while still support the professional creative community, they have been in the last 5+ years not taking to much attention to us. I make my living using Apple and I would hope they will not leave us behind to become a company solely focused on mainstream with iPads and iPhones.

Criticism is a good thing. I am glad to see the professional community up in arms against FCPX. While I don't mind a new revolutionary way to edit, they just did not bring so many essential things that made FCP such a powerful and desirable software. Let's hope all the noise will help make the next iteration of FCP a true professional software.
 
iDisk said:
The "Pro" market complainers need to THINK DIFFERENT, not Apple, cause FCPX is different..
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Yeah... think different, like the masses do...
I remember when owning a mac was a sort of making a statement. We supported this company in its darkest times. Nowadays, well, everybody has an iPod, an iPad, an iDon'tknowwhatdevice and they call themselves mac experts. Ok.

Oh, and get off my lawn!!
 
Stop calling Brinkman a whiner

Seriously, out of all the opinions here, people calling Brinkman a whiner is really annoying me.
What part of his post is whining? He says that what Apple is doing makes sense for Apple, just they're not looking at the really top end Hollywood market. New features are decided by Apple's vision rather than influenced by customers and that the products are great value for money, but if you're a top end film studio, it might not be for you.
This is not whining, it's an educated opinion!
 
Problem with this kind of thinking...

Is that often these high-end products drive the entire market segment. So, if the VFX folks walk away, the next tier, then the next tier, and eventually those amateur users all start seeing Apple as not being the solution for that kind of work. It might not even be true, but that will be the perception.

For example, I used to do a good amount of work in CAD and 3D modeling. There were actually some awesome products from low through the mid-high end range for the Mac. But, the general perception, because a few key high end products were absent from the platform, was that if you want to do CAD and 3D modeling, you get a PC.

In other words, because the high-end (what everyone pays attention to) was missing, the low-end assumed the platform didn't cut it, and went with the lower-end packages on the platform that had the high-end products.

While Apple is generally doing really well, I think this is short-sighted penny-pinching. They will likely do well even if the whole video-market bails, but they could do even better if they paid attention to it properly.

I'd note a similar blunder in the server market with cutting the xServe. It might not have been generating a lot of revenue, but that product was at least pertly responsible for Apple gaining some sliver of respectability in IT.
 
rhuber said:
You also have to keep in mind that those pro's, in no small part, were somewhat responsible for the resurgence of apple computers.
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Self serving rubbish that gets continuously served up on these forums. "We saved Apple so they owe us" . The vast majority of macs have always been sold to people who are not in some high end graphics designer niche or some higher end, even smaller, video editing niche. Microsoft did far more by kicking in some cash (not merely buying product ) and keeping Office on the platform than any of these narrow niche products did.
If the only folks buying were these high end folks the application ecosystem would have dried up and withered away.

Each sale helped but not disproportionally once normalize to scale.
 
SteveW928 said:
Is that often these high-end products drive the entire market segment. So, if the VFX folks walk away, the next tier, then the next tier, and eventually those amateur users all start seeing Apple as not being the solution for that kind of work. It might not even be true, but that will be the perception.

For example, I used to do a good amount of work in CAD and 3D modeling. There were actually some awesome products from low through the mid-high end range for the Mac. But, the general perception, because a few key high end products were absent from the platform, was that if you want to do CAD and 3D modeling, you get a PC.

In other words, because the high-end (what everyone pays attention to) was missing, the low-end assumed the platform didn't cut it, and went with the lower-end packages on the platform that had the high-end products.

While Apple is generally doing really well, I think this is short-sighted penny-pinching. They will likely do well even if the whole video-market bails, but they could do even better if they paid attention to it properly.

I'd note a similar blunder in the server market with cutting the xServe. It might not have been generating a lot of revenue, but that product was at least pertly responsible for Apple gaining some sliver of respectability in IT.
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Steve

That's what made Final Cut Pro what it is today. It was the program for the rest of us who couldn't afford a megabuck Avid system. If the high end VFX guys called all the shots there'd be no Final Cut Pro.

In CAD is may be a bit different because you may need to deliver a final product in AutoCAD format or something else. In video the end result is either a tape or a digital file that has video properly cut, edited and synchronized to audio. What's causing the strife somewhat is a change in workflow because of the need to export to different apps to finish. I think this issue is more concerning to high end bays than say a videographer that would just rather keep the setup to say FCPX and Logic Studio for audio with a suite of plugins needed.

End the end FCPX will connect to other systems but that clearly wasn't ready yet for launch.
 
apple was a small company in the past, they need pro support, but now they sell to mass users. i support apple move to home user.
 
Whining Adobe Bots

Give the whining Adobe bots their day in the sun. What will be really fun is to come back here in 1 year when FCPX has been through the same cycle we all know so well. Initially the iPod, iPhone, iPad, iMovie (both versions) etc. etc. were all doomed by the hysterical nay sayers who resist all change.
Well, resistance is futile - you have been Apple-assimilated.

