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Would rather have a Buick Regal Turbo/GS. Handles better, stable, more technology and safety features, etc.

I would take a good FWD vehicle like the Regal over a Crown Vic any day.

Depends what you want, for Daily Driving, speed, handling, and all that stuff doesn't matter to me, and safety? The Crown Vic is Body On frame, and it weighs 2 tons. I'd say its got safety covered.

And Regal? Why would you want that garbage when you could get a slightly used G8?

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Definitely G8 GT over Regal. My point was just because the Crown Vic is RWD, doesn't make it a good vehicle.

The Crown Vic in my eyes is a good car, not because its RWD, but just because of its other very good pros.
 
I had a 912 for a few years... it was a lot of fun. Once you got used to it's, um, handling quirks, it was fine. I used to tell people that my car wasn't the fastest car on road - but I didn't slow down much for corners. That was the only Porsche I've ever owned. I will add that I owned a 1967 Volvo P1800 (carbs, not fuel injected) and it actually was a more fun to drive than the 912.... they were pretty close in age.

Now... my "rear-engine/rear-wheel-drive car is a Smart Car (gas), with the convertible option.... it is also surprisingly fun to drive.

My father has a 1969 1800S, with the 2L engine and carburators. It is really fun to drive, especially because there is no power steering which makes it very direct and gives a real feel of the road. Not very powerful (only 118 HP or so) but feels pretty quick nonetheless.
 
A RWD car I'd love would be a Tesla S. The space, in fact more, than a FWD car, low centre of gravity and full torque delivery all the way through the revs...

Just a shame the one with the most range has to be so much money right now!
 
Depends what you want, for Daily Driving, speed, handling, and all that stuff doesn't matter to me, and safety? The Crown Vic is Body On frame, and it weighs 2 tons. I'd say its got safety covered.

And Regal? Why would you want that garbage when you could get a slightly used G8?

Does it have stability control, traction control, side curtain airbags? How strong is the A-pillar( for rollover purposes)?

How does it do against this type of crash when the frame can't absorb the hit?


The Panther platform is over 30 years old. Like GM's W-Body, it doesn't really feature the best safety standards seen in new cars. One of the reasons why Ford discontinued the Crown Vic was it couldn't meet new safety regulations( I believe).

As to the Regal, it is a good vehicle. It is very stable( almost BMW-like) and handles pretty decently. I want a car that I can do an emergency maneuver safely. I don't feel the Crown Vic can do that with it riding like a boat. It doesn't have the suspension for it. That is why handling should be important. I prefer RWD as well, but the Regal is a pretty decent FWD vehicle especially with the 2.0T in the Turbo model and GS. I drove the GS on GM's Milford Proving Grounds( also referred to as the Lutz Ring). It is a blast to drive full out.
 
Yeah the Regal is the Opel Insignia over in Europe.

Ahh!

It's funny when I see Ford Contours (Mondeos) and Saturn L200s(Vauxhall Vectras I think) here. It's bad when I see "Escorts" and they are rebadged Mazdas instead of the 'real' Escorts we had in the UK. Could never have imagined the Escorts here sliding around in the WRC in the 90s!

At least GM didn't try to bring the British Nova over here though. I had one of those cars as a kid and it sucked completely.
 
Ahh!

It's funny when I see Ford Contours (Mondeos) and Saturn L200s(Vauxhall Vectras I think) here. It's bad when I see "Escorts" and they are rebadged Mazdas instead of the 'real' Escorts we had in the UK. Could never have imagined the Escorts here sliding around in the WRC in the 90s!

At least GM didn't try to bring the British Nova over here though. I had one of those cars as a kid and it sucked completely.

The L-Series isn't very fair since it was significantly modified in order to put the polymer panels on it. :p

The Verano is based on the Astra. The new Encore is also the new Opel Mokka.
 
Audi doesn't build a SINGLE rear wheel drive car. Most of them up to the A6 are FWD and quattro is an upgrade. BMW doesn't build a SINGLE front wheel drive car but they still have AWD as an upgrade. That is why I separated Audi. Front wheel drive platforms for most of their cars.

