Does anyone hold up the beer when driving by the cops?
Just like in a lot of states you see people put there cellphone down when they see a cop
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Foxconn Accused of Hiding Underage Workers During Audits
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Just like in a lot of states you see people put there cellphone down when they see a cop
Same here. I couldn't get a job at 14, and on my 5th attempt the interviewer told me to give up mainly because no one wanted to hire someone that was undoubtedly going to leave in a few months to a year tops.
I finally nailed a dream job as a janitor for a local elementary school. Had it for four years and learned a lot.
Now, not one kid in many of the neighborhoods in Baltimore can get jobs, so they run the streets, doing not so good things. Putting 14-17 years olds to work is actually a VERY GOOD THING.
What's with these Foxconn rumors anyhow? One or two sure . . . . but after that we need to get back on the new Mac Pro/iMac/iPad 3 bandwagon.
Eh. Even I think this is a bit of a non story. A 16-17 year old working in a factory isn't that bad. As long as they're being paid a decent amount, allowed to go to school, and aren't forced to work 80+ hours a week, it's really...eh.
Now if they were a bunch of dirty faced, tear stained 12 year olds slapping iPads together, and were all stuffed in a warehouse for the audit, that'd be an entirely different matter altogether.
Now if they were a bunch of dirty faced, tear stained 12 year olds slapping iPads together, and were all stuffed in a warehouse for the audit, that'd be an entirely different matter altogether.
better investigate McDonald's
I think they hire "underage" workers as well.
There is a vast difference from having 12 year old children work in a slave camp 60 hours a week and 16 and 17 year old's having a part-time job.
The article is vague and implies wrong doing. Perhaps the part stating they have 16 and 17 year olds under Apple guidelines might be a clue as to the situation being in accordance with what a normal non conspiracy person might find appropriate.
I think they hire "underage" workers as well.
There is a vast difference from having 12 year old children work in a slave camp 60 hours a week and 16 and 17 year old's having a part-time job.
The article is vague and implies wrong doing. Perhaps the part stating they have 16 and 17 year olds under Apple guidelines might be a clue as to the situation being in accordance with what a normal non conspiracy person might find appropriate.
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HA I love it (a nice "slushi" sounds good right now, is it 5 o'clock yet? It is in London!)
When I was in my 20's living in NYC, I worked at Crobar bartending 5 nights a week, 9pm-6am, then had classes at Columbia from 8~4 pm, slept a bit, gym, then back to work. 5 days a week. 'Course I was making mad money, some night $1k around 2003-2005, but man I couldn't do that now.
What is the legal age for working? Is it federal or state mandated?
Just watched the Nightline report on YouTube. Very interesting.
They're just kids trying to make a life for themselves away from the grinding poverty of their rural homeland. They deserve our support. If we don't support them and press for better pay and conditions nobody else will. The Chinese government doesn't give a s***.
They're just kids trying to make a life for themselves away from the grinding poverty of their rural homeland. They deserve our support. If we don't support them and press for better pay and conditions nobody else will. The Chinese government doesn't give a s***.
WOW. The peace sign pose, aka 'tokyo pose'... way to live up to the stereotype.
I remember playing baseball and soccer nearly year round until I was about 19 when I finally got cut from the college team and got a job. Shouldn't have got cut, would have given me another few years of not having to work
It could be worse, they could all be sitting at home waiting for their Entitlement, errrr Government checks to arrive.
I thought I was going to be the only one to say, "Why are people surprised?" but i guess no one really is and seems everyone here understands what's really happening.
It IS a communist country. People are TOLD what to do. And there government is a huge contributor to all this. Can't expect Apple to single handedly police things that happen there. The world needs to get invovled.
But it's amazing how things work. When the US gets invovled people say, "Mind your own business." When they don't get involved people say, "You did nothing and just watched people suffer."
People and there double standards!! Sheeesh!
It IS a communist country. People are TOLD what to do. And there government is a huge contributor to all this. Can't expect Apple to single handedly police things that happen there. The world needs to get invovled.
But it's amazing how things work. When the US gets invovled people say, "Mind your own business." When they don't get involved people say, "You did nothing and just watched people suffer."
People and there double standards!! Sheeesh!
Peace said:
Eidorian said:
CRIIM44 said:
Good for you guys, but child labor isn't a contest to see who has the biggest c**k.
I'd rather see people at that age full-time in a classroom so that their future has a chance to be better. They have the rest of their lives to be a cog in the machine if they so choose.
Yes I feel all warm and fuzzy inside when an ignorant generation forgets the past and returns to it.DerekRod said:
Yeah, the good ol' days...
Not really.
The thing to remember about the iPad (and other Apple products) is that they are updated pretty much every year. And there is probably a very short time period between when design engineering finishes, and the product goes into production.
These two factors make it all but impossible to design a lot of automation into the assembly process.
Factory managers and industrial engineers have to do calculations that take into account the trade-off between the cost of having a human do a specific task, and having a machine do it.
Say you could replace five workers with a machine that costs $1 million. Now, if you can be pretty sure the machine will be used on next years product, and a few years after that, then you get to depreciate it over a longer time span - say ten years, for a cost of $100,000 per year. If each worker costs you $20,000 per year, the cost of the two is equivalent. But if you know that even the smallest change in the product is going to mean the machine isn't going work - then having workers do the job is the better choice.
Its also important to remember that its much easier to scale production with human workers than it is with machines. If you designed a fully-automated production line that can make a million widgets per year - you'd better hope you don't sell 1.5 million widgets - or you are going to need another production line. Or - if you only sell a half million, then half your investment will be wasted. Its much, much easier for Foxconn to recruit and train another 10,000 workers than it is to create a fully automated assembly line.