Now let's revisit this thread in 1 year when FCPX rules the industry, and in the mean time just let the whining bots have their day in the sun. It's a limited ride ahead for them. We'll remember their names for later ;)

Do I smell the flamethrowers charging ??? ;)
 
grue said:
Wrooooooooong.


Apple didn't just screw the pooch, they knocked it out and raped it in the parking lot.
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No, what they did was to reposition the product to a new and different vision that they feel will be much more successful for them. I have no doubt that it will. We all are sorry that people like you are being left behind in this transition. But Apple, like any company, does what they think is best for the company, not for each of it's users. This is just a fact. Apple of all of the major computer companies is the quickest to change direction and move in some other direction. That's what they have done here.

Why "pro's" thought that a $300 product, that was replacing a $1000 product, in a market that normally has costs in the tens of thousands of dollars was going to work out for you is just beyond me.

Apple has cut from the past and is now moving on to it's future. Now it's your turn. Sorry.
 
House

The way I see it, FCP 7 was like an old house. There were all sorts of ghetto remedies to get it to work the way it did, but ultimately the house was old and nothing could be done to upgrade it. So apple made a new house. They started fresh and created A more modern house (fcpx). Better wiring. Better plumbing, better framework.

Now i know The bathroom is in a different part of the house, and the kitchen looks different. But that's no reason not to move in. If theres no walk-in closet the master bedroom... And your old house had one... Then stay in your old house until a walk-in closet is built.

I know there are some features missing that a small (incredibly vocal) minority is in "desperate" need of... But to be honest FCPX is the future.Most of those little features will be added within the year.

Everyone cried about the iPad being a big iPod, and how it didn't have USB...look how many companies are mimicking the iPad now. Look how many ppl love the product. Half the ppl on this blog have never even tried to edit in fcpx... Stop throwing rocks at a house you've never even entered, just because some "pro" said it was bad.
 
Considering the price drop this does seem to be more in line with been in the middle when it comes to the user level. Not exactly pro but not so amateur based that a majority of people can't get what they want out of it. I think Apple is in the right track if they want to reach 90% of the population that does not need or has alternative they can pick from.
 
SteveW928 said:
I'd note a similar blunder in the server market with cutting the xServe. It might not have been generating a lot of revenue, but that product was at least pertly responsible for Apple gaining some sliver of respectability in IT.
Click to expand...

Blunder? by what metric. The number of Mac OS X Server sales are up since they transitioned away from XServe. They will be up further once it is just a 'add on' app to Lion.

A not so small minority of the folks complaining at the end was not so much about XServe ( "we didn't really like them anyway" ) it was that couldn't get the virtualiztaion clause on Mac OS X Server flipped over to the more clone oriented hardware they buying anyway.


Respect doesn't pay the bills. The "I have a list of 25 preconditions before I will consider your product" IT folks weren't buy them. Apple played the game of adding features that were "must haves" only for the list to get longer. It is a control freak game. As the article if you want to getting into a MMA control freak match with Steve Jobs ..... you are probably going to loose.

Some of those folks don't want the 'cost per seat' of the software to go down because that gives them more leverage over the software developer. The problem is that Apple isn't a "for hire" software contractor firm. They'll take feedback and adopt some insights. But they aren't going to be dictated to.
 
If something is working why fix it!

If something is working why fix it APPLE.
Redesigned from the ground up! WHY It just needed a few upgrades.

I thought something was up when they laid off half there Final cut developers. Also, there was no real media event for FCPX, They had one when FCP 7 and Final Cut Server.
They killed FC SERVER too, wow that was dropped fast. I'm glad I am not a big post house.
This is the thing, I love Apple, but it hurts when they stick a knife in to you.

If your a Pro and has been using Final Cut since version 1 like me, Apple just took a big dump on you. All the time and investments we have made over the years just got put out with the trash.
If your a new editor and FCX looks like the future then learn Avid so when you get a job editing you know how to use it.

Has apple ever developed a pro app from the ground up?
I know that Apple bought FCP just like it did shake and color.
You cant call Motion a pro app and apple bought Logic which soundtracks came from.
:eek:
Logic is next.
:eek:
 
tdar said:
Why "pro's" thought that a $300 product, that was replacing a $1000 product, in a market that normally has costs in the tens of thousands of dollars was going to work out for you is just beyond me.
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Because, it did.

Do you really need to remember that?
 
deconstruct60 said:
Self serving rubbish that gets continuously served up on these forums. "We saved Apple so they owe us" . The vast majority of macs have always been sold to people who are not in some high end graphics designer niche or some higher end, even smaller, video editing niche. Microsoft did far more by kicking in some cash (not merely buying product ) and keeping Office on the platform than any of these narrow niche products did.
If the only folks buying were these high end folks the application ecosystem would have dried up and withered away.

Each sale helped but not disproportionally once normalize to scale.
Click to expand...

