From Steve Jobs' Biography: "I'm going to destroy Android"

[linux2mac]

I would've said that you're giving IT consultants a bad name but that wouldn't be fair to all the other consultants doing that. Make sure you never mention the fact that you can't fix BSODs to your colleagues.

I know (and work with) plenty of CS majors and other computer literate people. If computer experts have a BSOD, which rarely happens, they check the computer hardware and the drivers. That's usually were the issue is. Then they fix it by replacing the broken hardware or the broken driver. It's not that hard. I've had a kernel panic on OS X caused by a bad third party kext so it's not like it's unique for windows.

Granted, most CS people I know use Linux but that's not because of BSODs.

In actuality I think my CS degree was a waste of $80K. But I needed that piece of paper to get my foot in the door of my Fortune 100 company. Everything I learned was on the job training. My Fortune 100 company invested thousands of dollars training me the Microsoft way. It was a Microsoft shop after all as are many large companies. In essence they paid me to start my own business.

I never used Linux while a CS undergraduate, I was a Windows guy then. When I started my company I was actually still touting Microsoft and implementing .NET solutions for small to mid sized businesses. It was a colleague that introduced me to the world of Linus Torvalds when I brought him on board for a project. I soon realized my customers were over spending on buggy, Microsoft based, proprietary solutions (that ranged from $50K to $100K) that could be replaced with open source, enterprise level solutions that were not only more stable, but without the enterprise MS price tag. Thus I found a niche market to serve and realized the sham MS had been running all along by locking folks into over priced, buggy, proprietary solutions. Hence my disdain for MS.

 

[McGiord]

Happy 2012!

How much progress was made in 2011?

How close is Apple to win their thermonuclear war on Android?

The war is on Android not on Google, or Microsoft Windows and the BSOD.

 

[yeah]

I never got why people said "Android has fragmentation" iOS does too. Only one iPhone will use two cores, and only one iPhone has the A4 processor.

The 3GS has the slowest processor, the iPhone 4 only uses one core, the iPhone 4S is the only one to use two cores.

And I'm they all run iOS 5.

Now tell me, does that sound fragmented?

Fragmentation doesn't mean hardware. It means software. All 3 of them have iOS 5. Android has fragmentation. They have 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 phones with 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 different OS versions

 

[thenerdal]

Fragmentation doesn't mean hardware. It means software. All 3 of them have iOS 5. Android has fragmentation. They have 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 phones with 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 different OS versions

Currently, they have 1. Gingerbread. The low end phones may have versions before that, but then again, those are low end phones.

ICS is pretty much only out on 1 phone, the Galaxy Nexus

 

[adnbek]

On this BSOD issue, on my fathers dell everytime he installs a new program it cause something else not to work.

It would cause the machine to take 10 mins to shut down. Take 20 mins to start up. Be really laggy and so on. He's done clean installs and still the same thing.

Windows machine always have the same problem

James

Let me guess... Type msconfig (in run under XP, in search under Vista or 7) and go to Startup. How many items are listed? Look at your clock on the bottom right. How many icons next to it? Probably too many.

My experience with people who have PCs running slow is that those people will install ANYTHING and EVERYTHING until there are about 100 different 3rd-party background tasks all running at boot. Now if it's happening on a clean install, are you using an OEM disc? Tons of bloatware comes pre-installed with install discs from PC manufacturers.

Mac users don't seem to have this problem as often because a) Macs don't ship with pre-installed bloat to begin with and b) most apps don't use installers that sneakily try to install other crap.
RAM and CPU are finite resources. Any computer will run slowly if the resources are taken up by too many programs running at once, including background programs.

First, uninstall programs you don't need (go to Add/Remove programs and uninstall everything that is useless).
Prevent programs you are keeping from running at startup (including helper programs) by going into their settings and unticking whatever box that says "Run at Windows startup" or the sort (and if the option doesn't exist as it sometimes may, take out the checkmark in MSCONFIG).
And finally, when installing anything from now on, don't just click "Next", "next", "next" without looking carefully. Often times, programs will come bundled with junkware such as toolbars and such and you need to opt-out manually for them to not get installed. And when installing anything new, again check to see if it's running at startup.

