Full Laptop Refresh By Holidays?

[rand0m3r]

good point there Detektiv-Pinky. i'm an example of the person you described that will just keep waiting each tuesday until it arrives. and since i've waited so long now, one or two wks isn't much more i might aswell just wait. had apple dropped the price of the macbook about a month or so ago i might've given up the wait. but yeah, there is no way in the world i will be paying the original price of the macbook when i could've been using it for the last half a yr or so for the same price.

 

[cecildk9999]

In my rabid anticipation of the release of a C2D MBP (hopefully with a full refresh) I went to the store to check out the CD MBPs once again (along with some other stuff).

The 15.4" model MBP was there and so I played around with it for a little while. To my dismay it was probably about 100 degrees (F) on the top side and about 140 degrees (F) on the bottom side. Also, it had this strange buzzing noise coming from it during idling. The idling noise would go away as I moved the cursor around, but WTF?

I'm interested in switching because I'm looking for build quality... so this experience doesn't sit well with me. How does everything inside the case not melt (figuratively) together? And how can it sustain that kind of heat over several years without completely breaking down? And whats with that buzzing noise?

I'm looking to switch here in a couple weeks. Help me warm my cold feet (also a metaphor).

I can't attest to what might have caused the buzzing sound (you may just have gotten the bad Apple out of the bunch, so to speak), but my experience with the mbp is not as bad as people complain about. I don't think it runs much hotter than my old PB, and there are some useful apps out there that let you control the fan speed (not sure how this impacts the life of the fans, but you can shave 5-10 degrees off the operating temperature according to some testimonials).

I'm guessing that the update will have some minor changes to address the heat issue in both models, at least to some degree. I think that the random shutdown syndrome for the MBs was heat expansion related, and it may have happened for a limited number of pro models too. And I'm not an engineer or really tech saavy, but I don't see the machine 'melting down' in a few years' time unless you really stack the cards against it (like wrapping it in a blanket before starting to work in Aperture ). It may get hot, but it's still actively dissipating that heat through the case and with the fans, and while we'll notice the difference (maybe up to 20 degrees hotter?), I don't think that this alone would compromise a system.

Sorry I can't give you a more tech-specific answer, but I think the heat problems are manageable; I would say that if you get the revision, put it through it's paces fast and early; if it melts down, at least it's under warranty .

 

[Manic Mouse]

heheh, the best part of this thread is the mouse poster posting "come on, the water's fine, Vista isn't that bad". No doubt part of the $1 billion vista marketing campaign seeping in.

Looking at the recent vista review videos that are out, the interface looks like engineer vomit after a particularly rough night of pasta and hard liquor. And this is Windows, folks, how it will be for the many, many years. X by then will be far out in the distance.

Yes, I said that Vista is actually pretty nice. I MUST be on the MS payroll, eh?

I've been running various versions of Vista for over six months. It's become a very stable, fast (on my system) and nice OS. Is there anything particularly wrong with that? Does it offend your Apple Koolaid?

Now this has become completely off topic, the original point was that current MBP's are a little expensive for what they are and I think we all (including Apple) can agree with that or else there would be no point releasing new models.

EDIT: And I'm going to come out and say it: I think MBP's are overpriced compared to the rest of the Apple line. It's almost as if Apple think that by calling it a "Pro" machine they can charge an extra 20%. The MacBook is great value and what I intend to buy. I could do with a GPU since I like to play games, but I don't particularly feel like paying a grand (compared to a MB) for an X1600. The rest of the MBP features I don't really care about: A slightly bigger screen and backlit keyboard don't make that extra cost any more palatable.

Does anyone else think that the difference between the MB and MBP doesn't justify the price difference between the machines? And when you compare the MBP to the iMac it's nearly twice as expensive for the same specs, yet both use the same parts (except HDD). The MBP seems to be a ripoff to me, you get much better value with a MB or iMac.