Technically, Audi offers a RWD car, the R8 LMS customer race car.
:cool:

Give BMW a month. Rumor has it they're going to unveil a FWD car at the Paris motor show at the end of September.
:(

A bit embarrassed that my bone stock daily driver only makes 138hp/liter.
:eek:
 
I've owned fwd, rwd, awd and even 4wd. Rwd was by far the most fun but it was a Miata. These are just so much fun regardless although rwd obviously helps. Fwd was just fine. I drove through many New England winters with just all-season tires and haven't gotten stuck anywhere. Currently own an awd Subaru. It should do just fine on the snow.

But, it is automotive blasphemy for a FWD vehicle to wear the BMW badge.
It's an absolute blasphemy for a Mini to be made by a BMW. Original Mini was an awesome car. New Mini is an overpriced unreliable pos.
 
It's an absolute blasphemy for a Mini to be made by a BMW. Original Mini was an awesome car. New Mini is an overpriced unreliable pos.

Fine by me as long as it prevented FWD from ever touching BMW....

Which it didn't..... :mad:
 
Does it have stability control, traction control, side curtain airbags? How strong is the A-pillar( for rollover purposes)?

Well, I've had a couple of these cars. The most recent one is a 2010 ( You couldn't buy them unless you were a fleet or company, I bought mine from a local bankrupt limo company, its bog standard, No modifications, but it has every single option ), Yes it has ABS, Traction Control, Stability Control, and mine has side curtain airbags. Not sure on how strong the A-Pillar is, but I have been in a roll over in my 02 before, ( more on that later ).

How does it do against this type of crash when the frame can't absorb the hit?

No idea. But I would still assume fairly well. ( More on that later )

The Panther platform is over 30 years old. Like GM's W-Body, it doesn't really feature the best safety standards seen in new cars. One of the reasons why Ford discontinued the Crown Vic was it couldn't meet new safety regulations( I believe).

It is over 30 years old, but unlike the W body, it was a good platform at one point. I refuse to buy anything made by general motors again. I've to much problem with that garbage over the years.

Safety was not really one of the reasons they got rid of it, though I will admit, they did not do very well in side impacts. ( Most cars don't but some do ). But I can live with that. The main reasons were, fuel consumption for fleets is pretty terrible, they only average 18-22mpg. Which for me is fine, because I literally don't care how much gas costs. They were becoming less and less popular because of that, the tooling to build these cars was starting to age to the point that it would require a complete overhaul of several plants. And a couple of other reasons.

I'm sad to see it go personally, ( No I'm not an old fart, ha ). But I understand why it did go. Though many police departments aren't happy about it.

As to the Regal, it is a good vehicle. It is very stable( almost BMW-like) and handles pretty decently. I want a car that I can do an emergency maneuver safely. I don't feel the Crown Vic can do that with it riding like a boat. It doesn't have the suspension for it.

You talk like its some kind of top heavy SUV, all of mine have had the LS Handling package ( the police suspension without the crazy stiff shocks in front ), and none of them were " boatlike ", sure they don't handle like my Boxster by any means, but its not like your gonna roll the thing if you have to swerve.

The Regal does seem pretty good, but the problems I see for it, are for me. Its to small ( Not that I can't fit, I just like big cars ), and isn't it a 4 banger turbo? No thanks.

hat is why handling should be important. I prefer RWD as well, but the Regal is a pretty decent FWD vehicle especially with the 2.0T in the Turbo model and GS. I drove the GS on GM's Milford Proving Grounds( also referred to as the Lutz Ring). It is a blast to drive full out.
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I prefer RWD to the point where I won't buy an FWD car if I can help it, AWD? Sure. But no FWD for me. And if you think the Regal is a blast to drive, you should try out my 560WHP+ Mercury Marauder ( Panther platform car, just the hot version, mine is a bit modified. By a bit I mean about 25 grand worth. )

I just simply don't like small cars like that, I'm sure they're fine. I just dislike them.

For me, because I can't get another Vic, my next car will most likely be an RWD or AWD SRT8 Dodge Challenger, or a BMW M3 Sedan.

The reason I like the Crown Vics, is because I love them as daily drivers, I love the big lazy V8, relaxed steering feel, tons of room. And for me, rock solid reliability. I can't say I've ever had a major failure with one. And Ive had a couple of them.