Why all programs insist on adding startup items by default is beyond me. At the very least, the installer should ask first, but that's a different discussion for another thread.

Keeping your machine lean ensures it runs smoothly. Both my Windows and Macs boot in less than 30 seconds and shut down in less than 5.

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Currently, they have 1. Gingerbread. The low end phones may have versions before that, but then again, those are low end phones.

ICS is pretty much only out on 1 phone, the Galaxy Nexus

Please see my post here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/14088705/

Android phones running prior versions aren't all low-end phones. Some just aren't getting updates when they should be. Fragmentation is very, very real on Android. It's inevitable when dozens of new models are churned out every single year, all with which have different specs, screen sizes, resolutions etc.

Heck, even Google acknowledges the problem (yet powerless to stop it) so to deny it is being disingenuous.

 

[KnightWRX]

Android phones running prior versions aren't all low-end phones. Some just aren't getting updates when they should be. Fragmentation is very, very real on Android. It's inevitable when dozens of new models are churned out every single year, all with which have different specs, screen sizes, resolutions etc.

Heck, even Google acknowledges the problem (yet powerless to stop it) so to deny it is being disingenuous.

The only thing disingenuous is calling a very, very real problem. It's baked into the frameworks and Google provides the tools necessary to "deal" with it for developers :

Platform versions :
http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/platform-versions.html

Screen sizes/resolutions :
http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/screens.html

In other words, the system is made to be resilient to fragmentation. Just like OS X, just like Windows, just like Linux. Programmers have dealt with making applications for varying hardware platforms for decades, why is it suddenly a problem on a phone ?

 

[smali]

Macrumors is a like a Church.

Full of deluded people without the capacity for rational thought.

 

[adnbek]

The only thing disingenuous is calling a very, very real problem. It's baked into the frameworks and Google provides the tools necessary to "deal" with it for developers :

Platform versions :
http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/platform-versions.html

Screen sizes/resolutions :
http://developer.android.com/resources/dashboard/screens.html

In other words, the system is made to be resilient to fragmentation. Just like OS X, just like Windows, just like Linux. Programmers have dealt with making applications for varying hardware platforms for decades, why is it suddenly a problem on a phone ?

Have you even read my post or checked out the links? What you are talking about is completely different.

I'm not referring to fragmentation from a developer's point of view. My post is about the Android distribution model where once Google releases the code for a new OS version, it must first go through the manufacturer to skin and customize, then to the carrier to further customize it, before it finally reaches the consumer. And because there is no incentive for manufacturers or carriers to keep supporting all the devices out there, a significant number of them are left behind and never get updated. Even phones that are relatively new.

The difference between Windows, OSX regarding fragmentation is that they are both closed systems and Apple/Microsoft design the whole OS and release it directly to the end user. It's up to Apple and Microsoft to shoulder the burden of ensuring compatibility with the hardware. With Android, the burden is on the manufacturer (Samsung, HTC, etc.) to ensure the Android source code is adapted to work on their devices. And from a manufacturer's point of view, there's just no financial incentive to do so, especially when they keep churning out new models every few weeks.

 

[KnightWRX]

I'm not referring to fragmentation from a developer's point of view.

That's the only fragmentation that matters. At the end of the day, the important thing for users is that the apps developers write run on their devices. Not the minor version tacked on at the end of their OS release.

And the situation with Windows, OS X and Linux isn't really different in the perspective you're talking about. Hardware OEMs have to make sure to customize Microsoft's, Apple's or the community's code to add in any drivers for hardware that they make/sell.

 

[thenerdal]

Have you even read my post or checked out the links? What you are talking about is completely different.

I'm not referring to fragmentation from a developer's point of view. My post is about the Android distribution model where once Google releases the code for a new OS version, it must first go through the manufacturer to skin and customize, then to the carrier to further customize it, before it finally reaches the consumer. And because there is no incentive for manufacturers or carriers to keep supporting all the devices out there, a significant number of them are left behind and never get updated. Even phones that are relatively new.

If a person cares about being up to date, they can always update the version themselves. If they don't care about what version they run, then why does it matter?