 

[DRewPi]

MB which is the official rumor date ???

What do you think ???

24th ??? 31th ??? 7th of nov ??? I'll go for the 24th of oct.

Well only time will tell .. but if any one as some kind of info ............drop it in !!!!

I think apple should have released a new entry laptop macbook running a C2D at 1.66ghz or 1.83ghz to gap in the space time between the two releases.

I know ... that the upper ships C2D like 2.0ghz or 2.16 or 2.33ghz are not available in next two weeks for whatever manufacturer !!!

So just let's wait.....

 

[cecildk9999]

Does anyone else think that the difference between the MB and MBP doesn't justify the price difference between the machines? And when you compare the MBP to the iMac it's nearly twice as expensive for the same specs, yet both use the same parts (except HDD). The MBP seems to be a ripoff to me, you get much better value with a MB or iMac.

I do agree that the price point for the MBP is somewhat ridiculous at this stage of the game, although from an abstract view (not looking at current specs), the price difference over an iMac is somewhat more justified; having the specs of a desktop with a laptop's portability is going to come at a premium.

And while I can't find the thread, the MB vs. MBP argument has been pretty thoroughly discussed here. In short (comparing a top-end MB with a top end MBP), you pay for the extra RAM, HDD, slight speed bump, and graphics card. The keyboard, speakers, screen size, and look factor in as well. I guess it depends on what you're looking for in a laptop, but the MB isn't an all in one solution if you're trying to do more 'pro' work. I think the new revisions, especially if released simultaneously, will have more clear-cut distinctions for prospective buyers.

 

[Manic Mouse]

I do agree that the price point for the MBP is somewhat ridiculous at this stage of the game, although from an abstract view (not looking at current specs), the price difference over an iMac is somewhat more justified; having the specs of a desktop with a laptop's portability is going to come at a premium.

Actually it's more the other way around: The iMac is a desktop with the specs of a laptop (Merom, Laptop GPU, RAM). The only differences between the iMac and the MBP are the HDD, externals and the fact that the MBP has a battery. And do those three components add up to a $1,000 (or there abouts) difference? I don't think so.

It seems to me that Apple price their "Pro" and "consumer" computers very differently meaning that while the MBP is basically the same (spec wise) as an iMac it costs a lot more merely on the basis that it's a "Pro" computer and the iMac isn't. In terms of raw components the MBP probably costs about $200 more than an iMac to make at most.

And while I can't find the thread, the MB vs. MBP argument has been pretty thoroughly discussed here. In short (comparing a top-end MB with a top end MBP), you pay for the extra RAM, HDD, slight speed bump, and graphics card. The keyboard, speakers, screen size, and look factor in as well. I guess it depends on what you're looking for in a laptop, but the MB isn't an all in one solution if you're trying to do more 'pro' work. I think the new revisions, especially if released simultaneously, will have more clear-cut distinctions for prospective buyers.

I intend to replace the RAM and HDD of any Apple laptop I buy with third party components (since it'll be far cheaper than upgrading through Apple). In my case the extra RAM and HDD space in the MBP is entirely moot, though I suppose I could put them in my old laptop...

 

[daneoni]

Dell's XPS M1210 notebooks are configurable with 2.33GHz meroms already, so i dont get the whole chip shortage thing.

 

[tarjan]

Sure, for d@mn near 3200 dollars you can get an xps, shipping (estimated) november third. That is with a lesser quality, shorter warranty than apple and weighing in at a svelt 9lbs. Without the extended battery.

I'm not saying it isn't a great system or that apple is priced in the realm of reasonability for what it has inside, but a 9lb laptop with 1hr of run time is not what I would consider reasonable either. At 5.4lbs for the apple we are talking 60% of the weight in a package that runs longer, runs an OS that I think here we can conclude has significant advantages and has a coolness factor that the other one doesnt.

