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The thing that was clear last night, particularly from the detail that, although the chips are machine-made, the iPhone itself is the product of about 300 -- I forget exactly -- sets of hands, young eyesight and endless repetition, that's where they have us for the moment. Bring it back here and you'd have to invest in some serious robotic production, because there's no way they could afford the masses of young workers in America, even if they paid minimum wage. They'd have a much quieter factory floor and a few dozen workers to stop the line or do a finishing detail or inspection-- not the thousands and thousands of workers. American workers, in fact, are far more productive when used that way. But why do it, our bosses say, when we don't have to invest in China; these kids are incredibly disciplined, and Chinese society keeps them quiet.

Yeah, exactly, they should actually bother to do some process improvement.

According to the report each iPad has roughly 18 hours of labor in it. Just what do you think your union buddies are willing to accept for 18 man hours of work? Would you buy an iPad for $1200?

I'm nonunion myself, but for manufacturing, I'd like to buy products that are union-made.

Like Swift said, they would have to actually improve the manufacturing process instead of using cheap labor to avoid process improvement.
 
There are plenty of companies in the western world that work teenagers ( i.e., < 16 ) illegally - i.e., excessive hours etc.

Western companies aren't much better.
 
Not surprised, it's expected to hide underage workers during audits. I would be surprised if an audit is truly unannounced.
 
There are plenty of companies in the western world that work teenagers ( i.e., < 16 ) illegally - i.e., excessive hours etc.

Western companies aren't much better.

Ehhh. I don't know about that. It's very much on-the-books regularly enforced illegal, and you've got a ton of watchdog groups looking out for just that sort of thing. If a company were to overwork underage employees, the only thing keeping them from facing a teetotal legal ****storm would be a single phonecall to the right people.
 
When do we start hearing accusations that the Foxconn is hiding Elvis and that Apple is responsible for sun spots and balding?
 
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ThunderSkunk said:
I don't think you know what that word (slave) means. Look it up.


He means wage slavery. Not chattel slavery, or even indentured servitude. Still valid.

There's more than one type of slavery.


...I worked full time in a rural aluminum plant at 14. OSHA reps were paid off at the door. You couldn't see across the place with all the aluminum dust in the air, and everyone coughed black and there were as many missing fingers as there were employees, everyone had acid burns from the dripping hooks whizzing past at head height with zero safety precautions. We all ran everywhere we went all day long and injuries were a given. Any losses incurred came out of your paycheck. One sunday afternoon, luckily while no one was there, the facility exploded in a flash when a huge pile of aluminum powder spontaneously exploded, because it was damp and no one followed any hazmat guidelines. The farthest piece of machinery was a big lathe found in a farmers field nearly three miles away.

In retrospect, everyone should experience such a work environment. I guarantee it'd cut down on the zero-regulation utopian fantasy so popular among politicians these days.

So popular?!? Have you seen the regulation currently in the USA?
 
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BiggAW said:
The thing that was clear last night, particularly from the detail that, although the chips are machine-made, the iPhone itself is the product of about 300 -- I forget exactly -- sets of hands, young eyesight and endless repetition, that's where they have us for the moment. Bring it back here and you'd have to invest in some serious robotic production, because there's no way they could afford the masses of young workers in America, even if they paid minimum wage. They'd have a much quieter factory floor and a few dozen workers to stop the line or do a finishing detail or inspection-- not the thousands and thousands of workers. American workers, in fact, are far more productive when used that way. But why do it, our bosses say, when we don't have to invest in China; these kids are incredibly disciplined, and Chinese society keeps them quiet.

Yeah, exactly, they should actually bother to do some process improvement.

According to the report each iPad has roughly 18 hours of labor in it. Just what do you think your union buddies are willing to accept for 18 man hours of work? Would you buy an iPad for $1200?

I'm nonunion myself, but for manufacturing, I'd like to buy products that are union-made.

Like Swift said, they would have to actually improve the manufacturing process instead of using cheap labor to avoid process improvement.

Which would result in ZERO humans involved. What's the point?
 
Ehhh. I don't know about that. It's very much on-the-books regularly enforced illegal, and you've got a ton of watchdog groups looking out for just that sort of thing. If a company were to overwork underage employees, the only thing keeping them from facing a teetotal legal ****storm would be a single phonecall to the right people.

One example - a company who should have known better....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/1466398.stm


A lot of smaller businesses are guilty.. there is never a phone call for various reasons - the kids like working there, they don't want to lose their jobs, don't know the rights, or just don't care etc etc.
 
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Who Cares

I am so sick and tired of all these blog posts on law suits and industry crap, who the hell cares? Macrumors is about to get bumped off my morning coffee reading list.
 
WHO CARES

move to China if you care so much how their country operates.

As I have said many times before over the last year or so.

APPLE should begin making their products in the USA and China.

APPLE should use some of their 80 billion in cash stores and help the USA by investing in production of microchips, hardware and their own products.

Would it be a bit more costly to produce here in the USA? Sure.

But maybe by making a bit less in profits per item is worth the price in producing USA jobs and securing the production of electronic components our world society is beginning to be more reliant on each and every day
 
I started working in the summers at 14 years of age and it didn't kill me.
Helped me buy clothes and my first computer which my Parents couldn't afford to buy me.

I think it would do a lot of people good to have to work to get things and stop the entitlement programs!
 
