Well isn't that just the like the world we live in. A bunch of liberal do gooders sticking their noses where they don't belong. Who gets hurt in the end? Those who they claim to represent. If they want to 100 hours of overtime a month, who cares? Let them work it.
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Foxconn Workers Express Concern Over Reduced Overtime
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No, I'm pretty sure they'd just like to set themselves up for retirement. If they work overtime now, they'll be able to afford to retire later. Or send their kids to school. Or send themselves to school. They'd actually like to be prepared for the future.
Daddy, daddy, I heard every time a protestor shouts about a complex issue with a silly slogan, an angel gets its wings!
Wirelessly posted
Well then they should live on $300 a month and save the other $300
ArtOfWarfare said:
Well then they should live on $300 a month and save the other $300
You may want to learn a little more about other cultures before making blanket statements.
A lot of workers in China come from the rural areas where there are not as many jobs. They work at these manufacturing plants because they don't have the necessary skill sets for "professional" jobs. The majority of their money is sent home to their family so they can survive.
Indeed. They don't need it to survive, they need it for their FAMILIES to survive. They're making more money than they'd know what to do with if it was just for themselves.
Ha! Take that you do gooders!
They actually like their crappy working conditions. Leave them alone.
They actually like their crappy working conditions. Leave them alone.
There are certain practices that should be universally condemned, and they include child labor and dangerous working conditions. However, voluntary overtime hours should, in my view, not be limited, because they are exactly what they say they are: voluntary.
Also, the nominal per capita gross income in china is $355. So when comparing a $634 wage per month to what other people make in China, this is like making $84,360 per year in the United States. In my view, the FLA is focusing on the wrong company here. How about investigate the garment industry. They'd have a field day with that.
Also, the nominal per capita gross income in china is $355. So when comparing a $634 wage per month to what other people make in China, this is like making $84,360 per year in the United States. In my view, the FLA is focusing on the wrong company here. How about investigate the garment industry. They'd have a field day with that.
I have to say I was pleasantly surprised when I saw this story making the rounds. Nice to see more focus on trying to understand what the workers want and not just focusing on singular bombastic accounts for the sole purpose of enriching someone off the backs of the workers (sound familiar?). Hopefully, what is best for the workers (whatever compromise that is) comes out of this.
Wirelessly posted
Okay seriously? This is getting a little out of hand. Maybe they'd also like a free Segway to roam around the factory, maybe free iPads, or worse, safer protection gear?
Their vigilant bickering and money-grubbing better not end up increasing the price of my next The New iPhone.
/s
Okay seriously? This is getting a little out of hand. Maybe they'd also like a free Segway to roam around the factory, maybe free iPads, or worse, safer protection gear?
Their vigilant bickering and money-grubbing better not end up increasing the price of my next The New iPhone.
/s
It's called economic slavery. We had it in this country too once. Well, and sadly are heading back that way pretty quickly too.
Here everyone is griping about a western group recommending Foxconn reduce their workers OT hours...
You complainers do realize that doesn't necessarily translate to less pay right?
In the original article, it clearly stated part of the group's recommendation was to increase compensation, and decrease OT hours.
It was also stated that they will be hiring on MORE WORKERS to fill in the man hours void. That means more jobs will be created, helping more people and families.
Obviously I'm not saying that Foxconn will adhere to these recommendations or make good on any promises they make, but let's examine the entire picture before we get up in arms about how terrible western society is.
You complainers do realize that doesn't necessarily translate to less pay right?
In the original article, it clearly stated part of the group's recommendation was to increase compensation, and decrease OT hours.
It was also stated that they will be hiring on MORE WORKERS to fill in the man hours void. That means more jobs will be created, helping more people and families.
Obviously I'm not saying that Foxconn will adhere to these recommendations or make good on any promises they make, but let's examine the entire picture before we get up in arms about how terrible western society is.
A) The FLA already audits garment manufacturers.
B) Apple paid the FLA to do this audit. Apple paid FLA to focus on Foxconn.
Wirelessly posted
Excuse me, but do any of you run Apple? No. Apple is housed in a Capitilist economy, let them do what they wish. Even if it means forcing human rights onto people who resent them. 60 hours a week, that's 12 hours of work each weekday. They also have to eat, drink, go to the bathroom & etc. 60 hours is not healthy. It's not because of the "Western World" that I say this, it's because of my human morals. And science. People need to be healthy.
