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Full Laptop Refresh By Holidays?
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I do not completely disagree with you. I understand what you're saying. Nonetheless, it's a good thread, not too many pages, and worth the read (IMO).maverick808 said:
17" Replacement from September
A buddy of mine had to send his MBP in for repair - after 2 weeks, they told him that the parts were on backorder. He asked for a new one and they declined saying parts would be available before a new machine...
Last week he talked to the "right" person and they agreed to ship him a brand new one...I asked him to check and see when it was built and here's it what it came back with...
Model introduced: 2006
Production year: 2006
Production week: 35 (September)
Production number: 2918 (within this week)
I'm still looking towards next week as the release...
A buddy of mine had to send his MBP in for repair - after 2 weeks, they told him that the parts were on backorder. He asked for a new one and they declined saying parts would be available before a new machine...
Last week he talked to the "right" person and they agreed to ship him a brand new one...I asked him to check and see when it was built and here's it what it came back with...
Model introduced: 2006
Production year: 2006
Production week: 35 (September)
Production number: 2918 (within this week)
I'm still looking towards next week as the release...
Judging by the direction this thread has gone, I'm guess people here are really getting frustrated. While I prefer OSX to Windows, I do think many Mac users need to lay off the Apple KoolAid. Windows is a pretty darn good OS if the user has a clue what they're doing. The Windows world is a much larger and more treacherous place... Any new purchase of a windows system should involve the user purging the system when they first take it out of the box and install a fresh copy of Windows without all the extra bloat and shovel-ware that most sytems come with. ...That would make a great Mac vs. PC commercial, don't ya think? Kinda like the one where the PC guy was stuck in two boxes...
As for current MB/MBP pricing - it outright sucks. Every component in these systems has dropped in price over the last several months and the prices are nowhere near fair for what you get. Apple is charging more to upgrade from an 80GB HDD to a 120GB HDD than what a retail-packaged 120GB drive costs from any reputable vendor, for example. OTOH, there's a huge surplus of refurbished units out there that come with all the same benefits of a new Mac and will save you 15% or so on the purchase. While the refurbs may be still somewhat overpriced compared to a comparable PC, I do feel the ability to run OSX on the same system (legally and fully supported) is worth the premium. I know Apple is in the habit of not adjusting prices until they ship updated products, but now that they have jumped into the Intel PC world, they will have to make some changes. It may take some more time for them to adjust, seeing how they're on a roll right now and their products are selling like crazy, but I'm sure the day will come that they have to be a little more flexible.
All that said, looking at current MBP offerings from a business point of view, they're still not that bad. Like any other tool, the real value is not in the initial purchase cost, but the return on your investment. An MBP configured with Final Cut Studio is a formidable piece of hardware and any pro user should be able to make it pay for itself in a matter of a few days or weeks. ...If not, then they probably bought the wrong tool for the job. In the grand scheme of all things, these notebooks aren't all that expensive.
As for current MB/MBP pricing - it outright sucks. Every component in these systems has dropped in price over the last several months and the prices are nowhere near fair for what you get. Apple is charging more to upgrade from an 80GB HDD to a 120GB HDD than what a retail-packaged 120GB drive costs from any reputable vendor, for example. OTOH, there's a huge surplus of refurbished units out there that come with all the same benefits of a new Mac and will save you 15% or so on the purchase. While the refurbs may be still somewhat overpriced compared to a comparable PC, I do feel the ability to run OSX on the same system (legally and fully supported) is worth the premium. I know Apple is in the habit of not adjusting prices until they ship updated products, but now that they have jumped into the Intel PC world, they will have to make some changes. It may take some more time for them to adjust, seeing how they're on a roll right now and their products are selling like crazy, but I'm sure the day will come that they have to be a little more flexible.
All that said, looking at current MBP offerings from a business point of view, they're still not that bad. Like any other tool, the real value is not in the initial purchase cost, but the return on your investment. An MBP configured with Final Cut Studio is a formidable piece of hardware and any pro user should be able to make it pay for itself in a matter of a few days or weeks. ...If not, then they probably bought the wrong tool for the job. In the grand scheme of all things, these notebooks aren't all that expensive.
mopppish said:
Wow.... that is GREAT news. Thx for posting!! (As if I needed ANOTHER reason to jones for a shiny new MBP.....)
No question you're right, the C2D represents an incremental improvement over the current models.... the thing is, I just can't stomach the idea of dropping $3k on a new 17" MBP while the MacRumors terror threat level is still at "Don't Buy". Arrrgh!
Just because it is a PC does not mean that it is a windows machine. I could install linux on it just fine and then the Mac side looses the spyware / virus battle instantly. Or I could install BSD which is what OSX is...and then what? you have a equal machine with equal operating systems and the mac cost more.