 

[adnbek]

That's the only fragmentation that matters. At the end of the day, the important thing for users is that the apps developers write run on their devices. Not the minor version tacked on at the end of their OS release.

Wrong! I wouldn't called updates from Eclair to Froyo, Froyo to Gingerbread and Gingerbread to ICS "minor". I would agree if the OS was already mature and updates were merely cosmetic in nature, but that is not the case. Are you saying you wouldn't care if your phone was stuck on, say, Froyo even when the OS is many revisions ahead?

Plus, Android apps do have OS minimum requirements so if you're stuck on Froyo because Samsung or HTC refuses to put the effort in updating your device 6 months after you bought it, that means you're left out of any app that requires Gingerbreak or higher. Would that not piss you off?

Even from a developer's point of view, I could also imagine that it does still create a lot more work to adapt your app to work on all those devices, the screen size being the biggest problem. Your link about screen sizes is rather simplistic though. A link from that page takes you here:

http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/screens_support.html

Not as simple now, huh? In short, it explains that the OS will do scaling automatically as long as your image resources are close enough to native resolutions, but you still need to create image resources to take into account the different resolutions out there.

And as more and more phones are released pushing resolutions and dpis higher, it'll get more complex. This is inevitable for both iOS and Android but with one difference: Apple doesn't release a new phone every 4 weeks.

And the situation with Windows, OS X and Linux isn't really different in the perspective you're talking about. Hardware OEMs have to make sure to customize Microsoft's, Apple's or the community's code to add in any drivers for hardware that they make/sell.

A wrong analogy. The phone manufacturers actually re-write the source code of Android to make it work with their device (this excludes any cosmetic modifications they do for branding purposes), hence the definition of open source. OEMs cannot examine or modify OSX or Windows source code at all. Drivers, on the other hand, are relatively simple to write and no where near the complexity of re-writing and modifying the entire core OS.

If it was as simple as you're trying to portray, Android phone makers would have no qualms in issuing updates for all their phones. There are plenty of resources out there that explain all of this. Please do some research.

 

[KnightWRX]

Wrong! I wouldn't called updates from Eclair to Froyo, Froyo to Gingerbread and Gingerbread to ICS "minor". I would agree if the OS was already mature and updates were merely cosmetic in nature, but that is not the case. Are you saying you wouldn't care if your phone was stuck on, say, Froyo even when the OS is many revisions ahead?

As a normal user using a phone ? No, I wouldn't care. I probably wouldn't even know. It's not like iOS were stock apps only get updates through OS updates, stock apps get updated independently, so what do I care if the OS isn't ?

Plus, Android apps do have OS minimum requirements so if you're stuck on Froyo because Samsung or HTC refuses to put the effort in updating your device 6 months after you bought it, that means you're left out of any app that requires Gingerbreak or higher. Would that not piss you off?

It's up to app developers to target proper API levels to reach the user base that will most profit them. Froyo seems to be that bare minimum now a days, not Gingerbread as far as phone applications go. If you look at the graph I posted, that covers around 90%+ of Android users.

 

[adnbek]

If a person cares about being up to date, they can always update the version themselves. If they don't care about what version they run, then why does it matter?

Are you referring to CyanogenMod? I suppose that's a good solution but the mere fact it even exists proves my point about the Android ecosystem. This is not about the users. Obviously, they've proven to be resourceful. But the ecosystem (Google->Manufacturer->Carrier) is broken and I just don't understand why anybody would want to reward companies like Samsung, LG, etc. for their blatant lack of support towards their consumers.

Of course non-techies won't care either way. I have no doubt there are some iPhones out there still running 4.0.1 as well, blissfully unaware that there even is an iOS 5.

But this is obviously a discussion between techies, not the average joe who doesn't know better.

 

[adnbek]

As a normal user using a phone ? No, I wouldn't care. I probably wouldn't even know. It's not like iOS were stock apps only get updates through OS updates, stock apps get updated independently, so what do I care if the OS isn't ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_version_history

Some of the changes can be significant though between OS versions. Just have a look. Are you saying you don't care if you're left out (intentionally) from updates that make improvements, fix bugs or add new features to your phone?