I was in my first accident with one of these right out of college, I got rear ended by a lady in a Toyota Wagon, I was at a red light, she didn't pay attention, wrecked right into me. I swear, my Vic only moved a couple feet, truck was smashed in of course, but I suffered no injurys of any kind. While she suffered a broken leg, and cracked rib. Bad example I know

The second accident I was in a Crown Vic, was oh idk, about 5 years ago, I was up in PA visiting family, BAD snow storm, tons of ice. Bad. I was heading down an pretty steep S Bend, taking it slow, and behind me, I got nailed by a trail blazer sliding down said S bend, tons of ice at the top, tons of ice all over the hill ( I was stupid for even being out ), so this knocks my car sideways, slides down the hill sideways, hit the brakes, gave it just, tried to kick the ass end out, counter steered every direction, to much ice, slid down the hill, I was going fast enough that I flipped over a pretty small ( the kind that isnt high enough, the car flipped over the side of the hill, rolled over 3 times, roof held, all the glass smashed, landed on the roof, probably went over the side at least at 34-40mph. Trailer blazer couldnt stop, didn;t flip, but went over the hill to into a tree ( It was a REALLY bad storm, accidents all over the place that night ) pretty near me, she was fine. I was fine to, I was just hanging by my seatbelt thinking....how am I not injured? At all? Managed to unbuckle myself, and crawl out the smashed drivers side window.

Third accident was last year, which is why I bought a new Vic ( Well by new, it only had like 12K on it when I got it, and it was nice that its loaded with every single option, still miss my Marquis ), was heading down the main Drag into the town ( that I kind of live by, got some nice stores that I sometimes visit. Normally I'm a straight to the city boy ), going about, 45mph? Well out of nowhere, a 03? 04? ( the boxy generation before the current ) Malibu slams directly into me, straight head on crash. It was not her fault actually as I found out later, one of her tie rods end had broken, and the thing drifts right over into my lane, guess she didn't realize she had brakes ;)

Anyway, both cars were completely totalled. Here's the thing, she ended up with 1 broken leg, and another broken foot from the footwell caving in, 2 cracked ribs, and a couple of other not serious, but pretty major injuries.

What happened to me? Well my glasses got smashed from the air bag, I had a huge bruise on my chest from the seatbelt locking. But other than that, I walked away without any injuries.

Maybe these events are why I trust these cars so much.
 
Dang. Not bad for a 30 year old car practically. Not knocking your preferences in vehicle. Just I've driven a Town Car and the thing floats. Along with zero power, etc. Vehicle needed to be shot 10 years ago. ;)

Though I still doubt it will do well in that off side test when it will miss the frame and hit the vehicles soft spots.

And the only vehicles you will see me in having 560 hp is a CTS-V, camaro zl1, corvette zr1, and a Lamborghini Aventador. :D

And I have had good luck with GM vehicles. Two Suburbans, an Equinox, and a Saturn Aura(my personal car). All have been reliable. The equinox is at 110,000 miles now at 7 years old, the current suburban is almost to 100,000 and 11 years old, and my car is at a grandma low of 28,000 at 6 years old.

And curious, if you hate small cars why considering an M3? It's smaller than the Regal. Not knocking the M3 though as I would love one( especially an E92 M3). Just curious.
 
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My general rule is if it's German - don't touch it, period. If it's American and under $50K - don't touch it. I suppose Mustang/Camaro are a bit of an exception but why buy American if you can buy Japanese?
 
My general rule is if it's German - don't touch it, period. If it's American and under $50K - don't touch it. I suppose Mustang/Camaro are a bit of an exception but why buy American if you can buy Japanese?

Because the Japanese can't design their cars for crap( there are exceptions). Sure they may be reliable, but so have the GM's my family have owned. :D

If you like an appliance, sure go for the Corolla, Camry, Accord, Civic, ES, RX, etc. But, GM and Ford's designs are much better IMHO and their latest offerings are just as good as the Asian competition.
 
Dang. Not bad for a 30 year old car practically. Not knocking your preferences in vehicle. Just I've driven a Town Car and the thing floats. Along with zero power, etc. Vehicle needed to be shot 10 years ago. ;)

Well, the platform was updated heavily in 92, 98, 00, and 03.

Yeah, mine is a super plush Vic, so basically a town car, and your right. It does float, it has no power, and doesn't handle very well, but it'll still handle in am emergency situation just fine, though mine isn't so floaty as it has the PI suspension package. But, its a daily driver, so handling, power, and MPG don't matter to me lol. I want comfort and room.

