Full Laptop Refresh By Holidays?

[thunda32]

Anyone can buy any machine they want. I have no problem with it. I'm just curious why you would spend $3000 on a notebook that's complete overkill if you're not using "pro" apps? The standard MB, even with Core Duo, is an absolutely awesome machine for most people - I guess it all comes down expendable income.



Of course there are are exceptions, and I left room those by saying "chances are". As you said, you are most assuredly in the minority here, and that's certainly not to say your needs are less important. Merely that MOST of the voices of dissention on these forums come from people who either have no need for C2D (the brats I spoke of), or whose needs, like mine, are based largely on "Pro" design apps like Photoshop, which for the next 6 months will run better on G4/G5 processors than Intel.

I just get a kick out of the "I want a golden goose now daddy!" mentality from the people who are up-in-arms over having to wait for a processor that will make virtually no difference in their machine.

More importantly, the improved chipset allowing more RAM is the TRUE item that those of us with a clue are really waiting for. Increasing the max RAM and speeding up the system bus will do far more for the overall speed of the MBP than moving to C2D. That's a fact.

Personally I like the larger screen on the MBP and that is a big factor for me. I'm also a big fan of the casing as opposed to the standard MB. While I can probably make due with a MB I don't buy a new computer every year (this will be my first in 6 years, I typically just upgrade my PC) and my attitude is to get something that I know will last me for a long time. I may do some editing in the future so I could use the extra power eventually, just not right now.

I'm waiting for the new line because I don't believe in spending top dollar on old technology even if I don't need the new chip. I'm also hoping that we get larger standard ram and that certainly would make a difference for everyone I would think.

 

[cecildk9999]

Personally I like the larger screen on the MBP and that is a big factor for me. I'm also a big fan of the casing as opposed to the standard MB. While I can probably make due with a MB I don't buy a new computer every year (this will be my first in 6 years, I typically just upgrade my PC) and my attitude is to get something that I know will last me for a long time. I may do some editing in the future so I could use the extra power eventually, just not right now.

I'm waiting for the new line because I don't believe in spending top dollar on old technology even if I don't need the new chip. I'm also hoping that we get larger standard ram and that certainly would make a difference for everyone I would think.

I think that these are all really valid reasons for going with the 'pro' machine even if you aren't necessarily a pro user. The Macbooks are really nice, but if your laptop will be your only computer (or your only new computer for a long time), the nicer speakers, larger viewable screen area, and look are important factors. Also, knowing that I have the option to do more gaming or professional photo work is nice (I'm personally at the 'enthusiast' level for both right now ), rather than simply settling for a decent entry level machine. I don't know how my computing needs might change in 4 years, but in general, if you want to maximize your computer's life and your options, you should get something higher end.

 

[thunda32]

I think that these are all really valid reasons for going with the 'pro' machine even if you aren't necessarily a pro user. The Macbooks are really nice, but if your laptop will be your only computer (or your only new computer for a long time), the nicer speakers, larger viewable screen area, and look are important factors. Also, knowing that I have the option to do more gaming or professional photo work is nice (I'm personally at the 'enthusiast' level for both right now ), rather than simply settling for a decent entry level machine. I don't know how my computing needs might change in 4 years, but in general, if you want to maximize your computer's life and your options, you should get something higher end.

Exactly! I have a day job but I did go to film school so I will be using this as a writing tool. But by getting the pro I can also do my own work for smaller projects. It just affords you more options. Point is there are other reasons to buy the pro besides using it on a day to day basis for final cut pro, et al.

 

[clintob]

Exactly! I have a day job but I did go to film school so I will be using this as a writing tool. But by getting the pro I can also do my own work for smaller projects. It just affords you more options. Point is there are other reasons to buy the pro besides using it on a day to day basis for final cut pro, et al.

Fair enough. These are all perfectly valid reasons to buy a pro machine, and as I said, anyone is entitled to buy anything they want.

The screen resolution issue aside (as that's the most viable reason to upgrade), I do still think the other things you've mentioned are more excuses than reasons. We all (myself included) fall into the trap of shopping for machines based on what we might want to do with it at some point.

In all honesty, even if you do decide to tinker with some pro apps down the road, or do a little FCP editing here and there for personal or small freelance projects, etc, the MB will still be able to handle all of that without any real trouble. It's when you start using pro apps extensively or day-to-day that the increased power comes in handy.

Either way, it's never bad to have a better machine if you can afford it. So enjoy whatever you get! At the end of the day, both are fantastic notebooks.

 

[psychometry]

It has been so for a while now!

Yeah people were talking about this back before Photokina. It's really pretty pathetic that the link's still broken. Not to mention Apple has no easy way to submit feedback on a webpage.

 

[Soundburst]

Well i'm past my threashold time of buying now. (meaning i am now definately no matter what , waiting until January ((well unless they release Santa Rosa ridiculously early )) ).

