FTC Looking Into Impact of Apple's Sales Agreement With Amazon on Independent Resellers

[Kaibelf]

Monopoly regulations are to prevent unfair misuse of a market position - nothing to do with "rights" to sell. See AMD Intel suit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices,_Inc._v._Intel_Corp.
AMD has claimed that Intel engaged in unfair competition by offering rebates to Japanese PC manufacturers who agreed to eliminate or limit purchases of microprocessors made by AMD

Sure you could buy AMD, but you would't get a good deal on Intel CPUs - and that is monopolistic abuse.

In this case I think it could be seen as collusion between Apple and Amazon to further eachothers market share - and thus it's not necessary to prove a "right to sell", but rather to show that this prevents a fair and open market.

NB IANAL.

Apple's prices and requirements with Amazon are no different than they offer to other resellers, so the AMD example doesn't apply here. In fact, it's that hard price parity that upset so many legacy authorized resellers because they had no advantage at all, and the additional price breaks for large-volume deals are miniscule compared to other OEMs. The resellers with an actual sales force have an advantage for any larger sale as Amazon is a passive marketplace, but how many companies are buying $1M in MacBooks and how often?

The resellers in this article, however, seem to me to be upset that they are also also not allowed to ride a train using Apple's brand while passively sitting there selling virtually nothing compared to established resellers.

 

[gnomeisland]

Seriously the TFC is worried about this, but approves true predatory monopolies like Verison and Comcast? Unreal. Apple is not the only manufacturer of the products they sell. There are like products available, but those of us stuck in a FTC created Internet monopoly that is OK?

While I think this arrangement warrants looking into, I agree that anti-trust enforcing in this country is really whacked.

 

[tkukoc]

Call me when the current government figures out what they are doing instead of cherry picking. All this nonsense goes back to Apple not bowing down and putting a backdoor into their systems. And no i'm not sticking up for Apple and their practices.. but it's all cherry picked to damage their brand and shed a bad light on their management for political gain only. Apple being shady? No company is ever as good as they claim to be, there are always smoke and mirrors.

Oh but of course allow T-Mobile and Sprint to merge.. yes to Att and their nonsense too. You know cause prices will go down.. PLEASE... lol But Apple.. sorry Tariff shout outs daily and build in the states nonsense (because again prices go down when you build in the states nonsense apparently is what people think) along with putting backdoors in for us government officials who know all about tech.. Most of them have no clue how to use secure email servers, no matter what side of the isle you're on. Like I said.. someone give me a call when these crazies figure out what they actually want to do.

Can't wait for the next headline.. Apple and Amazon can't ________ because the ________ says so. Enter whatever product and government agency in those blanks.

 

[MauiPa]

And someone would buy a high tech device from "Charlie's refurbs"? comes with a spoken guarantee you can never hear, and we only use authentic (hmmmmahhah) parts.

Sorry, I wouldn't even buy a refurbed Samsung that was not from a certified reseller. There are things like warranties, part authentication, expertise in assembly, support, business continuity. should be a non-issue

 

[SuperMatt]

Apple should be sued for antitrust. Before I was able to sell used Macbooks on Amazon with no problems. Now I can't since I don't meet the volume requirements. There is no concern about counterfeit Macbooks on Amazon as it would be a very difficult product to counterfeit. This is pure greed on Apple's part.

Just sell through somebody other than Amazon. Why is everybody on the Amazon train anyway? They are basically just an online version of Costco.

 

[cube]

Just sell through somebody other than Amazon. Why is everybody on the Amazon train anyway? They are basically just an online version of Costco.

I think some people only buy from Amazon even if it's more expensive. This restriction does not seem like equal treatment.

 

[LizKat]

tbh the only place I buy Apple gear is Apple albeit often enough from the refurb/clearance shelves. It's what has worked best for my peace of mind.

 

[JGIGS]

I don't think Apple should be able to control anyone reselling used product as used but new or refurbished to me should be at Apple's discretion. It's their brand or am I missing something?

 

[cube]

tbh the only place I buy Apple gear is Apple albeit often enough from the refurb/clearance shelves. It's what has worked best for my peace of mind.

Amazon just needs to mark the authorized resellers properly.

 

[TComm]

Of course, this sounds a lot like Tim. Why give them the opportunity to pay less when we can charge much more? It is all about greed.

 

[Martin75]

So many problems with iPhones, there's at least $2.5 million worth of iPhones returned every 3 months.

That would make it only about 0.01% of Apple's iPhone sales (their iPhone revenue in Q3 2019 was $26 *billion*), so I would guess that the real number of returns is *way* higher than that. And your point is...?

 

[LizKat]

Amazon just needs to mark the authorized resellers properly.

Could be a lot easier posted than executed.

 

[cube]

Could be a lot easier posted than executed.

Amazon needs to do proper verification.

They could also forbid all Apple sellers from using commingled storage.

 

[BootsWalking]

The price of pushing the counterfeiters out.

When Amazon was full of them, pushing the "legit" small business resellers out, people wanted Apple to do something.

What were they supposed to do? Hand-vetting every single Amazon listing?

"You're legit, you're legit, you're legit and you're legit. You are not. Out."

People can still sell through their individual websites. They just can't sell through Amazon.

I assume, any brick-n-mortar mall in the US probably has similar rules and you can't sue yourself into a mall, can you?

Many companies plant the fear of counterfeiters into their customers psyche to steer them toward reseller channels which yield more profit for the company. Not saying counterfeiting doesn't happen but...

 

[M5RahuL]

Seriously the TFC is worried about this, but approves true predatory monopolies like Verison and Comcast? Unreal. Apple is not the only manufacturer of the products they sell. There are like products available, but those of us stuck in a FTC created Internet monopoly that is OK?