It's up to app developers to target proper API levels to reach the user base that will most profit them. Froyo seems to be that bare minimum now a days, not Gingerbread as far as phone applications go. If you look at the graph I posted, that covers around 90%+ of Android users.

Of course, that makes sense. But if an app wants to make use of APIs released in newer versions it can't, because there's a good majority of owners who would be left behind. App developers are forced to aim for the lowest common denominator at the expense of innovation and adding new features to their apps introduced in later OS versions.
And going back to your graph, right now it would indeed suck to have a phone running Eclair, right? Suppose that is where your phone will be in a year. How would you feel then?

Anyways, this whole discussion is tiresome. Tech journals have reported on this issue to death and say it's a problem. Google themselves acknowledge that it's a problem. So I don't understand why you can still deny it. I understand that you like Android. That doesn't mean you must be blind to its faults. Google is not the one to blame though. It's the distribution method. This is wishful thinking on my part but maybe if Google starts manufacturing its own phones through its acquisition of Motorola, other companies will fall in line and start supporting their devices better.

I'm an Apple fan and you know what? I returned the 4S I bought because of the lack of 2G/3G toggle on it which IMO is important to have. I (and many iPad owners) also complained to Apple that the iPad 1 was deliberately left out from getting multitouch gestures in iOS 5, which they rectified in the next update. In other words, just because I prefer iOS, I'm not complacent about it.

I get the sense that you and thenerdal just don't care. In fact, you both said it. I don't blame you though since Android manufacturers could care less as well. At least Apple does act when barraged by complaints. I guess I would become complacent too if I bought a device from a company that withdraws all support only a short time later because they have a new one they want to sell you.

 

[thenerdal]

Are you referring to CyanogenMod? I suppose that's a good solution but the mere fact it even exists proves my point about the Android ecosystem. This is not about the users. Obviously, they've proven to be resourceful. But the ecosystem (Google->Manufacturer->Carrier) is broken and I just don't understand why anybody would want to reward companies like Samsung, LG, etc. for their blatant lack of support towards their consumers.

Of course non-techies won't care either way. I have no doubt there are some iPhones out there still running 4.0.1 as well, blissfully unaware that there even is an iOS 5.

But this is obviously a discussion between techies, not the average joe who doesn't know better.

Actually, CyanogenMod is different. It lets you install Android on tablets that don't have Android. And not many people care about the "ecosystem"

 

[KnightWRX]

Some of the changes can be significant though between OS versions. Just have a look. Are you saying you don't care if you're left out (intentionally) from updates that make improvements, fix bugs or add new features to your phone?

You mean like how iPhone 3G users were left out of important security fixes after 4.2.1 ? How they were left out of multi-tasking even though the jailbreaking community managed to have things like backgrounder running reliably years before ?

Left out of freaking wallpapers ? No seriously, a couple of colored pixels behind icons...

I'll reply the same thing people usually reply in these conditions : The phone still works the same as the day you bought it. And again, since the core apps don't rely on OS updates like they do in iOS, it's really much less than you're trying to pretend it is.

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Anyways, this whole discussion is tiresome. Tech journals have reported on this issue to death and say it's a problem.

And I'm sure the tech journals are the most knowledgeable on this issue. Good thing they told all of us, I guess now we'll see Android market share diminishing.

No seriously. The tech press likes to grab on negativity for page views. They do it to Apple and iOS and its closed ecosystem, they do it to Android's "fragmentation". They do it to RIM's falling market share and they do it to Microsoft's laughable attempts with WP7.

And you want to give them credibility ? After 20 odd years+ of reading the "tech journals", I can safely most tech journalists have no actual clue about the tech industry in general.

 

[adder7712]

You mean like how iPhone 3G users were left out of important security fixes after 4.2.1 ? How they were left out of multi-tasking even though the jailbreaking community managed to have things like backgrounder running reliably years before ?

Left out of freaking wallpapers ? No seriously, a couple of colored pixels behind icons...

