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Can’t speak for others, but I’m not defending Apple. In fact, putting pressure on them is just good for consumers. I am glad they will have to think twice about batteries, longevity, optimizing iOS for older devices and communication. That is good. I do not feel sorry for them or have the need to justify them.

However, I hate conspiracy theories, making uninformed conclusions, oversimplification and misleading people. Or following some emotionally charged narratives. This is the kind of thinking that gets people to talk how vaccines are bad at family dinners, or how the moon landing was a hoax.

In the age of internet and social media - everyone’s an expert, everyone knows how things work and how things happen and these explanations are always simple to understand and often wrong and dangerous.

I like to “defend” (if I defend anything) complex explanations and getting informed the best I can (even though my knowledge is average at best) every chance I get. Even on a forum like this.

Instead of a nuanced, complicated but truthful discussion about batteries, design, technology - it’s easier to just explain it all by “planned obsolescence” or an idea that Apple is just greedy. This is what I’m against. No, Apple is not doing planned obsolescence. And yes they are profit focused, but viewing it as greed is having a very narrow outlook. Anyone with a minimum of understanding knows that planned obsolescence would quickly bankrupt Apple, but this is the most common explanation here.

Some people here claim you can have security without updates, some people think there is some mystical battery technology that would make all these problems go away but Apple decides not to use it, some people are comparing completely different devices (“If Nokia didn’t throttle, why would an iPhone”) etc. The lack of understanding is worrisome, and at the same time, myths that are easy to understand but fundamentally wrong are being born here - myths that will be told at dinner tables for years to come. Like the one where Apple is slowing down your phone so you’d buy a new one. Or that vaccines cause autism. Or whatever.

As for Apple, sure I like the company. But I’m not defending them, nor do they need my defense. I write these long posts in hopes someone will read them and start thinking beyond these superficial “answers”. Usually, though, it just ends with someone saying I am a sheep or drink Kool-Aid :)

Well written post. My problem is that Apple always tells us how great,fast,efficient their chips are and then uses a battery that can’t power the phone correctly. I’m sorry if your chip can’t be powered with throttling something is wrong. IMO in apples desire for thin they cheated on the battery. They are using cheap battery’s. I have rc car loops that have hundreds of charges and all work fine. They don’t throttle the battery because it’s getting old. The car just doesn’t run as long. When this happens I don’t go buy a new $1000 car. I buy a new battery.
 
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Apple throttled when all Apple had to do was tell the customer his battery was degrading and any issues he is experiencing was related to it. You can spin this any way you want, but Apple was deceptive by going behind customer's back. Therefore, it is worthy to question the intention behind the deception because what Apple was trying to 'remedy' is remediable by the customer.

I mean, my gosh, just tell them to replace the cheap $2-4 battery.

When was Apple planning on telling the customers they had slowed down the phone and it is very laggy due to it? They already waited one year...

I agree about the part that they should've communicated things better and that the way they tried to avoid all this turned out to be wrong. Criticize them about that all you like.

As for the part "just tell them to replace the battery" - that's oversimplification. At such volumes, this will be a huge undertaking. But this is Apple's problem, not ours.

Even letting users know is not simple. For example, the CPU does not permanently throttle on all phones. Certain phones get throttled just because of outside conditions, but Apple telling them it's time to replace a battery could be interpreted as "another Tim Cook cash grab". Again, this is not our problem, really.

The only thing I disagree here is your signature. It's wrong. The answer is not for Apple to stop "slowing down our phones", it's to make way for customers to have their batteries replaced more easily, to perhaps start using bigger batteries and to be more open about what's happening with batteries.

Also, "deception" is a strong word. Deception implies they tried to trick you. Instead, they were trying to resolve an issue - badly. I do believe their intentions were not malicious, so there was no deception. However, they did make a mistake in communicating what is happening and they should be criticized for it.
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So basically they have specified a battery that is barely up to the job in the interests of thinness.

Again, this is oversimplifying things. First of all, what is "barely up to the job" is a matter of perspective. The battery worked fine on my 6 for two years, then it was replaced. For me, it's adequate operation.