Go for one of the higher end video cards in the dell (which I do think apple should be considering) and the weight goes up a bit, along with a reduction in the already short battery life. Apple's engineering group just does a better job using the energy they have, as does the OS. I would bet that they would make sure the gpu is clocked as low as feasable 99% of the time, then during game play clock up and let the fans spin, lowering battery life. That I could deal with.

If I wanted a portable desktop, the XPS would be a nice sytem. I want a laptop. Although they do have that 20" system... (not)

This suit is NOT BLACK!

 

[daneoni]

Sure, for d@mn near 3200 dollars you can get an xps, shipping (estimated) november third. That is with a lesser quality, shorter warranty than apple and weighing in at a svelt 9lbs. Without the extended battery.

I'm not saying it isn't a great system or that apple is priced in the realm of reasonability for what it has inside, but a 9lb laptop with 1hr of run time is not what I would consider reasonable either. At 5.4lbs for the apple we are talking 60% of the weight in a package that runs longer, runs an OS that I think here we can conclude has significant advantages and has a coolness factor that the other one doesnt.

Go for one of the higher end video cards in the dell (which I do think apple should be considering) and the weight goes up a bit, along with a reduction in the already short battery life. Apple's engineering group just does a better job using the energy they have, as does the OS. I would bet that they would make sure the gpu is clocked as low as feasable 99% of the time, then during game play clock up and let the fans spin, lowering battery life. That I could deal with.

If I wanted a portable desktop, the XPS would be a nice sytem. I want a laptop. Although they do have that 20" system... (not)

This suit is NOT BLACK!

Fair point but i was talking about about the 12.1" widescreen version which i doubt is 9lb. Agreed it is more expensive but im not saying i'd buy one im just saying they have the merom chips so why cant Apple do the same announce now to ship in november.

 

[tarjan]

Because thats not how apple does it.

Frustrating? Yes.

Does it work for their bottom line? Hell yes.


BTW: 5-5.8lbs depending on config for the 12" dell. Apple was 4.6lbs back in the day on their 12", and I would guess the new one (if there ever is) should weigh in at the same amount.

 

[AppliedVisual]

What do you think ???

24th ??? 31th ??? 7th of nov ??? I'll go for the 24th of oct.

Originally I kept saying Tuesday 10/31. But too many factors are in place to make this week Apple's best choice between now and the real-world holiday deadline (11/22). So, I'm picking this Wednesday 10/25. Makes the most sense to me... Why not Tuesday? Because all the current promotions and mail-in rebates expire on 10/24. So, I'm thinking they'll announce on 10/25 and we'll see CTO shipments and store starting to stock them within a week.

 

[AppliedVisual]

Dell's XPS M1210 notebooks are configurable with 2.33GHz meroms already, so i dont get the whole chip shortage thing.

There is no shortage. It's a hallucination induced by drinking too much (product)Red KoolAid. Every major computer vendor, including Dell and Apple are all shipping Merom (yes, even the 2.33GHz version) within their standard build times.

 

[AppliedVisual]

Fair point but i was talking about about the 12.1" widescreen version which i doubt is 9lb. Agreed it is more expensive but im not saying i'd buy one im just saying they have the merom chips so why cant Apple do the same announce now to ship in november.

The problem with the XPS notebooks (and I was considering one a while back) is that the smaller model doesn't have a DVI port at all. The 17" model only has a single-link port so that's worthloess to those with Dell or Apple 30" displays - Same goes for that 20" monstrosity. On top of that, the 12.1" model only comes standard with the GMA950 graphics. And in it's lowest configurations is priced nearly the same as the Macbook. At least they put the desktop version X1800 GPU in that 20" thing... But I can get a 24" iMac with better HDD, equivalent video, the ability to run OSX and Windows, etc.. for about $1K less even after AppleCare. IMO they're both just about equally portable. Sure the Dell folds up kinda like a notebook, but really.... Who's going to lug that thing around with them every day?

