French Consumer Fraud Group Investigating Apple for 'Alleged Deception' and 'Planned Obsolescence'

[bunnicula]

If it wasn't for US carrier contracts, iPhone would have never happened
If it wasn't for AT&T, iPhone would have never happened

That said, I don't see your point. Are you saying you buy your electronics expecting them to function properly for the duration of the warranty? Your expectations are so low, you are the ideal customer

I bought the first iPhone in 2007 and paid cash, just like everyone else.

I got some subsidized ones and upgraded yearly. This was back when AT&T allowed it. That stopped at the iPhone 5, and 5s and after I bought cash. I upgrade yearly. I like upgrading yearly.

That probably makes me an ideal consumer to Apple, but it has just been my preference for the past 10 years.

I sell my phones, usually. They work just fine for the people who buy them and I purchase AC+, so they have a year using a pristine phone they bought at a deep discount and can get replaced by Apple if there are problems. Win-win.

 

[OllyW]

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[Phonephreak]

Mobile devices this complicated and this size are also pretty new. Thermal throttling was also new at one point. Older processors before the Pentium 4 used to just burn up when they got too hot. They had no method of throttling themselves to prevent overheating. They don't anymore... most technically minded people actually consider that a feature and not something negative.

You're also omitting the point that the alternative to this would be have a phone that's constantly reboot (Wow! My phone is just as fast as new but completely useless! This is great!).

This isn't a widespread issue either... it's limited to phones that have a worn out battery. So if you had an option between your phone rebooting and your phone working slower, you would choose rebooting?

I hope Apple adds an option in there for ya to keep your phone rebooting (but really fast, like it should!!).

What about when the phone is throttled but has never shutdown on its own.
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I think the right word is more like "credibility". I trust they are not going to purposefully break my purchase, ala, "planned obsolescence". But they may not be as credible as they were before.

Re: opinions, yes everybody can have their opinions, there is room for all reasonable opinions.

Ok then Apple has lost a large amount of credibility. How the respond will determine if that is returned

 

[aevan]

Everyone likes options. We like options. Why wouldn't anyone like options? It's after all, our device.

If your battery has degraded, Apple is currently giving you two options: have a phone that throttles under load or replace the battery.

Phone shutting down should never be an option. Even Android wouldn’t have something like this. No manufacturer would.

 

[Phonephreak]

Phone shutting down should never be an option. Even Android wouldn’t have something like this. No manufacturer would.

So there is a problem with battery’s. Then Apple should recall them. Simple.

 

[aevan]

So there is a problem with battery’s. Then Apple should recall them. Simple.

What problem? Every battery degrades with time. Are we going to go over all this again?

 

[Phonephreak]

What problem? Every battery degrades with time. Are we going to go over all this again?

Ok so then there is a hardware flaw with the phone.

Every other lithium battery I have used. I use them almost daily in my rc hobby. The battery works fine, just shorter run times until it won’t hold any sort of real charge. Then I buy a new one. These battery’s last for at least a thousand charges before I need to replace them.

Update. Upon thinking about it. More like 600 cycles. I tend to get 2 years before the start to really degrade.

 

[I7guy]

Ok so then there is a hardware flaw with the phone.

Every other lithium battery I have used. I use them almost daily in my rc hobby. The battery works fine, just shorter run times until it won’t hold any sort of real charge. Then I buy a new one. These battery’s last for at least a thousand charges before I need to replace them.

Update. Upon thinking about it. More like 600 cycles. I tend to get 2 years before the start to really degrade.

No battery degradation. If you leave your iPhone in the sun everyday and kill the battery your going to say it’s a hardware flaw or bad battery?

 

[Phonephreak]

No battery degradation. If you leave your iPhone in the sun everyday and kill the battery your going to say it’s a hardware flaw or bad battery?