Second, they did not do it in the interests of "thinness", that is trivializing their market analysis. They made the phone they believed will attract buyers. We all know iPhones are expensive, so if you want to sell expensive phones while there are $200-$300 alternatives out there, you have to stand out of the crowd. Now, whether they made it to your liking or not, you can't argue that they managed to sell an insane, record-breaking number of 6-es, and they continue to make phones people like. The design is part of that, and we can't tell what aspect of that design is responsible. I'm sure that if they thought making a bit thicker phone would sell better, they would've done it.

They've certainly changed their position on weight, so maybe they are changing their mind about certain physical parameters. But they certainly didn't go for "make it thin at the cost of a battery barely able to work".
 
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The fact that Apple supports older phones with new OS updates far longer than their Android competition should say enough about this.
What good is providing years and years of future OS updates when the battery can't provide the capability to run them without throttling (and Apple Stores refuse to let you update your battery), or you're "compelled" to upgrade your iPhone anyways? This argument is becoming less and less valid when more and more users opt to NOT do a major iOS upgrade beyond the 1st or 2nd major one (e.g. x.0 to x+1.0). Hell, at this point, that'd be on par with my LG G4 which was able to go from Android 5.1.1 to Android 6.0. Can't seem to update to Oreo nor Nougat, but my phone already does most of everything I need it to do anyways.


Of course when each product comes out, a few apologists always say every product is exactly perfect and it should be exactly that thin, but nobody not even apologists say they should be thinner before Apple releases them.
"We think 4" is the right size for a phone" ;) (paraphrased). Although TBF, this was before Tim Cook took over.
 
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I agree about the part that they should've communicated things better and that the way they tried to avoid all this turned out to be wrong. Criticize them about that all you like.

As for the part "just tell them to replace the battery" - that's oversimplification. At such volumes, this will be a huge undertaking. But this is Apple's problem, not ours.

Even letting users know is not simple. For example, the CPU does not permanently throttle on all phones. Certain phones get throttled just because of outside conditions, but Apple telling them it's time to replace a battery could be interpreted as "another Tim Cook cash grab". Again, this is not our problem, really.

The only thing I disagree here is your signature. It's wrong. The answer is not for Apple to stop "slowing down our phones", it's to make way for customers to have their batteries replaced more easily, to perhaps start using bigger batteries and to be more open about what's happening with batteries.

Also, "deception" is a strong word. Deception implies they tried to trick you. Instead, they were trying to resolve an issue - badly. I do believe their intentions were not malicious, so there was no deception. However, they did make a mistake and they should be criticized for it.

This was never about communication, this should not have happened to begin with. And you certainly cannot hide behind 'we could have communicated better'. When you are negatively affecting the performance of customer's phones on purpose, yes, it is common sense legally to inform them of so.

All iPhone 6/6S are now in throttle mode, some iPhone 7 are in throttle mode. Because they entered the 'degrade' stage, however that is defined by Apple. Because Apple themselves tells that this is done to help with degrading of phones, not cold, etc. The only difference between them is that they are all throttled by their wear, which is different for different phones/users. For example, we are throttled 30% below 80% battery after three years of use. There are some here that are throttled beyond 50%.

Yes, telling people they need to change the battery would be "another Tim Cook cash grab". Sigh. As long as battery was not degraded by Apple on purpose, there is no issue. What Apple did now was much, much worse than telling people they need to change battery. And where are we now? Apple tells users that they need to change battery to keep performance. Back at square one, if we were to believe this was a non-conspiracy and a communication mishap. These guys don't get paid for communication mishaps.

No, my signature and the word deception is perfect to describe current events. This is what customers are feeling. Anger, frustration, dissatisfaction. Apple ruined a perfectly normal, working phone without any just cause.

When was Apple planning on telling the customers they had slowed down the phone and it is very laggy due to it? They already waited one year...
 
Why? I opened up OpenOffice ready to go.

Because after all that, you think they are slowing down phones for no good reason.

You clearly think that it’s a conspiracy by Apple to get people to upgrade with planned obsolescence. You’re ignoring all the explanations, the reasoning that this is a terrible business practice, you just believe this is the case and nothing anyone says will convince you otherwise. So what’s the point?

Just like you can’t convince certain people that man walked on the Moon.
 
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Because after all that, you think they are slowing down phones for no good reason.

Haven't you heard? Batteries only started to degrade after iPhone 6.

Just like you can’t convince certain people that man walked on the Moon.

Just like you can't convince certain people that Apple slowed down phones. I totally understand.
 
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Haven't you heard? Batteries only started to degrade after iPhone 6.