Now that i've decided to wait until january i am really excited about the Keynote, because by then i will have even more money for iTV and a touchscreen iPod .

Just to confirm though , Santa Rosa IS intel's first Core-2-Duo FULL 64bit processor?

 

[gonnabuyamac]

Just to confirm though , Santa Rosa IS intel's first Core-2-Duo FULL 64bit processor?

I was under the impression that Merom was 64-bit, and that Santa Rosa just adds features to C2D sort of like a new Centrino. I could be wrong about that. Everything I've read thus far refers to Merom as a 64-bit processor.

 

[shecky]

Just to confirm though , Santa Rosa IS intel's first Core-2-Duo FULL 64bit processor?

santa rosa is a platform, not a processor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrino#Santa_Rosa_platform

 

[tarjan]

The great thing about santa rosa is that there are no guarantees we need to wait for it. Apple is more than capable of using a customized platform that has nothing to do with what will be generally available for the rest of the world.

 

[Butthead]

Anyone can buy any machine they want. I have no problem with it. I'm just curious why you would spend $3000 on a notebook that's complete overkill if you're not using "pro" apps? The standard MB, even with Core Duo, is an absolutely awesome machine for most people - I guess it all comes down expendable income.



Of course there are are exceptions, and I left room those by saying "chances are". As you said, you are most assuredly in the minority here, and that's certainly not to say your needs are less important. Merely that MOST of the voices of dissention on these forums come from people who either have no need for C2D (the brats I spoke of), or whose needs, like mine, are based largely on "Pro" design apps like Photoshop, which for the next 6 months will run better on G4/G5 processors than Intel.

I just get a kick out of the "I want a golden goose now daddy!" mentality from the people who are up-in-arms over having to wait for a processor that will make virtually no difference in their machine.

More importantly, the improved chipset allowing more RAM is the TRUE item that those of us with a clue are really waiting for. Increasing the max RAM and speeding up the system bus will do far more for the overall speed of the MBP than moving to C2D. That's a fact.

Hmm, I think I need to make one of my posts a 'sticky' just so we don't have to constantly rehash all the misinformation going on in this thread.

What's a fact, please provide links to authorities/benchmarks for the points being made? "Far" more, well I have not seen any benchmarks proving that, what percentage over just the C2D in the Napa platform (which is what you're going to get on any near term MBP update)? Has anandtech or some other site, gotten a hold of a prototype Santa Rosa motherboard, fitted with a Merom, and posted numbers; please provide links for such "FACTS", lol.

Again, the Santa Rosa platform, which consists of several parts, contains a chipset/memory controller called 'Crestline' (PM965) which supports a slightly higher max. bus speed of 800Mhz with DDR2 RAM. But it will not be available to any manufacturer until next year to release as a shipping product, please! Read my post, read the links for discussion of what the Santa Rosa plaform gives you beyond the current Napa chipset on which surely any C2D laptop announced in the next month will be based on. Sata Rosa is NEXT year, next spring, sorry.

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/2943835/

 

[erockerboy]

Ehhh... don't forget about us audio production whores. My PBook regularly chokes on even medium-sized Logic Pro sessions.

C2D!!!!!

 

[thunda32]

Ehhh... don't forget about us audio production whores. My PBook regularly chokes on even medium-sized Logic Pro sessions.

C2D!!!!!

I also dabble in sound design and initially I was going to convert my PC into a pro tools station after buying the MBP. What do you think about pro tools as opposed to other software that is mac based? Is logic pro much more functional than the included garage band software?

 

[mopppish]

Ehhh... don't forget about us audio production whores. My PBook regularly chokes on even medium-sized Logic Pro sessions.

C2D!!!!!

I can tell you from experience that my new CD Macbook hits about 20% of it's total power on a Logic Pro session that my ibook choked on and my imac G5 went to about 50% on. When you consider that C2D will yield about 10% of an improvement on that (meaning that 20% on a CD would hit about 18% on a C2D), you realize that it's really not that pertinent to wait for C2D.

P.S. I just bought this Macbook 2 days ago because I didn't feel like waiting. I COULD have waited, but I'd rather not stress out about "when's it gonna come out?"
Not even for another day. It's not worth it.

 

[dkoralek]

Hmm, I think I need to make one of my posts a 'sticky' just so we don't have to constantly rehash all the misinformation going on in this thread.

What's a fact, please provide links to authorities/benchmarks for the points being made? "Far" more, well I have not seen any benchmarks proving that, what percentage over just the C2D in the Napa platform (which is what you're going to get on any near term MBP update)? Has anandtech or some other site, gotten a hold of a prototype Santa Rosa motherboard, fitted with a Merom, and posted numbers; please provide links for such "FACTS", lol.