 

[shadowlander]

Originally I kept saying Tuesday 10/31. But too many factors are in place to make this week Apple's best choice between now and the real-world holiday deadline (11/22). So, I'm picking this Wednesday 10/25. Makes the most sense to me... Why not Tuesday? Because all the current promotions and mail-in rebates expire on 10/24. So, I'm thinking they'll announce on 10/25 and we'll see CTO shipments and store starting to stock them within a week.

Though I've never given in to to trying to guess Apple's determined unpredictability, I have to say that I'm in agreement with this. Makes the most sense from the things I've read.

I'm curious, though, what your thoughts are regarding whether or not we're likely to see any revisions beyond that of a C2D upgrade? Esp. given the AI article referenced earlier...

 

[Multimedia]

AppleInsider Piece Confirms My Suspicion 2.33GHz Merom Yields Were Low To Date

From AppleInsider - fresh off the press(page)
Friday, October 20, 2006
Briefly: holiday Apple hardware tracking for early Nov.

now here's for a sudden super upgrade this Tuesday first. and then silent speed bump on Nov 1

Looks like Halloween to me. I have the expectation that Apple wants top of the line MacBook Pros to run @ 2.33GHz standard - not as an optional upgrade. This article confirms my suspicion that the quantity - i.e. yield - of 2.33GHz Meroms is still fairly low or is just now getting better than when they started two months ago. So I don't expect anything to happen Tuesday October 24. Hope I'm wrong though.

 

[shadowlander]

Looks like Halloween to me. I have the expectation that Apple wants top of the line MacBook Pros to run @ 2.33GHz standard - not as an optional upgrade. This article confirms my suspicion that the quantity - i.e. yield - of 2.33GHz Meroms is still fairly low or is just now getting better than when they started two months ago. So I don't expect anything to happen Tuesday October 24. Hope I'm wrong though.

OK. I was kind of looking at the October 25...but I'm curious about others' read on the AI reference to only "speed bumps" on the MBP when it is indeed released. Does it sound to you like the other revisions that many here (including myself) have been hoping would be included as well are now not likely?

Obviously no one can predict the future here. Just curious how others read that...

 

[eepee]

Right. So if Apple upgrades MB and/or MBP to CD2 let's say 1. November for the holidays as AppleInsider predicts, is it likely that they'll upgrade both / either again as soon as after MacWorld SF in January 2007? When you take a look at the update schedule of 2nd Generation iBook it looks like there is a chance for that? Or is it likely as well?

# iBook Dual USB (May 1, 2001) – Second Generation iBook
# iBook Dual USB Late 2001 (October 16, 2001) - Minor revision
# iBook 14-inch (January 7, 2002) – New model, larger 14-inch display
(Source: Wikipedia)

Yeah, I do understand that events that took place 5 years ago don't have the best predicting value... But still it's worth speculating So there might be a minor revision for the holiday shopping season and then a total overhaul in MWSF 07 in January? Suppose it would be convenient to do atleast a minor revision then when they'll have to implement iLife 07 to the Macs anyways? Or maybe they'll take MS by total surprise and release Leopard already in MWSF 07 ahead of schedule as some sources seem to speculate. Yeah, right

 

[sblasl]

Maybe Apple has finally learned a lesson from a repeated mistake made in the past. Whenever Apple releases new systems they almost every time muck it up by not having enough inventory to meet the demand. This ends up causing frustration with the consumer and inevitably lost sales.

Maybe this time they are ramping up to have a large inventory to meet potential pent up demand. I am concerned that if the release of these new systems is delayed much further but still in time for the holiday shopping season and then Apple tries to meet the demand with inadequate inventory Apple will have shot itself in the foot and by the sounds of it some folks here may have shot themselves in the head...

So with all of this time that we feel has been squandered, Apple completed the redesign and has been pumping out MB's & MBP's to have ready to go immediately.

I think this theory may tie into the revelation by the Apple Insider article...