Lol, do you honestly believe that? My iPhone 5 shut down at 40% almost constantly. I vividly remember that, because it was super annoying.

However, iPhone 6 was the first iPhone with a PMC capable of taking battery wear into account.


Just like you can't convince certain people Apple slowed down phones. I totally understand.


Is anyone here claiming they are not slowing down certain phones? They totally do. Apple themselves admitted this. Also, they sometimes dim the screen and reduce speaker volume.

It's not without good reason, though.
 
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Lol, do you honestly believe that? My iPhone 5 shut down at 40% almost constantly. I vividly remember that, because it was super annoying.

However, iPhone 6 was the first iPhone with a PMC capable of taking battery wear into account.

Why was there no throttling then? Why do you need battery wear? Just throttle by X amount after each year, like Apple does now. Heck, even provide an option for the customer to decide. Or, tell them to replace the battery.

Is anyone here claiming they are not slowing down certain phones? I haven't noticed it. Apple themselves admitted this. Also, they sometimes dim the screen and reduce speaker volume.
I don't want to name and shame.

In addition, they sometimes:
 
Can’t speak for others, but I’m not defending Apple. In fact, putting pressure on them is just good for consumers. I am glad they will have to think twice about batteries, longevity, optimizing iOS for older devices and communication. That is good. I do not feel sorry for them or have the need to justify them.

However, I hate conspiracy theories, making uninformed conclusions, oversimplification and misleading people. Or following some emotionally charged narratives. This is the kind of thinking that gets people to talk how vaccines are bad at family dinners, or how the moon landing was a hoax.

In the age of internet and social media - everyone’s an expert, everyone knows how things work and how things happen and these explanations are always simple to understand and often wrong and dangerous.

I like to “defend” (if I defend anything) complex explanations and getting informed the best I can (even though my knowledge is average at best) every chance I get. Even on a forum like this.

Instead of a nuanced, complicated but truthful discussion about batteries, design, technology - it’s easier to just explain it all by “planned obsolescence” or an idea that Apple is just greedy. This is what I’m against. No, Apple is not doing planned obsolescence. And yes they are profit focused, but viewing it as greed is having a very narrow outlook. Anyone with a minimum of understanding knows that planned obsolescence would quickly bankrupt Apple, but this is the most common explanation here.

Some people here claim you can have security without updates, some people think there is some mystical battery technology that would make all these problems go away but Apple decides not to use it, some people are comparing completely different devices (“If Nokia didn’t throttle, why would an iPhone”) etc. The lack of understanding is worrisome, and at the same time, myths that are easy to understand but fundamentally wrong are being born here - myths that will be told at dinner tables for years to come. Like the one where Apple is slowing down your phone so you’d buy a new one. Or that vaccines cause autism. Or whatever.

As for Apple, sure I like the company. But I’m not defending them, nor do they need my defense. I write these long posts in hopes someone will read them and start thinking beyond these superficial “answers”. Usually, though, it just ends with someone saying I am a sheep or drink Kool-Aid :)

Not to worry, I will not call you a sheep or any other name. I respect what you said even if I don't 100% agree. By the same token it makes zero sense for some to call everyone who is upset over this "greedy" either. Some resort to name calling, rudeness etc. Perhaps people just need to vent a little and this forum allows all opinions. Some (not meaning you specifically) are using troll tactics to try to shut everyone down that even tries to explain why they feel the way they do. Notice how some are asking for proof etc..Thats the lawyers job, not Apple customers to prove or disprove anything.

Some even deny Apple even throttles even after they admitted they do. Most people here love Apple products and just want what's fair. We paid for these devices and I personally think we should get a say in what happens to them. Others may disagree. Food for thought...If Apple gets away with altering my device after the sale as they see fit, whats to stop car manufacturers from doing the same thing or any other company. Apple is trying to compensate customers with discounted battery replacements so I view that as a positive.

I have not joined any of these lawsuits being brought forth and I doubt if most here have either. Why should we be painted with the same brush and called greedy. There probably is some truth in that some of these lawsuits are just looking for money, that doesn't mean they will win. Apple will have their day in court and if they have done nothing illegal then these law suits will go no where. Apple has a team of lawyers to defend them already.

Bottom line is if you respect me I will respect you. If someone start name calling then I just tune that person out. I buy many Apple products and because I purchased these products I reserve the right to be critical when they do something I am not in agreement with.