Again, the Santa Rosa platform, which consists of several parts, contains a chipset/memory controller called 'Crestline' (PM965) which supports a slightly higher max. bus speed of 800Mhz with DDR2 RAM. But it will not be available to any manufacturer until next year to release as a shipping product, please! Read my post, read the links for discussion of what the Santa Rosa plaform gives you beyond the current Napa chipset on which surely any C2D laptop announced in the next month will be based on. Sata Rosa is NEXT year, next spring, sorry.

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/2943835/

and I would be willing to wager that Apple will not produce a single laptop with the entire santa rosa platform (just as I doubt that even the MB, which is the only one that could, has the full napa platform. Napa and santa rosa are both centrino (or the equivalent if they rename it to something other than centrino duo). The chip set that comes with Napa, I believe apple does use (the mobile 945). It is unclear what they might use with the MBP at this point. They did not move to the chipset that is included in Napa 64 in the iMac, but it is possible that this will be included (or a custom chipset) in the MBP this year. It won't include the faster front side bus, nor will it support more than 4 gig RAM, but it should offer a bit more 64-bit usability. Santa Rosa, just like Napa is more than a combination of chipset and processor. Apple hasn't been keen on jumping on the centrino bandwagon yet (or viiv for the mini, although drm issues probably drive that one), so I don't know why we expect to see a santa rosa platform mbp. Some of the parts of santa rosa (crestilne, especially), sure. Because of that, there is no reason to not believe that Apple may introduce other components of santa rosa prior to the release of santa rosa (the fact that the imac ships with a predraft n wireless card is an example of this).

cheers.

 

[dkoralek]

I was under the impression that Merom was 64-bit, and that Santa Rosa just adds features to C2D sort of like a new Centrino. I could be wrong about that. Everything I've read thus far refers to Merom as a 64-bit processor.

correct. some of those features will be useful, though (crestline, for example).

cheers.

 

[psychometry]

I also dabble in sound design and initially I was going to convert my PC into a pro tools station after buying the MBP. What do you think about pro tools as opposed to other software that is mac based? Is logic pro much more functional than the included garage band software?

More functional, more fully-featured, more professional. But most importantly, more expensive. Garage Band is for just that--garage bands.

 

[thunda32]

More functional, more fully-featured, more professional. But most importantly, more expensive. Garage Band is for just that--garage bands.

Is logic pro the standard for audio on mac? I thought they have pro tools for mac too but maybe I'm wrong (still so new to macs).

 

[Sopranino]

Is logic pro the standard for audio on mac? I thought they have pro tools for mac too but maybe I'm wrong (still so new to macs).

For professional audio on the Mac there are several high quality options: [in no specific order]

1) As mentioned-Logic Pro
2) Digital Performer from MOTU
3) Ableton Live (although this is aimed more at live use rather than as a DAW)
4) Pro Tools (this is the app that seems to be the defacto standard within pro studios)
5) Ardour (this is still in beta development but shows a lot of promise)
6) Final Cut Studio also has a decent set up but I don't know much about it.

I've had the opportunity to use most of the above at one time or the other and they all have their strengths depending on what it is that you do.

Sopranino

 

[thunda32]

For professional audio on the Mac there are several high quality options: [in no specific order]

1) As mentioned-Logic Pro
2) Digital Performer from MOTU
3) Ableton Live (although this is aimed more at live use rather than as a DAW)
4) Pro Tools (this is the app that seems to be the defacto standard within pro studios)
5) Ardour (this is still in beta development but shows a lot of promise)
6) Final Cut Studio also has a decent set up but I don't know much about it.

I've had the opportunity to use most of the above at one time or the other and they all have their strengths depending on what it is that you do.

Sopranino

Well my focus would be on small project sound design for film. I did a good deal of sound design in film school (we used vegas on pc and then transitioned to the standard, as you noted, pro tools when I graduated). So that is where I would lean toward but the logic pro seems intruiging too.

 

[cecildk9999]

P.S. I just bought this Macbook 2 days ago because I didn't feel like waiting. I COULD have waited, but I'd rather not stress out about "when's it gonna come out?"
Not even for another day. It's not worth it.

Hear hear; sometimes the anticipation will drive us crazy (maybe it's already pushed a few posters here over the edge ), and once you have the new machine in front of you, it's better to just enjoy it than think: "How soon until the next one comes out?" or else "How long will it be until this machine gets replaced by the new model on the market?"

 

[suwandy]

Hear hear; sometimes the anticipation will drive us crazy (maybe it's already pushed a few posters here over the edge ), and once you have the new machine in front of you, it's better to just enjoy it than think: "How soon until the next one comes out?" or else "How long will it be until this machine gets replaced by the new model on the market?"

Yeah, that is very true for those who have bought it, don't regret over it or you'll hate your machine one day.