FTC, FCC, FDA.. all in cahoots with Big Businesses. Nothing more.

 

[cube]

It is not enough to mark something as Fulfilled by Amazon, but also that it is not commingled.

 

[Kaibelf]

Of course, this sounds a lot like Tim. Why give them the opportunity to pay less when we can charge much more? It is all about greed.

Apple's channel program existed long LONG ago when Steve was still quite alive.

 

[Aston441]

Well, I'm assuming Wal Mart vets every vendor that they resell. Apple has a review process for their apps.

I'm not sure why Amazon shouldn't have to review vendors that resell through them, particularly ones selling items approaching or exceeding $1,000.

If you are going to create a beast of a revenue machine, you should have the tools in place to vet the products you are selling.

THE CORE of the issue is Amazon's review system comingles all sellers of any item. This is where eBay is much different (and better).

**** amazon, I quit using them and don't miss it at all. I buy less stuff now and don't have to deal with **** products.

This is A VERY GOOD POINT.

There is so much scamming happening lately on Amazon and I can't believe I'm saying this, that I'm finding less fraud on eBay.

I'd guess that 70% or more of the reviews on Amazon today are fake.

A sad commentary on how awful and criminal so many people are today, from the lowest to the highest levels of society, world wide.

 

[Kaibelf]

Why would you need to be authorized by Apple to sell used Macs?

You're not, but this article isn't about people just selling used computers. They can do that on Facebook, Craigslist, eBay or whatever they want. But if you're claiming to sell properly refurbished products (which, by the way come with warranties) using parts certified to work by Apple instead of knock off trash, then you need to be authorized. It's no different from a car dealer selling a "Certified Pre-Owned" automobile. If they want to say that, they need to get the blessing of the manufacturer and prove they are using legit parts and maintained it correctly for the protection of the new owner. Otherwise, anyone could just patch up a totaled car, say it's the same, and then sell it.

If you want to trade as refurbed, legit Apple stuff, then comply with the longstanding T&Cs. If you can't do that, sell something else that is less restrictive. Apple doesn't have to let you trade on their name if you aren't willing to certify that your business is legitimate.

 

[Art Mark]

A used car lot can choose to sell what it wants. A Ford, a Subaru. I can't put my used car in their lot to sell just for fun? Right?

Monopoly regulations are to prevent unfair misuse of a market position - nothing to do with "rights" to sell. See AMD Intel suit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Micro_Devices,_Inc._v._Intel_Corp.
AMD has claimed that Intel engaged in unfair competition by offering rebates to Japanese PC manufacturers who agreed to eliminate or limit purchases of microprocessors made by AMD

Sure you could buy AMD, but you would't get a good deal on Intel CPUs - and that is monopolistic abuse.

In this case I think it could be seen as collusion between Apple and Amazon to further eachothers market share - and thus it's not necessary to prove a "right to sell", but rather to show that this prevents a fair and open market.

NB IANAL.

Good points. In this case it's just the 'Amazon' marketplace. Can an argument like this hold true for a single reseller/store/chain? I would guess there are lots and lots of ways to buy a used Mac. And that's what this is about, right? I'm not clear about that. It seems an odd focus given the fact that Apple is still a tiny player in the PC market overall. Their mobile platform gives them an illusion of being much bigger as does their marketing and profit because they choose to only play in a higher end game. But market share wise I think the Govt would have difficult arguments going after Apple in many cases as they are not dominant. Amazon is, I think, in online sales. But Wallmart is growing and has a far larger footprint in consumer dollars.
[doublepost=1564765367][/doublepost]

You're not, but this article isn't about people just selling used computers. They can do that on Facebook, Craigslist, eBay or whatever they want. But if you're claiming to sell properly refurbished products (which, by the way come with warranties) using parts certified to work by Apple instead of knock off trash, then you need to be authorized. It's no different from a car dealer selling a "Certified Pre-Owned" automobile. If they want to say that, they need to get the blessing of the manufacturer and prove they are using legit parts and maintained it correctly for the protection of the new owner. Otherwise, anyone could just patch up a totaled car, say it's the same, and then sell it.

If you want to trade as refurbed, legit Apple stuff, then comply with the longstanding T&Cs. If you can't do that, sell something else that is less restrictive. Apple doesn't have to let you trade on their name if you aren't willing to certify that your business is legitimate.

Good points. I understand it a bit better now. Thanks.

 

[Aston441]

I don't think Apple should be able to control anyone reselling used product as used but new or refurbished to me should be at Apple's discretion. It's their brand or am I missing something?

So if I refurbish my Ford or Toyota I can't sell it unless Big Auto gives me the OK?

I can only sell my used car if I do $2.5 mil in auto sales? That's insane.

 

[bsimpsen]

So many problems with iPhones, there's at least $2.5 million worth of iPhones returned every 3 months.

Per Apple's recent earnings report, iPhone revenue for the last three months was $26 billion. Your return rate would be 0.01% of sales. If true, that's possibly the lowest return rate for any product on Earth.

I do appreciate the irony of your forum name. Thanks for that.

 

[macduke]

They had to do this because so many people were selling fake chargers that can burn people to death.

 

[JetLaw]

Dear government:

Please stop helping.

Thank you,
Me

 

[LizKat]

Many companies plant the fear of counterfeiters into their customers psyche to steer them toward reseller channels which yield more profit for the company. Not saying counterfeiting doesn't happen but...

Yah well I purchase new Apple gear infrequently enough that I'll stick to the refurb shelves at the company.... and so I'll pass up the possible other-seller discount (and even the slight risk of being disappointed by dealing with a third party) . To each his own though, and I realize what works for me might not be great for someone with a big family and a lot of hardware to try to keep fairly current.