I am still going to get a macbook pro when the c2d versions come out, but to be politically correct, a "windows machine" is not the right name
I am still going to get a macbook pro when the c2d versions come out, but to be politically correct, a "windows machine" is not the right name
adiosk8 said:
Yep... But then again, half the point of using OSX is for the available software. Kinda like Windows, the only real reasons to use Windows is the convenience factor and available software. Running Linux (or BSD) dramatically cuts the available software selection... This still works fine for many, but is completely out of the question for others. There's not much of anything on Linux that can even come close to Final Cut Studio or Adobe's production bundles. Often, Linux may be out of the question for many commercial or pro users because their client base forces them to use certain applications even though an equivalent Linux solution may exist. Many high-end applications have migrated to Linux, so users doing 3D graphics and CAD will usually be OK. ...I do a lot of 3D and we run some Linux workstations and one Linux server here. They're great once you have them running, but playing the game of finding/waiting for drivers or picking hardware based on what is supported gets a little old at times. Linux isn't going to find its way into mainstream, mass-user acceptance until they can greatly simplify its use and installation of drivers/software. Asking Joe Average "I don't know what a kernel is, much less why I would want to compile one" Computer User to recompile their Linux kernel when installing new audio drivers is a bit of a stretech. Granted, many of the new installation managers and setup tools are pretty user friendly, but the convenience level is nowhere near that of OSX or even Windows.
AppliedVisual said:
Ubuntu is fixing a lot of this, easiest thing I have ever installed. Ever hear of crossover for mac? well its been out on Linux for a long time and it allows and supports native windows programs and/or you could run VMware and run windows just like paraells. With Wine(what crossover is based on) I could play counter strike source on Linux natively without almost any slowdown on game play or graphics at all. So to the point of anything you can run any windows editing program on nix, or you can install one of the x86 osx ports to run on a PC (but we wont include that into this argument )
For those are you who are interested in these sorts of things, both the Apple UK and Apple UK HE (for personal use) stores are now showing the entire MBP line ready to ship in 24 Hrs. This is down from the 2, then 3 day shipping times shown over the last couple of weeks. Make of this what you will.
As long as this is the case:
But I do agree with you. There's no way I would buy a MBP right now. (That's why I'm here!) But, to be honest, even if the price came down I wouldn't buy it (though I'm sure some would). There are other ugrades I'm hoping will be included in the new C2D MBP...
There's no reason for this to happen:AppliedVisual said:
It seems to me that people will have to hit them in the pocketbook and stop buying before there's a reason for them to amend their ways.AppliedVisual said:
But I do agree with you. There's no way I would buy a MBP right now. (That's why I'm here!) But, to be honest, even if the price came down I wouldn't buy it (though I'm sure some would). There are other ugrades I'm hoping will be included in the new C2D MBP...
thunda32 said:
Logic Pro is to Garageband as Marvin Gaye is to William Hung. If you really are a "dabbler" though, GB just might get the job done for ya. Its featureset is a fraction of Logic's, but that's not to say that you can't work with it. It's hard for me to be objective b/c I've been a Logic guy for so long that whenever I play with GB, it feels like I'm trying to make music with a Fisher Price xylophone.
As far as ProTools goes..... it's a great app but is conceptually different from Logic. PT is more for straight recording/multitracking whereas Logic is more of a composition/musicmaking tool. They're both great apps, it just depends on what your goals are.
the price difference
Also don't forget about the extra stuff you get with a MBP to justify the price difference.
I mean the Ambient light sensor, Motion sensors to protect your HD, Backlit Keyboard, integrated Isight Camera, Lots of !useful! preinstalled software (no preinstalled spyware ;-) ), Magsafe connector, Beautiful looks, UltraSlim Design, ...
But I also agree that the MBP is way too overpriced now. The price should have dropped over the course of the year.
I also hope they will be introduced next week since I'm a student! My mom is getting pissed off at times... "You still don't have a laptop?!?" I'm studying New Media Design so I really need one... I just can't pay up $2600 for a MBP knowing it will be updated! Hopefully I'll get my work done on my G4 or Winblows PC for the time being.
Also don't forget about the extra stuff you get with a MBP to justify the price difference.
I mean the Ambient light sensor, Motion sensors to protect your HD, Backlit Keyboard, integrated Isight Camera, Lots of !useful! preinstalled software (no preinstalled spyware ;-) ), Magsafe connector, Beautiful looks, UltraSlim Design, ...
But I also agree that the MBP is way too overpriced now. The price should have dropped over the course of the year.