I'll reply the same thing people usually reply in these conditions : The phone still works the same as the day you bought it. And again, since the core apps don't rely on OS updates like they do in iOS, it's really much less than you're trying to pretend it is.

In fact, the iPhone 3G with 4.2.1 is godawfully slow. And, I don't think background wallpapers are processor hungry.

 

[macsmurf]

As for your other point, most of us Linux user don't use Windows not out of hate for the product (especially the NT line which is a robust design) but more out of hate for Microsoft's anti-competitive practices in the 90s and early 00s. Of course, the newer generation does not know what Microsoft is capable of to kill an entire industry, as they have not witnessed first hand like us more old timers did.

I wonder if that is true. I went from Windows to Linux to OS X on the desktop. On both switches the reason was that it was simply a better fit for the stuff I use my computer for. I don't care about the politics much. If I did, I would have to stop using OS X because in my view Apple is just as anti-competitive as Microsoft is. It's just that, until recently, they haven't been big enough to apply those practices with any success. Now they are, and they do.

I originally commented because Linux2mac is a proponent of the mythology that Windows is simply broken. I see that mythology a lot on this site. The fact is that Windows works fine and has a huge role in business where downtime costs a lot of money. That doesn't mean that you can't configure it to run horribly but that is true of any configurable system.

 

[adnbek]

You mean like how iPhone 3G users were left out of important security fixes after 4.2.1 ? How they were left out of multi-tasking even though the jailbreaking community managed to have things like backgrounder running reliably years before ?

Left out of freaking wallpapers ? No seriously, a couple of colored pixels behind icons...

Ok, now you're just grasping at straws.

You probably know very well already that the 3G, hardware wise, just couldn't handle iOS4. That's why they stopped updating it. There's a difference between not releasing updates to the 3G because the phone can't handle it and intentionally leaving out phones that are still fully capable.

But of course you already knew that and just needed to find something to continue arguing with.


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[/COLOR]

And I'm sure the tech journals are the most knowledgeable on this issue. Good thing they told all of us, I guess now we'll see Android market share diminishing.

No seriously. The tech press likes to grab on negativity for page views. They do it to Apple and iOS and its closed ecosystem, they do it to Android's "fragmentation". They do it to RIM's falling market share and they do it to Microsoft's laughable attempts with WP7.

And you want to give them credibility ? After 20 odd years+ of reading the "tech journals", I can safely most tech journalists have no actual clue about the tech industry in general.

Of course not. They don't have clue. Only you do.

Conveniently you ignore the rest. How about Google? Are they credible enough for you? They acknowledge it's a problem. They tried to get all these manufacturers and carriers to pledge on releasing timely updates which they have balked at.

Anyway, I'm through arguing with you. You clearly are incapable of any objective thought.

 

[KnightWRX]

Ok, now you're just grasping at straws.

Hey, I'm pulling a Samsung to your Apple here.

Discussion over. You're not convincing me, and obviously, I'm not convincing you. However, who cares really ? Keep believing Android is fragmented and not understanding the platform, it doesn't change my life at all.

 

[smoledman]

IP theft is theft and Samsung/Google/HTC have committed grand theft.

 

[adder7712]

IP theft is theft and Samsung/Google/HTC have committed grand theft.

My Galaxy S II doesn't look (it looks more like a Samsung f700) or work like an iPhone. So argument refuted.

If it's "grand theft" like you claim to be, the device would be a 1:1 copy of the iPhone.

 

[smoledman]

My Galaxy S II doesn't look (it looks more like a Samsung f700) or work like an iPhone. So argument refuted.

If it's "grand theft" like you claim to be, the device would be a 1:1 copy of the iPhone.

Let's see. The SG SII has:

black rectangular shaped brick with rounded edges(like iPhone)
multi-touch screen with all the same gestures the iPhone has
rows of application shortcuts that look similar to iOS shortcuts

look like a knock-off to me.

 

[KnightWRX]

IP theft is theft and Samsung/Google/HTC have committed grand theft.

Infringement is the term you're looking for. And they have not yet been found guilty of it.

 

[smoledman]

Infringement is the term you're looking for. And they have not yet been found guilty of it.

Steve Jobs declared them thieves and that's enough for me.