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Foxconn Workers Express Concern Over Reduced Overtime
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Legal Limit
From what I've read about this report, the 36 hour overtime limit is imposed by the Chinese government, not the FLA. So shouldn't they take the issue up with the regulators & gov't, and not the FLA for catching Foxcon? (Not that they would probably get anywhere with the gov't, but I don't think this is the FLA's fault.)
From what I've read about this report, the 36 hour overtime limit is imposed by the Chinese government, not the FLA. So shouldn't they take the issue up with the regulators & gov't, and not the FLA for catching Foxcon? (Not that they would probably get anywhere with the gov't, but I don't think this is the FLA's fault.)
Let them work.
If somebody wants to work, why not let them do it. It shouldn't be up to us to impose our standards on someone living in another country. We also seem to forget these are some of the most sought after jobs in China, there are much worse jobs paying a lot less but we don't seem to hear any fuss about this because Apple is not involved.
Personally I think we have a lot to learn from the work ethics of the rest of the world.
If somebody wants to work, why not let them do it. It shouldn't be up to us to impose our standards on someone living in another country. We also seem to forget these are some of the most sought after jobs in China, there are much worse jobs paying a lot less but we don't seem to hear any fuss about this because Apple is not involved.
Personally I think we have a lot to learn from the work ethics of the rest of the world.
Wow, so they make $634 a month when working 60 hours of OT a month. If their normal work hours are 40 hours a week. That equals 220 hours a month of actual time worked. So they make less than $3 an hour?
In a country where your hairdresser makes less than $3 an hour. And the people making clothes for you make less than $3 an hour. And a piano teacher makes less than $3 an hour. And so on. Actually, they all make a lot less than $3 an hour. It's not that long ago that your parents or grandparents made $3 an hour. I bet there are people here who made less than $3 an hour at some point in their life and considered it a good salary.
Wow, so they make $634 a month when working 60 hours of OT a month. If their normal work hours are 40 hours a week. That equals 220 hours a month of actual time worked. So they make less than $3 an hour?
You cannt apply U.S. earnings to China. Why? Because...
1) Living costs are lower in China,
2) They likely pay no income tax,
3) Food/housing is subsidized in a factory town like what Foxconn run.
Is the living standard lower than the U.S.? Obviously. But that does not mean their salary is bad by Chinese standards (it is actually pretty decent despite how much they work) or by standards of $3 an hour in the U.S.. A recent college graduate in China may take home 20k RMB a year. and these are people with no degrees.
How about "don't" then. It's none of your business how long someone else works if it's their choice.
Can you show me a report where Apple say on average workers work an illegal number of hours? Not some but on average.
Companies founded the FLA so the second part seems unlikely to be true.
Yes, by all means go move to China and work at Foxconn for $634 a month
You are so noble.
give me a break.
Just shows that this whole controversy and investigation etc. was never about what the Chinese workers wanted, it was always about Americans feeling guilty. What do we think that these people are going to do with their extra time? Walk their golden retrievers down to Starbucks?
Hmmmm... crazy stuff
I know they travel there just for that - work and earn money, but 60 hours of overtime? Assume you have one day off and overtime is on top of a 40 hour that's 100 hours/6 days = 16 hours 40 minutes each day of work!
Take extra hour and half for breakfast, lunch, dinner, toilet, it adds up to 18 hours 10 minutes...
20 minutes each way to walk from the dorm to the factory so you got 18 hour 50 minutes.
Okay, give them 1 minute each day for lovemaking and 9 minutes for raving to your family and friends about how happy you are to be working for Foxconn.... so we end up with 19 hours of work and necessary daily routine.
With just 5 hours for sleep I would probably decide to jump off a roof or something!
I know they travel there just for that - work and earn money, but 60 hours of overtime? Assume you have one day off and overtime is on top of a 40 hour that's 100 hours/6 days = 16 hours 40 minutes each day of work!
Take extra hour and half for breakfast, lunch, dinner, toilet, it adds up to 18 hours 10 minutes...
20 minutes each way to walk from the dorm to the factory so you got 18 hour 50 minutes.
Okay, give them 1 minute each day for lovemaking and 9 minutes for raving to your family and friends about how happy you are to be working for Foxconn.... so we end up with 19 hours of work and necessary daily routine.
With just 5 hours for sleep I would probably decide to jump off a roof or something!
Once again we Americans go in and **** up someone else's lives in another country because of our righteous ways.
Can you imagine American wages in all of Asia? Yeah, that'd put a LOT of businesses out.
Why else do you think everything is made in China these days? Better labour, cheaper salaries. You'd think any American would shovel snow for the prices they get paid here in Asia? Hell no. We Americans are too awesome to be doing any of that crap work. Rather sit on my couch and play games on a device that someone slaved over to make a living.
Meanwhile them Chinese remain lean as we get ever fatter arses. Ehm, asses.
Can you imagine American wages in all of Asia? Yeah, that'd put a LOT of businesses out.
Why else do you think everything is made in China these days? Better labour, cheaper salaries. You'd think any American would shovel snow for the prices they get paid here in Asia? Hell no. We Americans are too awesome to be doing any of that crap work. Rather sit on my couch and play games on a device that someone slaved over to make a living.
Meanwhile them Chinese remain lean as we get ever fatter arses. Ehm, asses.
His point was that wanting to work and not accepting handouts is an american value that has been stomped on quite a bit for the past 100 years... China has that value more than we do these days.
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It's 60 hours per month ... not week. So 15 hours of OT a week. Not that big of a deal, if you asked me.