I also hope they will be introduced next week since I'm a student! My mom is getting pissed off at times... "You still don't have a laptop?!?" I'm studying New Media Design so I really need one... I just can't pay up $2600 for a MBP knowing it will be updated! Hopefully I'll get my work done on my G4 or Winblows PC for the time being.
ColeSear said:
Anyone else have an opinion on waiting for Leopard? I'm usually wary of buying the first shipments of a production line anyhow (new mbp). At this point if they release them next month I may just wait for January for the new OSX (would mbps ship with leopard in january or months later?) .
I'm just not sure how much of a jump it will be from the current OS. I know when microsoft puts out a new OS its a huge jump. What's the norm for apple?
Appreciate the input everyone!
SiCbe said:
FINALLY!! Someone who mentioned the the glaring hole in the "my PC is cheaper" argument.
Macs have the intangible "cool" factor, the magsafe, and all that stuff that's subjective. Agreed. But the MOST important thing people ignore is that all Macs ship standard with the entire iLife suite! There are 4 incredibly useful, well designed apps, and they actual integrate into the entire OS seemlessly. (and that's not including iTunes, since that's free).
Something comparable to the iLife suite on a PC (which doesn't exist, but let's give third parties the benefit of the doubt) will run you easily $500-$600, and that still doesn't account for the fact that it's all integrated into the OS in a useful productive way.
Enjoy your craptops. Me and my koolaid-stained lips will stick with the better machine.
Way back when the iMac was first upgraded to C2D and everyone was thinking that the MBP would be right around the corner, I was ready to buy.thunda32 said:
But the wait has caused me to re-evaluate and I do think that I'm going to wait for both Leopard and iLive '07 to be released. I always end up upgrading the OS (maybe not right away, but certainly within the first couple of updates) and so waiting will save me $$.
At least this is the way I'm leaning now.
Just some random musings...
I find it interesting that, poking around the Dell site (among others), they seem to be putting the C2D chip in their lower end laptops - the more expensive ones are still running Core Duo, or even other varieties of Centrino. There's gotta be a reason for that.
Comparing that particular HP laptop people are flaming/praising to the Mac - I do hope the purchaser of the HP ends up being happy with his purchase. However this sort of comparison is really simplistic on so many levels. Even if we completely exclude Macs from the discussion, there are so many things that go into the cost of a laptop. There's a reason some of the really nice Vaios are 3K+, while Dell might sell particular machines that seem similarly spec'ed for under 1K (or, for that matter, even just comparing one line of Dells to another). Things like build quality. It's also the engineering that goes into getting a really sleek laptop (e.g. a Mac or some Sonys) versus a brick (e.g. most Dells or HP laptops I've lugged around). Factors like weight - I once bought an Inspiron that "weighed 6.6 pounds". Turns out that was the weight WITHOUT the power brick and WITH a plastic insert in place of the CD/DVD drive.
Personally, I think it's obvious (as others have noted) that Apple certainly has to learn the lesson of the PC makers, and either start bumping processor speeds more quickly or else dropping prices between upgrade cycles. But I also tend to believe that some of the posters here that are saying "oh, yeah, I was gonna buy a Mac but now I'm getting a Toshiba" (or whatever) are possibly being disingenuous. It's not like we can verify that any particular person isn't just B.S.ing for the heck of it.
I find it interesting that, poking around the Dell site (among others), they seem to be putting the C2D chip in their lower end laptops - the more expensive ones are still running Core Duo, or even other varieties of Centrino. There's gotta be a reason for that.
Comparing that particular HP laptop people are flaming/praising to the Mac - I do hope the purchaser of the HP ends up being happy with his purchase. However this sort of comparison is really simplistic on so many levels. Even if we completely exclude Macs from the discussion, there are so many things that go into the cost of a laptop. There's a reason some of the really nice Vaios are 3K+, while Dell might sell particular machines that seem similarly spec'ed for under 1K (or, for that matter, even just comparing one line of Dells to another). Things like build quality. It's also the engineering that goes into getting a really sleek laptop (e.g. a Mac or some Sonys) versus a brick (e.g. most Dells or HP laptops I've lugged around). Factors like weight - I once bought an Inspiron that "weighed 6.6 pounds". Turns out that was the weight WITHOUT the power brick and WITH a plastic insert in place of the CD/DVD drive.
Personally, I think it's obvious (as others have noted) that Apple certainly has to learn the lesson of the PC makers, and either start bumping processor speeds more quickly or else dropping prices between upgrade cycles. But I also tend to believe that some of the posters here that are saying "oh, yeah, I was gonna buy a Mac but now I'm getting a Toshiba" (or whatever) are possibly being disingenuous. It's not like we can verify that any particular person isn't just B.S.ing for the heck of it.