If you still can wait, join the club and we'll be the last to laugh

 

[thunda32]

Yeah, that is very true for those who have bought it, don't regret over it or you'll hate your machine one day.

If you still can wait, join the club and we'll be the last to laugh

Speaking of waiting. Anyone thinking about waiting for Leopard to be included (assuming sometime early next year)? Just wondering how much of an upgrade it would be, especially to switchers like me.

 

[yidakee]

I can tell you from experience that my new CD Macbook hits about 20% of it's total power on a Logic Pro session that my ibook choked on and my imac G5 went to about 50% on. When you consider that C2D will yield about 10% of an improvement on that (meaning that 20% on a CD would hit about 18% on a C2D), you realize that it's really not that pertinent to wait for C2D.

P.S. I just bought this Macbook 2 days ago because I didn't feel like waiting. I COULD have waited, but I'd rather not stress out about "when's it gonna come out?"
Not even for another day. It's not worth it.

It is pertinent.

But nevertheless, good choice! Congrats! I am waiting for the new C2D to come out for several reasons. One would be definite benchmarks for audio "renderings", vst implementation yadd yadda yadda... lets not forget 64bit software is around the corner. For any sort of app, this new implementation, even if its 6 months away for consumer reallity will burst core2 into the stratosphere! So that alone is one major factor to invest. Yeah, current apps might get a 2% push with c2d, but when 64bits come round, this same machine will smoke! Buying new software will definitely feel like upgrading the machine too!

The other is MBP will drop price. I have no real need for a C2D, but I might just get one for the longevity factor. This is because it is likely (I am not in the UK, but it doesn't mention otherwise... they say ALL students...) I will get a MB free... http://www.saeuk.com/london/X281.php - if this is true for me, many-a-audio-orgasms I will be achieving investing that doe on a pair of mackies hr824 - or, if the specs are really worth it (ram expandability, mem speed, ports, video etc) get a core2. I am a bit undecisive. I do have a lot of experience, but want to get into post-prod for film too, so I am still thinking about if it is really worth core2.
Really, being able to fit as much ram as you can on any sort of machine, for me, is THE most important factor.

so I will sell it plus my asus CD and will buy a MBP + new monitors, or core2, make do with my current less pro monitors, but hey, still got lots to learn anywhoo before I can truely usem them mackies right...

 

[Next Tuesday]

Fair enough. These are all perfectly valid reasons to buy a pro machine, and as I said, anyone is entitled to buy anything they want.

The screen resolution issue aside (as that's the most viable reason to upgrade), I do still think the other things you've mentioned are more excuses than reasons. We all (myself included) fall into the trap of shopping for machines based on what we might want to do with it at some point.

In all honesty, even if you do decide to tinker with some pro apps down the road, or do a little FCP editing here and there for personal or small freelance projects, etc, the MB will still be able to handle all of that without any real trouble. It's when you start using pro apps extensively or day-to-day that the increased power comes in handy.

Either way, it's never bad to have a better machine if you can afford it. So enjoy whatever you get! At the end of the day, both are fantastic notebooks.

I dont really need a MBP but i cant stand the 13.3" screen and i hate the macbook keyboard. So therefore im most likely going to get a 15" MBP with C2D.

 

[n00bst3r]

Ok guys over the last week I really started to realize that waiting for a revised MBP was a waste of time. If two weeks ago, the new MBPs had come out, Apple would have about $3200 (between upgrades and Apple Care) of my money right now. Then slowly I started to see the light. Why spend so much money so I have to hassle with Parallels to run Windows just so I could have a pretty computer? I started to look around at stores and was amazed at the prices I was seeing for C2D PC notebooks. So I got online and started CTO different systems and was utterly shell shocked! I could not believe that for 9 months Apple had me so jaded that I was willing to spend 320 hours worth of hard earned money for a mediocre notebook.

Today I ordered this:

- HP Pavilion dv6000t CTO NB
- FREE Upgrade to Genuine Windows XP Media Center!!
- Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo processor T7200 (2.00 GHz)
- 15.4" WXGA Widescreen (1280x800)
- 256MB NVIDIA(R) GeForce(R) Go 7400
- HP IMPRINT Finish + Microphone + Webcam
- 2.0GB DDR2 SDRAM (2x1024MB)
- 120 GB 5400 RPM SATA Hard Drive
- LightScribe Super Multi 8X DVD+/-RW w/Double Layer
- Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network w/Bluetooth
- No TV Tuner w/remote control
- 12 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
- Microsoft(R) Works/Money
- HP Mobile Remote Control

The only thing the MBP has on this system is the screen, and the processor is a step forward and a step back.

How much did I pay for all this?

$1668.63

Including Tax and Shipping...

Oh yea and I have a $50 mail-in rebate so that knocks it down to $1618.63 + postage(if you want to get technical)

I'm sure that paying well over a grand for Mac OSX is totally worth it.. /sarcasm.