When I'm on travel (away from home), I perfer to put in more hours. Otherwise, I'm just pissing the time away on the 'net in the hotel.
TRUST me. Not everyone in China is like that. They have more than their fair share of deadbeats, just like us.
1. As a business owner, if I need to be paying multiple employees to work 30-60 hours of OT regularly, then I clearly need to hire more employees. The cost of paying employees OT is greater than the $ they net.
2. If I were utilizing unskilled labor, adding new hires would be far far less costly than OT.
3. If Foxconn can't pay a higher wage and stay profitable without breaking Chinas glorious labor laws, then that's as good as the system they've built gets.
4. I don't know of any unskilled workers that make enough to support entire adult families with their wages.
Welcome to the developed world, China.
2. If I were utilizing unskilled labor, adding new hires would be far far less costly than OT.
3. If Foxconn can't pay a higher wage and stay profitable without breaking Chinas glorious labor laws, then that's as good as the system they've built gets.
4. I don't know of any unskilled workers that make enough to support entire adult families with their wages.
Welcome to the developed world, China.
We are only screwing with the business practices in China is HOPES that their production will fall below ours. America is the land of fatties. If those Chinks keep it up, we will never surpass them in production and they'll definitely kick our ass in WorldWar3.
Good luck in getting their production down. It won't happen. Look at Global Warming -- America refuses to cut production to reduce emissions; China refuses to cut production to reduce emissions. Whoever does first takes a nice economical disadvantage. Only Europe was intent on reducing emissions and look at the economic turd they're in now.
49 hours per week! I wish I could reduce my work week down to 49 hours and get the same pay. Those people are not working a ton of hours. Give me a break. The crazy liberals at FLA need to stay out of it and let the free market dictate how many hours they can work.
Wirelessly posted
Of course benefits are salary! There is a cash equivalent to benefits (which is why many are taxed). Companies use benefits to make employment there more attractive, pulling in better workers. If health insurance on the open market is $10k, and a company pays for it, how is that benefit not worth $10k?
Peyote said:
Of course benefits are salary! There is a cash equivalent to benefits (which is why many are taxed). Companies use benefits to make employment there more attractive, pulling in better workers. If health insurance on the open market is $10k, and a company pays for it, how is that benefit not worth $10k?
Might I suggest you read the FLA report more closely (not to mention Apple paid quite a bit of money for that report so the least you could do is read it).
I don't think the focus is forcing workers to get paid less.
Interesting how wages here in Thailand are similar to those in China, yet you'll see more people with iPads and iPhones. I just don't get it. How do they do it??
You need to lay off the ignorant juice for a bit. Even in developed countries like the US there are people working three jobs and 80 hours a week. The difference? You don't get overtime when you split you time among 3 employers. Or how about the college student that works two ort time jobs to pay for school. I suppose they are living above their means too? Maybe their "means" is putting their baby sister through more education, I suppose you think they should stop that are only work as much as they need in order to support themselves?
And this whole time you're thinking only low income jobs, right? Salaried employees in the states often out in over 40 hours. The most recently famous caree to do this is software engineers. Or take doctors. My dad is one of the lower paid doctors and routinely puts in 50 hours a week. I've got an idea! Let's go back in time and force Steve Jobs to go home after 40 hours
If a person wants to work more, for whatever reason, and they are still producing quality work and aren't burning themselves out, I say let them. I don't think they should be forced to work more, mind you, but be allowed to? Of course!
WELL DONE. you hit the nail on the head. workers should not be FORCED but ALLOWED to work overtime and as that young lady stated she feels FOXCONN factories are much safer than small factories and they most important thing i got from the statement is that SHE WANTS to work overtime.
foxconn cater to the mass no the minority of haterz
This needs to be repeated. It's not the labor costs that make China so appealing. It's the ability to organize mid level engineers quickly, and have the plants that make the other parts so close by.
Need a different screw for your product? Go next door to the company that makes screws. They'll have a new one designed for you in 6 hours and a million of them made by next day.
It's about their large numbers of qualified trained people and their set up infrastructures for manufacturing. The labor cost? Pfft, doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.
Wow, so they make $634 a month when working 60 hours of OT a month. If their normal work hours are 40 hours a week. That equals 220 hours a month of actual time worked. So they make less than $3 an hour?
Without factoring in living expenses, such calculations are completely meaningless. Many countries have higher average wages than others (US included), but that can in many cases be off set by much higher living costs.
Now I'm not saying the Chinese cost of living is non existant or they are doing it easy. To be honest I haven't looked at the figures. On it's own though one can't assume that X amount of dollars an hour is good or bad just because a straight currency conversion has someone on the other side of the world receiving a higher dollar rate per an hour.
Anyway, I'm glad to see this article. For a while now the media has seemingly become obsessed with comparing the working conditions there to local ones, and frankly I was never that comfortable with the comparison. I won't say there are no issues, but it's not as black and white as the issue is often portrayed, nor are western and eastern ways of being always compatible.
A bit off topic, but it reminds me of the reaction to the suicides over the past year which while tragic, were at a rate quite a bit under the local average (based on the statistics I saw), something which seemed to get overlooked more often than not in the press.
Unfortunately the picture looks quite different depending where in the world you are standing, and that's often missed.
Well no, but how many people in first world countries make money that sustains both their parents and their grand parents? The trends here appear to me that both husband and wife tend to work just to support themselves and their children. I doubt too many people are paying all of their parents and grandparents expenses. Again, it's a difference in the way different societies live.