I don't think that, between the two of us, mine was the self serving rubbish-filled comment. I'm guessing you didn't actually read the post, because you completely missed the point that I was making. This has nothing to do with "us" or anyone owing anything to anybody. My comment was about the rebuilding of apple based on a specific approach... targeting schools and establishing their mac brand as powerful high-end solutions for those who create... and recently reversing that approach. Make of it what you will, but I really don't think it was that difficult a concept to follow.
 
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The bottom line is this is a business. Apple makes billions each year. Why should they change their products to fit a slim number of people? Half the people on here that call themselves "pros" aren't even professionals.
 
CmonSon said:
The way I see it, FCP 7 was like an old house. There were all sorts of ghetto remedies to get it to work the way it did, but ultimately the house was old and nothing could be done to upgrade it. So apple made a new house. They started fresh and created A more modern house (fcpx). Better wiring. Better plumbing, better framework.

Now i know The bathroom is in a different part of the house, and the kitchen looks different. But that's no reason not to move in. If theres no walk-in closet the master bedroom... And your old house had one... Then stay in your old house until a walk-in closet is built.

I know there are some features missing that a small (incredibly vocal) minority is in "desperate" need of... But to be honest FCPX is the future.Most of those little features will be added within the year.

Everyone cried about the iPad being a big iPod, and how it didn't have USB...look how many companies are mimicking the iPad now. Look how many ppl love the product. Half the ppl on this blog have never even tried to edit in fcpx... Stop throwing rocks at a house you've never even entered, just because some "pro" said it was bad.
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That may be, but to a prosumer who can't even import their FCS projects into FCPX, why even bother?

Someone who's already started a project has to start over again because Apple is "planning" to implement this feature within the year?

I'm pretty sure it's not SOME "pro", there's lots of pros out there that can't stand FCPX. Just look at the App Store.
 
w00t951 said:
I really don't don't see why Apple screwed up so badly. They could have kept Final Cut Pro "Pro," and dumbed down Final Cut Express or maybe created a lite version of Final Cut Pro for the masses... This is a huge mistake.
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How so, are they wrong. Why does Apple need to do any of the above. They have made a product that does plenty, even if its not up to par to the Pro's but then how many Pro's are out there that can't use something else. They are smart they are not trying to compete with the Pro developer but bringing something cheaper that still can be used by those not need ever last bit.

I am sure they will in time upgrade some things, but making things more accessible to many more people and keep the price down actually makes sense. Even if we don't see it yet.
 
tdar said:
Why "pro's" thought that a $300 product, that was replacing a $1000 product, in a market that normally has costs in the tens of thousands of dollars was going to work out for you is just beyond me.
Click to expand...

Alias Media Composer has "add-ons" that cost extra. Most likely FCPX will to. Eventually there could be add-ons that raise the price back up to the $1,000 level (or above since not amortizing these feature costs over the whole user base ) and they will only be leaving behind an even smaller percentage of the market. The in-app store functionality of the Mac App store are a natural next step for Apple to leverage. There is no pressing "need" to have a product with a different name to which to attach the "add ons". For example, for Lion "Mac OS Server" will just be an add-on. there will be no separate OS product SKU for Server anymore.


What is more important is to get the core out and brought to stability before adding the "add ons". Not the artifical segmentation between "Final Cut Express" and "Final Cut Pro". Some folks are too caught up in the superficial elements of product names and version numbers.
 
Any of the "Pros" out there who rushed to disrupt their workflows with a brand-new application richly deserve what they received. Any true Pro - in any field - waits for the software or hardware to be proven before making the jump. The only "Pros" who are making loud whining sounds about their workflows being disrupted are not professionals at all.

As for the rest... anyone who feels that this is the final version of FCPX needs their head examined. As a large stockholder (over 8000 shares) I greatly appreciate Apple aiming for the larger market and not overdeveloping a niche application to sell at a loss simply so they can pacify a tiny market. Same reason Pages does not directly compete with Word, etc.
 
Fcp7-fcpx

jbyun04 said:
That may be, but to a prosumer who can't even import their FCS projects into FCPX, why even bother?

Someone who's already started a project has to start over again because Apple is "planning" to implement this feature within the year?

I'm pretty sure it's not SOME "pro", there's lots of pros out there that can't stand FCPX. Just look at the App Store.
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Half the AppStore comments are complaints from ppl who resist change and have their noses up there asses... The other half are legitimate professionals that actually use the features that were left out.

I've actually worked on a fcp7 project in fcpx ... Simply export the fcp7 project as a video, then import it into fcpx and use the same footage to replace/add/edit. Either do that, or finish ur project in fcp7. No one is forcing anyone to use fcpx right away. The beauty of fcpx is that it doesnt overwrite or uninstall the older application.
 
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I wish Apple would buy Autodesk Maya, strip out half the guff, and turn it into something highly intuitive and usable.
 
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