Not sure what your saying

The battery’s degrade. That’s a given. But they provide the proper voltage until they cannot then they turn off the rc car. The car runs normally until the battery dies. No reduction in performance. The sensible thing to do is replace the battery. Not hide this with throttling anpeformance decreases.

No idea where the sun comes into this. Far more likely the battery’s used for the 6,6s,and maybe 7 are defective. The fact that the chips are amazingly fast means nothing of the battery can’t provide enough juice to use it.

That’s not how lithium battery’s work. That’s the big deal about them. The old metal hydride battery’s would have that performance drop as soon as they started to be used. Half way thru a battery pack car would start slowing down.

 

[Fiachers]

Then buy one from the many companies that make them... because its so easy. Or start a company to benefit humanity by manufacturing the things yourself. Not complicated indeed...

Yeah, this is the usual response that's thrown out here constantly. "Just go somewhere else, na na na na naaa", i.e. "just shut up, you have no right to complain" etc.

 

[aevan]

Yeah, this is the usual response that's thrown out here constantly. "Just go somewhere else, na na na na naaa", i.e. "just shut up, you have no right to complain" etc.

No, but the truth is no one here is a battery engineer. People compare iPhones to Nokias, cars or even RC cars, for f sake.

Just because a battery works one way in one device, doesn’t mean it applies to every device.

You do have a right to complain. But at the same time, some people see this as some kind of proof that Apple is doing this planned obsolescence thing. Like they intentionally designed the phone to become worse after some time, instead of it being a consequence of the design goals they set. I believe they did not intentionally design the iPhone so you have to replace it after a year or two, so I’m voicing my opinion.

Also, I think 2 years of normal operation I had, then one battery replacement good enough for the next 2 years is fine. I don’t see it as “faulty”.

 

[Bigg Macc]

Good for them to recognize the fraud that Apple is.

 

[I7guy]

Not sure what your saying

The battery’s degrade. That’s a given. But they provide the proper voltage until they cannot then they turn off the rc car. The car runs normally until the battery dies. No reduction in performance. The sensible thing to do is replace the battery. Not hide this with throttling anpeformance decreases.

No idea where the sun comes into this. Far more likely the battery’s used for the 6,6s,and maybe 7 are defective. The fact that the chips are amazingly fast means nothing of the battery can’t provide enough juice to use it.

That’s not how lithium battery’s work. That’s the big deal about them. The old metal hydride battery’s would have that performance drop as soon as they started to be used. Half way thru a battery pack car would start slowing down.

Not sure of what you are saying. When batteries degrade they seemingly can’t provide enough power to the devices. My old laptop with windows knows this and gracefully shuts down the computer. My iPhone now knows this as well as throttles the cpu. My windows 10 laptop actually has a setting to throttle the cpu, which is maybe what Apple should have done. But that is neither here nor there to the discussion.

If a battery degraded due to abuse or age the phone won’t just shutdown. (And an rc car application is way different than a mobile phone application)

 

[aevan]

Good for them to recognize the fraud that Apple is.

Good that you already know how Apple is a fraud. Heck, they don’t even need an investigation, they could just ask you.

 

[Bigg Macc]

Good that you already know how Apple is a fraud. Heck, they don’t even need an investigation, they could just ask you.

And you already know Apple is innocent.

 

[deferredAnon]

And you already know Apple is innocent.

I blame Apple. They betrayed their loyal fans.

 

[Phonephreak]

Not sure of what you are saying. When batteries degrade they seemingly can’t provide enough power to the devices. My old laptop with windows knows this and gracefully shuts down the computer. My iPhone now knows this as well as throttles the cpu. My windows 10 laptop actually has a setting to throttle the cpu, which is maybe what Apple should have done. But that is neither here nor there to the discussion.

If a battery degraded due to abuse or age the phone won’t just shutdown. (And an rc car application is way different than a mobile phone application)

How is it different? Voltage is voltage right? Either the battery provides the stated voltage or it doesn’t.

 

[I7guy]

How is it different? Voltage is voltage right? Either the battery provides the stated voltage or it doesn’t.