Nah, then I wouldn't have been able to replace the 02 I totaled with the 2010 lol. Nor would I have my 500+ Whp Marauder.

Though I still doubt it will do well in that off side test when it will miss the frame and hit the vehicles soft spots.

I think your going off how GM builds their frames, in a bigass X in the front. Fords are a square in the front, so there isn't so much a " soft spot " in the front as some other BOF cars have. ( I did look up the crash test, it does very well in every test except for the side impact, but eh. a broken pelvis means I can play more Soldner and WoW )

And the only vehicles you will see me in having 560 hp is a CTS-V, camaro zl1, corvette zr1, and a Lamborghini Aventador.

Well, CTS V = GM
Camaro = Like a ****** version of the Mustang GT500?
Lambo = Yeah....I make very good money...but not that good lol
ZR1: Maybe? Used. But again, GM.

Yeah, maybe a marauder with that much power is silly, but its a sleeper for sure ;)

And I have had good luck with GM vehicles. Two Suburbans, an Equinox, and a Saturn Aura(my personal car). All have been reliable. The equinox is at 110,000 miles now at 7 years old, the current suburban is almost to 100,000 and 11 years old, and my car is at a grandma low of 28,000 at 6 years old.

I have not, the only GM vehicle I owned personally was a Seville STS I bought used when I got my first ' real 'job, blew a head gasket 2 months into it. Returned the car, got a refund ( was under the return policy, Didn't want another ). It was only a few years old as well, though I do hear those Northstar Motors are junk, so maybe it was just bad luck. It was enough to keep me away from GM permanent. My 02 Vic had 210,000 on it ( I used to travel a TON at my old company, I got mileage though ;0 ) when I wrecked it, never skipped a beat. The highest milage out of any car I've seen personally, was my Fathers Acura Legend, drove it to 310,000.

And curious, if you hate small cars why considering an M3? It's smaller than the Regal. Not knocking the M3 though as I would love one( especially an E92 M3). Just curious.

Before I bought the new Vic, I gave the M3 sedan a shot. Yes, it is a small car. I love the way it drives though, and while it is a small car, it doesn't FEEL like a small car.

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My general rule is if it's German - don't touch it, period. If it's American and under $50K - don't touch it. I suppose Mustang/Camaro are a bit of an exception but why buy American if you can buy Japanese?

My 01 Boxster has been VERY reliable, my Crown Vics and Marauder have been very reliable as well. What do you know, German and American!

Um, because most japanese cars are under powered eco boxes that I want nothing to do with?

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Because the Japanese can't design their cars for crap( there are exceptions). Sure they may be reliable, but so have the GM's my family have owned. :D

If you like an appliance, sure go for the Corolla, Camry, Accord, Civic, ES, RX, etc. But, GM and Ford's designs are much better IMHO and their latest offerings are just as good as the Asian competition.

Yeppers, I love my Vics/Marauder, and whatever Ford Product ( Maybe a BMW ), I buy next.

The only Japanese cars that aren't super cars I'd ever even consider would be the Accord Crosstour V6 4WD, had one as a rental, loved it. And the no longer made S2000 and MR2.
 
Well, CTS V = GM
Camaro = Like a ****** version of the Mustang GT500?
Lambo = Yeah....I make very good money...but not that good lol
ZR1: Maybe? Used. But again, GM.

What does Ford offer that goes against the CTS-V? Nothing because Lincoln's are all POS FWD based vehicles going after Acura and Lexus. :D

I respect the GT500. It's got insane power. It can take the ZL1 in the straights, but so far the ZL1 takes it on the track( better handling). Plus, the ZL1 can do it consistently. Where I believe it was Motortrend or Road&Track did a test where as each lap went by, the GT500 got slower and slower due to the brakes not being as good as the ZL1's and insufficient cooling.

Problem with my Lambo dream. Too damn expensive. :D

Again only way to own the ZR1 is used due to damn expensive( though not as much as Aventador :D).