I just purchased 2 iPhone 8’s about a month prior to all this. I installed the tvOS beta profile because I don't want my phones throttled. This probably won't work as a long term solution (not updating) but at least that gives me time to see how things play out. Apple generally provides good support for their products so I am willing to give them a chance to make this right, whatever that may be. Perhaps the truth is not black or white, just some shade of grey. We all need to calm down.
 
Why shouldn’t Apple be taught a lesson. They were shady in the “fix” for defective batterys and got caught. Yes recalling all batteries will be a financial hit but they will survive it.

I don’t understand why people defend Apple no matter what. There are people here that would defend Apple if they were stealing from the poor. Apple messed up.

Social media has changed the world. Once it gets going on it watch out. The public is very well aware that of the issue. Some will continue to but Apple because it’s apple. Others will back away. Trust is hard to earn and easily lost. As Apple is finding out
Different viewpoints. Apple didn’t destroy my trust; as a matter of fact much of what they have done with Safari tracking and bug tracking have cemented my trust. (Btw “trust” is not the right word)

YMMV.
 
This was never about communication, this should not have happened to begin with.

Maybe, for example they could've used a bigger battery. But their real mistakes IMO are:

1. They weren't prepared at all for sudden shutdowns in those designs. Which speaks of a lack of testing these days, and certainly of a lack of foresight and initial soft/hardware integration.

2. They allowed Genius bars to refuse battery replacements when a phone was slow. There is apparently a mismatch between the store test and the OS's throttling parameters.

3. They kept their throttling solution secret until found out. Not even a tech note. This from the same company that wrote highly detailed white papers on their security methods and Apple Pay implementation.

4. They removed apps' ability to check up on battery cycles right smack in the middle of all this.

A conspiracy to make people upgrade? I don't think so, not per se.

A "conspiracy" to hide that they were slowing down phones? Yep. Apple hates to be upfront about anything that could be viewed as negative... until they're caught. Part of their Steve Jobs leftover DNA is that they pretend to be perfect, and blame everyone/thing else if not.
 
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Why was there no throttling then? Why do you need battery wear? Just throttle by X amount after each year, like Apple does now.

Where did you get this? Um, no they don't. I ran Geekbench on our 1.5 year old 6S a few days ago - perfect score. They are not throttling by X amount every year. They do it when battery can't sustain the load anymore.

They did not started throttling until the phones started shutting down in bigger numbers - they did it when people started complaining about phones shutting down.

My guess is they thought that people will not pay attention to throttling and perceive their phones working normally longer - instead of shutting down (which everyone notices). In fact, this goes against claims of planned obsolescence - they probably wanted people to think their phone is "fine" for longer.

Anyway, just to make sure what you're saying here.... do you think they don't need to throttle phones with old batteries? You think they would work fine without throttling? Why are they doing it then?
 
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Where did you get this? Um, no they don't. I ran Geekbench on our 1.5 year old 6S a few days ago - perfect score. They are not throttling by X amount every year. They do it when battery can't sustain the load anymore.

They did not started throttling until the phones started shutting down in bigger numbers - they did it when people started complaining about phones shutting down.

My guess is they thought that people will not pay attention to throttling and perceive their phones working normally longer - instead of shutting down (which everyone notices). In fact, this goes against claims of planned obsolescence.

Anyway, just to make sure what you're saying here.... do you think they don't need to throttle phones with old batteries? You think they would work fine without throttling? Why are they doing it then?

We have three iPhone 6's without any shutdown issues for two years until Apple decided to throttled it. Three. Not one, not two, but three.

And no, there was no shut down issues for us. No battery drain issues. No other excuses.

Yes, you are absolutely right. Apple suspected people wouldn't notice and would continue without noticing the every increasing throttling until they switch/upgrade. Meaning Apple never planned to be forthcoming about the issue. Queue planned obsolescence.

Because of course, throttling will stop the battery from degrading, right? Providing indefinite life to the iPhone...

Throttling only makes sense for users who want their phone working until next model release in a couple of months.
 
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You are wrong.

Btw, Your nexus behaved correctly. Your battery needed replacing. Hence nexus got slated for the battery longevity and users replaced the batteries.

Do some critical thinking.

Good to see you just fully agreed with me, even though you don't realize it. The Nexus line suffered from the same 'planned obsolescence' that Apple are accused of.