 

[Detektiv-Pinky]

Right. So if Apple upgrades MB and/or MBP to CD2 let's say 1. November for the holidays as AppleInsider predicts, is it likely that they'll upgrade both / either again as soon as after MacWorld SF in January 2007? When you take a look at the update schedule of 2nd Generation iBook it looks like there is a chance for that? Or is it likely as well?

# iBook Dual USB (May 1, 2001) – Second Generation iBook
# iBook Dual USB Late 2001 (October 16, 2001) - Minor revision
# iBook 14-inch (January 7, 2002) – New model, larger 14-inch display
(Source: Wikipedia)

Yeah, I do understand that events that took place 5 years ago don't have the best predicting value... But still it's worth speculating So there might be a minor revision for the holiday shopping season and then a total overhaul in MWSF 07 in January? Suppose it would be convenient to do atleast a minor revision then when they'll have to implement iLife 07 to the Macs anyways? Or maybe they'll take MS by total surprise and release Leopard already in MWSF 07 ahead of schedule as some sources seem to speculate. Yeah, right

Well, if the current product overhaul amounts to more than a simple chip-swap (and I think there must be more, otherwise they should have released it by now) the chances are pretty slim that there will be anything new so soon. This would just disrupt their design/testing/manufacturing cycle and makes no sense because there is always some weeks delay between design freeze, quality control, pre-production and actual shipment and would mean that they needed to build these machines NOW.

They might introduce another model/formfactor, but I think the MB & MBP's will not be touched so soon after a substantial overhaul.

 

[nevermind]

so i have finally decided to give in and buy a mb, i was actually considering the dell inspirion the other day but i smashed a rock against my head and came to my senses. I just have a quick question i am going to the apple store to buy it will they upgrade the ram to 1gig and the harddrive to 80gigs in store?

 

[AppliedVisual]

so i have finally decided to give in and buy a mb, i was actually considering the dell inspirion the other day but i smashed a rock against my head and came to my senses. I just have a quick question i am going to the apple store to buy it will they upgrade the ram to 1gig and the harddrive to 80gigs in store?

Many of the larger Apple stores carry alternative configurations of systems, not just the base configs. As for upgrades, especially on a Mac Pro, do them yourself. RAM and HD swaps are super-simple, take only a few minutes, and you can usually save quite a bit. If you're getting a MB, I would recommend the white 2GHz model. No reason to pay a $150 premium for black.

 

[sblasl]

I think we will see the laptop line receive their updates in the near future and put into the channels for the holiday shopping season. That way Apple can use MWSF to announce iTV and other assorted goodies and then move forward with the associated marketing campaigns for those new product lines.

 

[shadowlander]

Thoughts on AI Report Stating "Speed Bumped" Upgrade?

I am interested in an opinion from some of you guys who have been around here longer than me on the following quote from AppleInsider:

"Meanwhile, several of Apple's retail partners waiting on new shipments of the company's MacBook notebook lines were recently told that shipments of "speed bumped" models are currently tracking for the first week of Nov."

I am not as familiar with AppleInsider as some of you and am interested in how you "decrypt" this statement. Do you take it that they are implying a speed-bump-only upgrade? Or is it simply an ambiguous statement not meant to be understood?

 

[sblasl]

I am interested in an opinion from some of you guys who have been around here longer than me on the following quote from AppleInsider:
I am not as familiar with AppleInsider as some of you and am interested in how you "decrypt" this statement. Do you take it that they are implying a speed-bump-only upgrade? Or is it simply an ambiguous statement not meant to be understood?

My thoughts are that we will see the "speed-bump" via the C2D processor upgrade along with other revisions to the systems as well.

 

[tarjan]

"Speed bumped macs coming" + Apple Insider = "Well, we were talking to this farmer who has a brother, and his girlfriend's husband's ex wife's mother says that she knows a guy who likes apple pie. Oh and she likes macs too"