The other issue is that it generally takes a lot of time for industrial and manufacturing engineers to figure out, and make, special tooling that is going to make manufacture less labor-intensive. Apple probably only releases its products to large-scale manufacturing a month or two before they go on sale. Not enough time to order specialized machines, or make custom jigs that would eliminate labor.
Thats ONE of the reasons Apple couldn't possibly make the iPad in the USA.
Here's the issue though: It's China. Not America, not UK. The government will do as they will with regards to pay etc.
There will always be someplace crappier to live. Think China is rough? How about a nice comfy hut in Haiti? No, perhaps a swanky condo in Homs, Syria.
You cannot change the world. At least these people have food, shelter, heat in the cold weather and hopefully enough to put aside a bit of savings.
It's nice that people care but sometimes you just can't do Jack about it. Some place always has it worse.
If it's a safe job, I could understand. If it's something dangerous like working in a saw mill close to the actual saws, I'd leave that to the adults.
Doesn't Newt Gingrich think that current child labor laws in the US are stupid? I think I heard he wants kids to work as janitors in their schools to help bring in money for their families. But here's the rub: I hear he wants to fire the unionized janitors and replace them with kids, probably for lower pay. So to help families, he wants to make the father unemployed & have his kid replace him for less pay. Um, yeah.
For a start - lets see some proof about all these Red Scare manufacturing claims at Foxconn.
Secondly - I had my first job at 14, by 16 I was sweating in a large restaurant kitchen washing dishes with only a 5 minute break every evening. When it was especially busy there was no way I could take a break.
There was no minimum wage then either and I wasn't complaining.
No I don't think people should be slaves - but 16 and 17 year olds working hard isn't something sensational. How about doing some segments at US and Euro manufacturing plants - bet you'll see all sorts of shady stuff in many places there.
Secondly - I had my first job at 14, by 16 I was sweating in a large restaurant kitchen washing dishes with only a 5 minute break every evening. When it was especially busy there was no way I could take a break.
There was no minimum wage then either and I wasn't complaining.
No I don't think people should be slaves - but 16 and 17 year olds working hard isn't something sensational. How about doing some segments at US and Euro manufacturing plants - bet you'll see all sorts of shady stuff in many places there.
Reality Check
The problem is that, in the west, we want great technology and we always think it is too expensive - we want it cheaper. We have developed a standard of living that may not be maintainable in light of our expectations.
The wages paid to these workers probably cost less than robots, either that or the pressure to create jobs is such that it is better for Foxconn to employ people. If you watched the Nightline segment, you saw a sample of the living conditions these workers may have grown up with. For some, the crowded dorm is an improvement. There is no reason your roommates in the dorm would have to remain strangers. You could get to know them in time.
We have no frame of reference in the west for the scale of production used in the east or the scope of competition for jobs in the east.
I appreciate that Apple is making an effort to improve things or at least evaluate things. Anyone that has ever participated in an audit knows that unless you are an auditor, you are unlikely to know all of the things that the auditor is looking for. They will find issues even if a show is being put on.
Perhaps the audit protocol also includes surprise visits. Which of course they wouldn't put in the press because they are... well ... a surprise.
Let's see an article on the factories producing Dell, HP, Toshiba and Lenovo next.
The problem is that, in the west, we want great technology and we always think it is too expensive - we want it cheaper. We have developed a standard of living that may not be maintainable in light of our expectations.
The wages paid to these workers probably cost less than robots, either that or the pressure to create jobs is such that it is better for Foxconn to employ people. If you watched the Nightline segment, you saw a sample of the living conditions these workers may have grown up with. For some, the crowded dorm is an improvement. There is no reason your roommates in the dorm would have to remain strangers. You could get to know them in time.
We have no frame of reference in the west for the scale of production used in the east or the scope of competition for jobs in the east.
I appreciate that Apple is making an effort to improve things or at least evaluate things. Anyone that has ever participated in an audit knows that unless you are an auditor, you are unlikely to know all of the things that the auditor is looking for. They will find issues even if a show is being put on.
Perhaps the audit protocol also includes surprise visits. Which of course they wouldn't put in the press because they are... well ... a surprise.
Let's see an article on the factories producing Dell, HP, Toshiba and Lenovo next.
If it’s true, Apple’s not the one hiding it, Apple’s the one investigating it (and asking the FLA to do so.) If the FLA is any good at what they do, the truth will emerge here. I’m sure (and Apple has always known) that many more changes are needed.
I find this believable, and I find rules that protect children to be worth enforcing. I don’t object to the fundamental concept of working at all as a teenager of course. But regulating how, and how many hours, they work makes sense. Otherwise, why hide them (if true)? I doubt the rules about underage labor in China are unfairly strict at present! If even the limited rules that exist are being broken, that’s worth digging to the bottom of.
I find this believable, and I find rules that protect children to be worth enforcing. I don’t object to the fundamental concept of working at all as a teenager of course. But regulating how, and how many hours, they work makes sense. Otherwise, why hide them (if true)? I doubt the rules about underage labor in China are unfairly strict at present! If even the limited rules that exist are being broken, that’s worth digging to the bottom of.
Doesn't Newt Gingrich think that current child labor laws in the US are stupid? I think I heard he wants kids to work as janitors in their schools to help bring in money for their families. But here's the rub: I hear he wants to fire the unionized janitors and replace them with kids, probably for lower pay. So to help families, he wants to make the father unemployed & have his kid replace him for less pay. Um, yeah.
hey at least they will be in a space colony, lolz