Excuse me, but do any of you run Apple? No. Apple is housed in a Capitilist economy, let them do what they wish. Even if it means forcing human rights onto people who resent them. 60 hours a week, that's 12 hours of work each weekday. They also have to eat, drink, go to the bathroom & etc. 60 hours is not healthy. It's not because of the "Western World" that I say this, it's because of my human morals. And science. People need to be healthy.
You're right. It's not really FLA's fault. It's more the media's fault in not putting this into perspective. Although, I also think, that the FLA could have put this into perspective, so the media wouldn't have to research it.
You need to lay off the ignorant juice for a bit. Even in developed countries like the US there are people working three jobs and 80 hours a week. The difference? You don't get overtime when you split you time among 3 employers. Or how about the college student that works two ort time jobs to pay for school. I suppose they are living above their means too? Maybe their "means" is putting their baby sister through more education, I suppose you think they should stop that are only work as much as they need in order to support themselves?
And this whole time you're thinking only low income jobs, right? Salaried employees in the states often out in over 40 hours. The most recently famous caree to do this is software engineers. Or take doctors. My dad is one of the lower paid doctors and routinely puts in 50 hours a week. I've got an idea! Let's go back in time and force Steve Jobs to go home after 40 hours
If a person wants to work more, for whatever reason, and they are still producing quality work and aren't burning themselves out, I say let them. I don't think they should be forced to work more, mind you, but be allowed to? Of course!
The unfortunate reality of global trade is, you rely upon countries with cheap labor for manufacturing, and educated, high dollar labor for design and R&D. If we try to create parity we actually end up hurting the developing nation by removing their competitive advantage ie. labor costs.
What a lot of people are missing when they convert Chinese Salaries to American Dollars or Euro's is to adjust for cost of living. It's almost like comparing 1950's wages with today's wages without adjusting for inflation.
What a lot of people are missing when they convert Chinese Salaries to American Dollars or Euro's is to adjust for cost of living. It's almost like comparing 1950's wages with today's wages without adjusting for inflation.
I bet some people have been doing their maths like this: I want to become a lawyer. It takes X dollars to pay for university, books, and living costs to become a lawyer, and x dollars for two months holiday in the Chinese countryside. My parents have nothing, banks won't lend money. So I go to Foxconn, do as much overtime as possible, sleep in a dorm for next to nothing, and save Y dollars every months. After (X + x) / Y months, I quit, have two months holiday, go to university, become a lawyer and become rich.
And now someone wants to stop me from getting overtime.
"compensation" could be many things. More pay, health benefits, paid holidays, sick leave, vacation leave, long lunches, etc. Decreasing how much OT you hand out under the guise of "increasing compensation" may not equal more money in the workers pocket.
The bottom line is, no one wants to make less money. Especially a corporation. Whether its here or in China, it's rare to see a company make a change that does not increase the profit margin.
Starting yesterday, I'm seeing headlines on news sites saying or implying that Apple has "finally" agreed to address its China problems, thanks to the FLA. Completely glossing over the facts:
- Apple was already working on--and accurately, honestly reporting to the world--these problems. For years. Long before recent smear campaigns.
- The FLA came in at Apple's own request, which no other company has done.
- These are not Apple-specific problems, and Apple isn't the worst; they're probably the best, and yet other, worse tech companies get a free pass from the media. Where did the recent suicide story about Foxconn Microsoft workers go? Where's the investigation of how other phones are made? Buried, neglected or forgotten by "journalists," because the truth doesn't sell as many ads.
- Apple was already working on--and accurately, honestly reporting to the world--these problems. For years. Long before recent smear campaigns.
- The FLA came in at Apple's own request, which no other company has done.
- These are not Apple-specific problems, and Apple isn't the worst; they're probably the best, and yet other, worse tech companies get a free pass from the media. Where did the recent suicide story about Foxconn Microsoft workers go? Where's the investigation of how other phones are made? Buried, neglected or forgotten by "journalists," because the truth doesn't sell as many ads.
The first article specifically stated increased pay to make up for less OT hours.
And not to nitpick, but I would describe those things you mentioned as "benefits" and not compensation. Compensation is what you are given in exchange for the work you do...benefits are just that, benefits.
It's just the same old standard guilty American practice. Bitch and moan and put pressure on sweatshops until they close down. Have a big party with lots of chardonnay while you pat yourselves on the back. When stories come out a few years later about the 12 year olds who lost their jobs and are now working as HIV positive prostitutes, just shrug your shoulders and pretend that's not your fault.