LOL
What about trade schools the kids are near the SAWS all the time at age 14.
And let me tell you a true story about a trade school my brother went to.
The STATE would announce when they would be showing up for inspections so all safety equipment would be put back on the Machines and the shop cleaned.
The minute the STATE left the building the safety guards came off the Machines and back to work like normal. All 14 through 18 year olds at that school.
So tell me how this is better than China?



If it's a safe job, I could understand. If it's something dangerous like working in a saw mill close to the actual saws, I'd leave that to the adults.

Doesn't Newt Gingrich think that current child labor laws in the US are stupid? I think I heard he wants kids to work as janitors in their schools to help bring in money for their families. But here's the rub: I hear he wants to fire the unionized janitors and replace them with kids, probably for lower pay. So to help families, he wants to make the father unemployed & have his kid replace him for less pay. Um, yeah. :rolleyes:


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If our US Laws are so great then why do all our Childhood Actors become druggies when they are 16 years of age and up?


I doubt China has more restrictive labor laws than the US gov't does.

Here's what the Department of Labor has to say on the matter:

"16 (years of age) - Basic minimum age for employment. Sixteen- and 17-year-olds may be employed for unlimited hours in any occupation other than those declared hazardous by the Secretary of Labor."

From this site: http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs43.htm

So, unless Apple (or China) has tighter rules than we do - this is a non-issue.

Let's read up on our laws before you publish!


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Yeah great idea!
You would be paying $10,000 for a MBA.


I wish there was an option to buy Apple products that were 100% made in America by Union labor. I would choose that option for sure.

I wish that every package in the US has to use at least 20% of it's size to show the flag of the country it was made in, as well as mark whether the workers were union or not. I guarantee that US, union labor would go WAY up as people could easily choose products that were made that way.
 
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Which would result in ZERO humans involved. What's the point?

You'd still have people involved. People to run the operation, run the robots, do a few tasks that can't be automated...

You would be paying $10,000 for a MBA.

That's ridiculous. If they bothered to improve the processes that they use to make these things, then the cost of labor would be a relatively small percentage of the overall cost, not just by using underpaid workers, but by using workers who are properly paid.

If you can't pay your workers $25/hr + benefits and still be profitable, your process has some bigtime issues.
 
iPhone girl is totally adorable.
She's one of ABC's best looking interns. Living in Orange County, attending UC Irvine & working part time for ABC, the chance to accept an all expense paid trip to her homeland with the ABC crew, was more than she could pass up.

After a few hours in hair & makeup, she looked authentic doing her part. As many times as her picture has been posted in this thread, proves that Apple, Disney & ABC are a successful, brilliant team. It was quite a pleasant show :)
 
Wow. Cry me a river.
When I was 16-17 I often worked in Apple orchards 14 hrs. a day.

Here in Amerika.

When I was 12 I was working summers in my friends Dad's pizzeria. When I was 15? I got working papers and worked in a loose leaf binder factory at Bush Terminal in Brooklyn that makes Foxconn look like Shangri-La.
 
If our US Laws are so great then why do all our Childhood Actors become druggies when they are 16 years of age and up?

This...this...I...it...uh...wuh? I've read this about 15 times now. Gone over it in my head word by word. Maybe I've gone dumb, but I can't make even the smallest bit of sense out of it. WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

If France is so well known for it's wines, then why did Bill run that guy over back in Saskatchewan?
 
LOL
What about trade schools the kids are near the SAWS all the time at age 14.
And let me tell you a true story about a trade school my brother went to.
The STATE would announce when they would be showing up for inspections so all safety equipment would be put back on the Machines and the shop cleaned.
The minute the STATE left the building the safety guards came off the Machines and back to work like normal. All 14 through 18 year olds at that school.

So tell me how this is better than China?
That's an easy question to answer... they speak English as their first language. :eek:
 
WOW. The peace sign pose, aka 'tokyo pose'... way to live up to the stereotype.

"Tokyo pose"? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Live up to what stereotype? I used to think by the quote in your signature that you were one of the rationalists. I'll need to re-evaluate what seems to have been a mistaken impression.
 
Why would foxconn WANT kids? they're slower, smaller, take longer, and have a longer learning curve. theres simply no reason to use child labor, not to mention all the negative press it would bring.
 
Underage according to whom? It's China. I would think that China is the relevant jurisdiction. Is 16 considered an underage worker in the part of China where the plant is located?

So provincial...

I keep saying... this new "transparency" policy that Apple is adopting is a bunch of bunk. Labor and environmental advocates will never be satisfied unless everyone is unemployed and living in caves. If Apple management thinks they will be rewarded for their "saintly" behavior, they are in for a big surprise. Labor advocates and environmentalists act like packs of hyenas or flocks of vultures. It's better never to indulge them through acts perceived as either positive or negative -- you'll just draw their attention and and end up being torn apart like offal.

Steve Jobs did it better. Let secrecy prevail, thereby allowing attention to be focused on your insanely great products. Everything else is a distraction.

This is exactly right. Also why I said this was doomed to fail from inception. The western hearts can't understand that our quality of life is so different.
 
Everything is a made-up concept by someone. I'd love to hear you make up a term to make it sound really wonderful.

Listening to their bosses? Certain # of hours? Wage falls below a certain level? Ad absurdum.

Wow, would it not be great if we could all be as righteous as ThunderSkunk? He must feel so good about himself, standing up for the dumb ignorant masses. He should go over to China and start a revolution. Nothing big, just start out by organizing a group to sit out in front of the factory on their asses. Maybe convince them to quite their job in protest. SHAME ON FOXCONN!
 
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