SiCbe said:
lol. Yeah, all this was mentioned in the I referred to earlier. I was just a) trying to keep on topic, and b) trying to avoid restating what had already been said.clintob said:
But they're good points! I think now it all boils down to whether or not the current price of the MBP is worth the same $$ they were charging for it 9 months ago. For some, it must be b/c they're still selling 'em. For me, no.
erockerboy said:
That would give credence to why Pro Tools is the industry standard then. Sound design has much more to do with multitracking than composition. I'll have to look into PT a bit more although I know it is very expensive (not to mention their website is a little beyond me).
I've said this before...
Everyone keeps saying you need to factor in x, y and z to the cost of the MBP, and makes are worth it because of the extras. Regardless of all that, I'm sure everyone here expects the NEW C2D MBPs to be the same price as the current models.
Let's say the average price of the current MBPs is $2,800. Either the CURRENT MBPs are indeed worth $2,800, or NEW MBPs that could be released tomorrow with C2D in them, larger hard-drives, and other new/better goodies are worth $2,800.
So which is it? Either you have to admit the current MBP is overpriced, or you have to truely believe that the pricing of the current MBPs is a totally fair deal and that the new MBPs will cost MORE than the current ones!!! Does anyone really think that? That the new MBP models with C2D will be say $3,300 for the mid-range model?
Everyone keeps saying you need to factor in x, y and z to the cost of the MBP, and makes are worth it because of the extras. Regardless of all that, I'm sure everyone here expects the NEW C2D MBPs to be the same price as the current models.
Let's say the average price of the current MBPs is $2,800. Either the CURRENT MBPs are indeed worth $2,800, or NEW MBPs that could be released tomorrow with C2D in them, larger hard-drives, and other new/better goodies are worth $2,800.
So which is it? Either you have to admit the current MBP is overpriced, or you have to truely believe that the pricing of the current MBPs is a totally fair deal and that the new MBPs will cost MORE than the current ones!!! Does anyone really think that? That the new MBP models with C2D will be say $3,300 for the mid-range model?
Manic Mouse said:
Its not just the operating system that is different, the physical computer is much better. For example, the level of industrial design in the MBPs and the little features like the MagSafe and the Sudden Motion Sensor.
P.S. Vista is going to be a lot more expensive to upgrade than Leopard. I wouldn't even bother with the Home version of Vista.
Zic said:
There will be NO UPDATE in England, Germany, Australia, the US, whatever else online stores that suggest "1-3 days." All this bogus, palmreading into Apple's rollout plans?? As we know, fruitless.
Nothing until Next January 2007. You heard it hear first.
Useful information? No, but who says repetition ever gets through to those suffering from obsessive compulsive disorder...
heheh, the best part of this thread is the mouse poster posting "come on, the water's fine, Vista isn't that bad". No doubt part of the $1 billion vista marketing campaign seeping in.
Looking at the recent vista review videos that are out, the interface looks like engineer vomit after a particularly rough night of pasta and hard liquor. And this is Windows, folks, how it will be for the many, many years. X by then will be far out in the distance.
AppliedVisual, what are you going on about? Using a Mac because of the software? It's a completely different experience than Windows or Linux. Having installed XP on an iMac box, it's just shocking the constant alert dialogs that pop up, as if the entire system is geared toward simpletons who will only react to something popping up into their face. It's almost like being attacked, like a first person shooter game. It's great for folks whose mind requires constant intervention, but mac users can live without the constant need for drama. And Linux -- it's something for gearhead geeks. Similar to constantly working on your own car.
I don't know how much longer I can wait for the MBP. It'll be the first time since the //e that I'm ordering at the launch date.
Looking at the recent vista review videos that are out, the interface looks like engineer vomit after a particularly rough night of pasta and hard liquor. And this is Windows, folks, how it will be for the many, many years. X by then will be far out in the distance.
AppliedVisual, what are you going on about? Using a Mac because of the software? It's a completely different experience than Windows or Linux. Having installed XP on an iMac box, it's just shocking the constant alert dialogs that pop up, as if the entire system is geared toward simpletons who will only react to something popping up into their face. It's almost like being attacked, like a first person shooter game. It's great for folks whose mind requires constant intervention, but mac users can live without the constant need for drama. And Linux -- it's something for gearhead geeks. Similar to constantly working on your own car.
I don't know how much longer I can wait for the MBP. It'll be the first time since the //e that I'm ordering at the launch date.
Maybe I'm missing something...but I don't think anyone here would disagree with you on that.maverick808 said: