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I wish there was an option to buy Apple products that were 100% made in America by Union labor. I would choose that option for sure.

I wish that every package in the US has to use at least 20% of it's size to show the flag of the country it was made in, as well as mark whether the workers were union or not. I guarantee that US, union labor would go WAY up as people could easily choose products that were made that way.

The thing that was clear last night, particularly from the detail that, although the chips are machine-made, the iPhone itself is the product of about 300 -- I forget exactly -- sets of hands, young eyesight and endless repetition, that's where they have us for the moment. Bring it back here and you'd have to invest in some serious robotic production, because there's no way they could afford the masses of young workers in America, even if they paid minimum wage. They'd have a much quieter factory floor and a few dozen workers to stop the line or do a finishing detail or inspection-- not the thousands and thousands of workers. American workers, in fact, are far more productive when used that way. But why do it, our bosses say, when we don't have to invest in China; these kids are incredibly disciplined, and Chinese society keeps them quiet.

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If they are out of the legally required school levels sure. And they aren't allowed to work OT which means they aren't doing crazy hours, which is a good thing

My first summer job was on the production line at Armstrong Cork making linoleum, for $1.40 an hour. But of course, that was in 1910! Er, 1961. I was 16.

And I worked the next three summers at a Coca-cola bottling plant, and made enough to pay my way through college.

That's what you can do when an economy is firing on all cylinders.
 
Underage?

What I don't get is people getting all bent out of shape over 16 year olds working in a phone factory, but then those same people pull into McDonalds and get coffee or let those same 16 year olds put them on an amusement park ride without batting an eye.


Thomas
 
What I don't get is people getting all bent out of shape over 16 year olds working in a phone factory, but then those same people pull into McDonalds and get coffee or let those same 16 year olds put them on an amusement park ride without batting an eye.


Thomas

14 hour a day slave labour at 16 is a bit different Thomas than the girl serving coffee at mcds or in the amusement park.... You are comparing oranges to apples.;)
 
After watching the short segment I am totally impressed with Foxconn now. (and the Chinese). To see them achieve such precision in their products mostly by hand. Holy crap. :eek:

I don't think our young people here in the U.S. would have the stamina or standards to do this.
 
This argument drives me nuts. If the person was living in your country or my country, yes, $1.78 an hour would be inhumane. But guess what? THEY'RE NOT LIVING IN OUR COUNTRY! Do you have any idea what the cost of living is in China (or many other Asian countries for that matter)? Here's a clue. Eleven of us had a very nice two course + drinks breakfast at a little roadside restaurant for under $7 - not each, TOTAL. In Vietnam - where costs are very similar to China - many people earning VND5,000,000 ($250) a month still have plasma TV's in their homes! In Malaysia RM1000 a month (about $350) is a reasonable wage for an intern. IT'S ALL RELATIVE!!!

Question: If a young person with the necessary school qualifications and zero savings wants to go to university for four years to become a lawyer, without having to take a job in those four years so they can concentrate completely on their studies, and that person wants to finish without any debt: How long would that person have to work at Foxconn, if they save as much money as they can? If that person were in the USA, what job would they take and how long would they have to work there?
 
Good for you guys, but child labor isn't a contest to see who has the biggest c**k.

I'd rather see people at that age full-time in a classroom so that their future has a chance to be better. They have the rest of their lives to be a cog in the machine if they so choose.


Yes I feel all warm and fuzzy inside when an ignorant generation forgets the past and returns to it.

Yeah, the good ol' days...

:rolleyes:

We aren't talking coal mines at all. We are talking some unskilled labor that a child that wants to, and whose parents support it, can work at after hours or during long vacations. I had my job over the summer, and again, I learned a lot that many in this generation aren't. Like . . . . how to go to work and follow directions, something much of western society takes for granted.

If it's a safe job, I could understand. If it's something dangerous like working in a saw mill close to the actual saws, I'd leave that to the adults.

Doesn't Newt Gingrich think that current child labor laws in the US are stupid? I think I heard he wants kids to work as janitors in their schools to help bring in money for their families. But here's the rub: I hear he wants to fire the unionized janitors and replace them with kids, probably for lower pay. So to help families, he wants to make the father unemployed & have his kid replace him for less pay. Um, yeah. :rolleyes:

Agreed, and I don't think anyone would hire a child to do a dangerous job like working in a saw mill. We don't have anymore industrial jobs in Baltimore so there won't be any of that. Children won't be working near all of the pharmaceutical companies either. We are talking stocking shelves and maybe (like Eidorian said) some desk work and IT things.

I have a few high schoolers trying to get jobs at my university as lab techs. We hire some, and they eventually attend the school in our department. Again, keeping kids off the streets and out of trouble in the inner city.

Now, I am against removing any child labor laws. I wasn't going to get a job at 14 because even in Maryland you need to have a state ID and can't work anything more than 15 hours a week during the school year.
 
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crisss1205 said:
HA I love it (a nice "slushi" sounds good right now, is it 5 o'clock yet? It is in London!)

When I was in my 20's living in NYC, I worked at Crobar bartending 5 nights a week, 9pm-6am, then had classes at Columbia from 8~4 pm, slept a bit, gym, then back to work. 5 days a week. 'Course I was making mad money, some night $1k around 2003-2005, but man I couldn't do that now.

What is the legal age for working? Is it federal or state mandated?
I believe it is state mandated, I know in New York to work in a factory you have to be at least 16 years old. Almost any other job it is 14.

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Wikipedia says between 250,000 and 300,000 workers at Foxconn in China-not one million so YOU have your numbers way off- and to say compared to US workers they are doing fine is ridiculous-they live like ants in cramped rooms-work like slaves at menial jobs and do not have all the benefits we have. To say I do not know how capitalism works is wrong-it's that Capitalism works wrong in my opinion. The workers should own that factory and split to money!

Um, Wikipedia says 920,000+

Reading. So overrated.
 
1. it's $1.78 an hour

2. Their food and rent if they are living at the factory is like $3 a day so even without OT they have about $10 a day of spare money.

your nick reminded me that canned tuna has a much better fate until it's canned roaming free in the ocean unlike these canned kids in these factories... I think it's better for all of us in the west to just be silent and enjoy our shinny toys without rationalizing how "good" these kids have it and how much "spare money" they have. It's respectful to the people working like slaves to create them.
 
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BiggAW said:
I wish there was an option to buy Apple products that were 100% made in America by Union labor. I would choose that option for sure.

I wish that every package in the US has to use at least 20% of it's size to show the flag of the country it was made in, as well as mark whether the workers were union or not. I guarantee that US, union labor would go WAY up as people could easily choose products that were made that way.

According to the report each iPad has roughly 18 hours of labor in it. Just what do you think your union buddies are willing to accept for 18 man hours of work? Would you buy an iPad for $1200?
 
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blow45 said:
What I don't get is people getting all bent out of shape over 16 year olds working in a phone factory, but then those same people pull into McDonalds and get coffee or let those same 16 year olds put them on an amusement park ride without batting an eye.


Thomas

14 hour a day slave labour at 16 is a bit different Thomas than the girl serving coffee at mcds or in the amusement park.... You are comparing oranges to apples.;)

I don't think you know what that word (slave) means. Look it up.
 
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I don't think you know what that word (slave) means. Look it up.

I 've done my looking up on these types of social issues, long time before looking up on the internet became a fad, thank you very much. But it might serve you well to look up the words hypocrisy, guilt and rationalization.
 
I 've done my looking up on these types of social issues, long time before looking up on the internet became a fad, thank you very much. But it might serve you well to look up the words hypocrisy, guilt and rationalization.

Sounds like you need an update.
 
As far as living two dozen to a room, I always found that amusing since we lived in quonset huts like that in the Army when lucky enough to be on base in Korea. (Don't even get me started on the conditions in the field.)

Many of the conditions US military live in every day, are considered inhumane for civilians (who are free to quit and leave their job) or even prisoners (who at least have three hot meals and TV).
 
your nick reminded me that canned tuna has a much better fate until it's canned roaming free in the ocean unlike these canned kids in these factories... I think it's better for all of us in the west to just be silent and enjoy our shinny toys without rationalizing how "good" these kids have it and how much "spare money" they have. It's respectful to the people working like slaves to create them.

The real thing to consider is the cost of living. Even from state to state in the USA the cost of living can be drastically different. Families living on the Eastern Shore of Maryland make more money, but the cost of living is higher that Baltimore City.

San Francisco has a very high cost of living compared to the rest of the nation. The average 1 bed room apartment is $1500 a month in some places. While Baltimore's would be around $800 a month for the same space.

In other words, people in other countries live on a lot less than people in the west.

According to the report each iPad has roughly 18 hours of labor in it. Just what do you think your union buddies are willing to accept for 18 man hours of work? Would you buy an iPad for $1200?

Exactly! I know no one in the US could live off of $5 an hour . . . let alone $1.78.
 
I don't think you know what that word (slave) means. Look it up.


He means wage slavery. Not chattel slavery, or even indentured servitude. Still valid.

There's more than one type of slavery.


...I worked full time in a rural aluminum plant at 14. OSHA reps were paid off at the door. You couldn't see across the place with all the aluminum dust in the air, and everyone coughed black and there were as many missing fingers as there were employees, everyone had acid burns from the dripping hooks whizzing past at head height with zero safety precautions. We all ran everywhere we went all day long and injuries were a given. Any losses incurred came out of your paycheck. One sunday afternoon, luckily while no one was there, the facility exploded in a flash when a huge pile of aluminum powder spontaneously exploded, because it was damp and no one followed any hazmat guidelines. The farthest piece of machinery was a big lathe found in a farmers field nearly three miles away.

In retrospect, everyone should experience such a work environment. I guarantee it'd cut down on the zero-regulation utopian fantasy so popular among politicians these days.
 
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He means wage slavery. Not chattel slavery, or even indentured servitude. Still valid.

There's more than one type of slavery.

Except "wage slavery" is a made-up concept to make it sound really bad.

Lots of people have to listen to their bosses -- do you become a "wage slave" after a certain number of hours, or when your wage falls below a certain level?
 
Foxconn Accused of Hiding Underage Workers During Audits

Underage according to whom? It's China. I would think that China is the relevant jurisdiction. Is 16 considered an underage worker in the part of China where the plant is located?

So provincial...

I keep saying... this new "transparency" policy that Apple is adopting is a bunch of bunk. Labor and environmental advocates will never be satisfied unless everyone is unemployed and living in caves. If Apple management thinks they will be rewarded for their "saintly" behavior, they are in for a big surprise. Labor advocates and environmentalists act like packs of hyenas or flocks of vultures. It's better never to indulge them through acts perceived as either positive or negative -- you'll just draw their attention and and end up being torn apart like offal.

Steve Jobs did it better. Let secrecy prevail, thereby allowing attention to be focused on your insanely great products. Everything else is a distraction.
 
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Except "wage slavery" is a made-up concept to make it sound really bad.

Lots of people have to listen to their bosses -- do you become a "wage slave" after a certain number of hours, or when your wage falls below a certain level?


Everything is a made-up concept by someone. I'd love to hear you make up a term to make it sound really wonderful.

Listening to their bosses? Certain # of hours? Wage falls below a certain level? Ad absurdum.
 
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