You’re trying to say that because an rc car and phone use lithium batteries their circuit design is identical?

 

[Phonephreak]

You’re trying to say that because an rc car and phone use lithium batteries their circuit design is identical?

I’m not saying they are identical. But still The battery should supply the stated power continuously until it is depleted. Their shouldn’t be voltage drops in a lithium battery until it is draining almost entirely.
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No, but the truth is no one here is a battery engineer. People compare iPhones to Nokias, cars or even RC cars, for f sake.

Just because a battery works one way in one device, doesn’t mean it applies to every device.

You do have a right to complain. But at the same time, some people see this as some kind of proof that Apple is doing this planned obsolescence thing. Like they intentionally designed the phone to become worse after some time, instead of it being a consequence of the design goals they set. I believe they did not intentionally design the iPhone so you have to replace it after a year or two, so I’m voicing my opinion.

Also, I think 2 years of normal operation I had, then one battery replacement good enough for the next 2 years is fine. I don’t see it as “faulty”.

2 years is fine. The problem is it’s happening in 1 year. Just so you know.

 

[Norbs12]

What about when the phone is throttled but has never shutdown on its own.
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Ok then Apple has lost a large amount of credibility. How the respond will determine if that is returned

Honestly it's not good so an option to turn this off could prove to be useful, but is it just bad tuning of battery health vs throttling levels or planned obsolescence? I think that's quite a leap...

 

[Phonephreak]

I’m not saying they are identical. But still The battery should supply the stated power continuously until it is depleted. Their shouldn’t be voltage drops in a lithium battery until it is draining almost entirely.
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2 years is fine. The problem is it’s happening in 1 year. Just so you know.

Honestly it's not good so an option to turn this off could prove to be useful, but is it just bad tuning of battery health vs throttling levels or planned obsolescence? I think that's quite a leap...

i never claimed planned obsolescence. I think Apple just has to admit their mistake. They should recall these defective battery’s. Replace them for free and move on. They were trying to hide a faulty battery thru a software fix. At the price they charge they phone should use the highest quality parts. No cheap battery’s to increase profits a couple of more dollars. We aren’t talking about a small company struggling to stay afloat. This goes for the big android makers too.

 

[Norbs12]

i never claimed planned obsolescence. I think Apple just has to admit their mistake. They should recall these defective battery’s. Replace them for free and move on. They were trying to hide a faulty battery thru a software fix. At the price they charge they phone should use the highest quality parts. No cheap battery’s to increase profits a couple of more dollars. We aren’t talking about a small company struggling to stay afloat. This goes for the big android makers too.

Thing is, if it were defective batteries wouldn't we be hearing that phones are rebooting constantly before this update was released? This just seems like a optimization to extend the life of phones that would be rebooting though they went too aggressive with it and slowed down more phones than they expected. I had an iPhone 6, 6S and still on my 7 and I haven't had reboot issues or slowdown now.

 

[Phonephreak]

Thing is, if it were defective batteries wouldn't we be hearing that phones are rebooting constantly before this update was released? This just seems like a optimization to extend the life of phones that would be rebooting though they went too aggressive with it and slowed down more phones than they expected. I had an iPhone 6, 6S and still on my 7 and I haven't had reboot issues or slowdown now.

And many have this issue. My 6+,6s+, and 7+ are fine. My 6s is throttled and battery tested good.

 

[Norbs12]

And many have this issue. My 6+,6s+, and 7+ are fine. My 6s is throttled and battery tested good.

OK, so that's fair, this is poorly written power management software. Main thing I'm disagreeing with is the people saying this is some master plan to force people to buy new phones.

 

[newellj]

You don't really need to plan obsolescence. Time does that anyway. For instance, that old iPhone 4s in your pocket isn't going to be making use of the Galileo Satnav satellites any time soon.

This, and the consumer culture that demands novelty, shiny things and a continuing state of one-up.