Presumably you are unaware that the Nexus 6 also had 'sealed' batteries?

And you slam me for lack of critical thinking? Pot...kettle...
 
Yes, you are absolutely right. Apple suspected people wouldn't notice and would continue without noticing the every increasing throttling until they switch/upgrade. Meaning Apple never planned to be forthcoming about the issue. Queue planned obsolescence.

Conspiracy theory.
 
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Apple did not and does not throttle phones.


Was claimed by no one. CPUs get throttled under various circumstances for years.

"Apple does not slow down phones to get you to upgrade" is the only thing claimed. And that is still true. They do not intentionally degrade your experience to motivate you to buy a new phone. If they did - half their engineering team would quit, also they would quickly lose most of their customers. They are not run by insane people.

It is interesting that we're witnessing how Intel is cutting the performance of some of their CPUs, some for as much as 30%, to stop Meltdown and Spectre. Is that also to get you to buy new CPUs? Hey, I had no Meltdown on my CPU, why is it slower now? It must be that forced obsolescence you keep mentioning!
 
Different viewpoints. Apple didn’t destroy my trust; as a matter of fact much of what they have done with Safari tracking and bug tracking have cemented my trust. (Btw “trust” is not the right word)

YMMV.
You are allowed your opinion. Others have the same right. Time will tell
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Different viewpoints. Apple didn’t destroy my trust; as a matter of fact much of what they have done with Safari tracking and bug tracking have cemented my trust. (Btw “trust” is not the right word)

YMMV.
What’s the ‘right’ word?
 
Apple did not and does not throttle phones.
That's where you're wrong and what most people who think apple hurt them don't understand, all modern CPUs throttle for many reasons.

There are charts (see link below) that show this during benchmarks that all phones throttle the CPU all the time based on how hot they are it does not take long for the CPU to reach it's thermal capacity (literally seconds before the CPU starts throttling at full load) the battery health is just another use case for throttling and proper power management.

Think of it like this... if the CPU overheated it could cause a phone reboot just like the battery being in poor health could. It's part balancing act, part art... and it always has been.

I do get why people are upset, but it's misguided.

https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/287733/does-an-iphone-throttle-its-cpu-under-heavy-load
 
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That's where you're wrong and what most people who think apple hurt them don't understand, all modern CPUs throttle for many reasons.

There are charts (see link below) that show this during benchmarks that all phones throttle the CPU all the time based on how hot they are it does not take long for the CPU to reach it's thermal capacity (literally seconds before the CPU starts throttling at full load) the battery health is just another use case for throttling and proper power management.

Think of it like this... if the CPU overheated it could cause a phone reboot just like the battery being in poor health could. It's part balancing act, part art... and it always has been.

I do get why people are upset, but it's misguided.

https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/287733/does-an-iphone-throttle-its-cpu-under-heavy-load

A brand new phone with a cpu intensive task may throttle for heat and that will be its max performance level. And Geekbench will show fairly consistent max performance numbers from one new phone to another new phone in the same class.

Over time this max performance level now drops due to battery health.

Two different arguments.
 
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A brand new phone with a cpu intensive task may throttle for heat and that will be its max performance level. And Geekbench will show fairly consistent max performance numbers from one new phone to another new phone in the same class.

Over time this max performance level now drops due to battery health.

Two different arguments.
No it's not, in a perfect world batteries would not degrade and chips would not overheat. In reality we do things to compensate for those things from crashing our phones.
 
Was claimed by no one. CPUs get throttled under various circumstances for years.

"Apple does not slow down phones to get you to upgrade" is the only thing claimed. And that is still true. They do not intentionally degrade your experience to motivate you to buy a new phone. If they did - half their engineering team would quit, also they would quickly lose most of their customers. They are not run by insane people.

It is interesting that we're witnessing how Intel is cutting the performance of some of their CPUs, some for as much as 30%, to stop Meltdown and Spectre. Is that also to get you to buy new CPUs? Hey, I had no Meltdown on my CPU, why is it slower now? It must be that forced obsolescence you keep mentioning!
Apple did not and does not throttle phones. It is all a conspiracy. You said it again right now.

Also, it seems Intel, according to you, is following through with forced obsolescence.

All companies forcing users to upgrade by diminishing their experience overtime should be stopped. Apple is no exception.
 
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