I have not, the only GM vehicle I owned personally was a Seville STS I bought used when I got my first ' real 'job, blew a head gasket 2 months into it. Returned the car, got a refund ( was under the return policy, Didn't want another ). It was only a few years old as well, though I do hear those Northstar Motors are junk, so maybe it was just bad luck. It was enough to keep me away from GM permanent. My 02 Vic had 210,000 on it ( I used to travel a TON at my old company, I got mileage though ;0 ) when I wrecked it, never skipped a beat. The highest milage out of any car I've seen personally, was my Fathers Acura Legend, drove it to 310,000.

Yeah the early Northstars had their issues. But, the Small Block V8 is reliable. I would take a Small Block over any Ford V8 any day of the week.

Like I said earlier, I tend to be wary of used cars unless forced by budget. Did you know how well that Seville was maintained( knowing Cadillac's demographic back then, I doubt it since senior citizens don't have the money usually to maintain vehicles). Add poorly maintained+ Northstars issues, not surprised. But, if one bad engine is going to scare you away from GM, don't touch a Powerstroke. :p



Before I bought the new Vic, I gave the M3 sedan a shot. Yes, it is a small car. I love the way it drives though, and while it is a small car, it doesn't FEEL like a small car.

Oh yeah, I am sure the M3 is one hell of a vehicle to drive. I love driving my dads E90 335xi. So much torque at only 1500 RPM. :D Plus, the vehicle is planted to the road. Love tossing it around corners.


My 01 Boxster has been VERY reliable, my Crown Vics and Marauder have been very reliable as well. What do you know, German and American!

Have to admit though when German vehicle break, it's costly. My dads old E46 330xi was fairly reliable up to 80,000 miles when he gave it to my brother( which he has it to 140,000 miles and it is starting to break down. Just talked to him and he says it's almost getting time to replace the suspension). But, things like a pulley, water pump, and regular maintenance when it gets to that mileage were fairly expensive. It's why people lease and burn with the Germans especially Mercedes, BMW, and Audi so they can stay within the companies warranties and cost-free maintenance programs.


The only Japanese cars that aren't super cars I'd ever even consider would be the Accord Crosstour V6 4WD, had one as a rental, loved it. And the no longer made S2000 and MR2.

Just lost all credibility with me. :p Sure the crosstour has utility purposes, but like the Pontiac Aztek, it is beyond ugly. I mean burn it with fire ugly. Plus, I am not a big fan of Honda engines. Below 5000 RPM's, they are gutless.
 
If you like an appliance, sure go for the Corolla, Camry, Accord, Civic, ES, RX, etc. But, GM and Ford's designs are much better IMHO and their latest offerings are just as good as the Asian competition.

I wouldn't consider those Japanese cars as "appliances" when compared to GM's and Ford's cars. American cars are probably just as road worthy as anything else out on the market, but I don't see anything that really makes them stand out.

The only American car I'd buy would be a saab 9-3,9-5 :p
 
I prefer the trusty AWD of my Volvo S40 R-Design. Even though I went the cheap route and got Z rated all weather tires rather than a winter and summer set, with its Eibach lowering springs, sports rotors and pads and the PoleStar engine management software the thing eats other "sportier" cars for breakfast, especially in bad weather.
 
Give BMW a month. Rumor has it they're going to unveil a FWD car at the Paris motor show at the end of September.

:eek:

Not sure bout this september, but one thing is for sure the next 1series will be FWD.

Now all you Yanks can moan&whine about FWD as much as you want, atleast I can drive at a 100 miles (or a bit more) without having to worry bout them coppers :p In my puny Renault Clio :D
 
They only make the best cars in the world. What better reason to 'not touch' them :rolleyes:

Because according to him everyhing German is evil since we are still Nazis. Synchromesh is a card carrying German hater.
 
I've driven fast FWD cars, and sure they're fast. But they are they fun to mess around with? No.

Which ones, specifically?

Because I've had ridiculous amounts of fun in a VW Scirocco R-Line and MINI Cooper Ss in various forms. I rented a Camaro SS in a few months ago at SFO to drive the PCH.

I like to kick out the tail every once in a while and one of the things that really annoys me about the Countryman S I own now is the understeer but honestly, unless you're tracking your car, what business do you have driving your car that hard on public roads?

I probably would have had as much, if not more fun in the Cooper S because of it's superior handling in the twisties. And this is coming from a guy who's driven in Class N rallies in an Evo.
 
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