Full Laptop Refresh By Holidays?

[Multimedia]

Santa Rosa Processors Look To Be About The Same As Now

have there been any processor specs released for the santa rosa platform other than the ultra low voltage models?

I'm pretty sure they won't be going any faster if that's what you're thinking. From what I've read here, the processor part looks to be the same as now - meaning what's in the iMac now. I guess there may be some more of that SSE mumbo-jumbo under the hood.

 

[DHagan4755]

10.5 may be out sooner than Apple is saying. I think they said Spring 2007 to be conservative. They may also want to appear more on the ball than Microsoft has been when it comes to shipping software on schedule. I would like to see those new Top Secret features, but, so far it feels pretty solid right now.

 

[macman2790]

i think it may be possible that Apple will release at MWSF

 

[generik]

The PAIN is OVER Finally

Enough is enough already - I've got a business to run and just placed an order with Amazon for a 17" MBP - DONE !!!

A nice $200 rebate and superb (almost free) expedited shipping as a "Prime Account" customer. AND - no taxes - what more could I ask for from the retailer?

If it is a lemon it goes back to Amazon for an exchange or refund right away - screw the Apple "repair a brand new product defective out of the box" game. If it works as I hope, my needs will be met and I can look at whatever is new whenever it is released and make an informed decision at that time.

A burden has been lifted -

Another one got blackmailed

 

[ergle2]

have there been any processor specs released for the santa rosa platform other than the ultra low voltage models?

SR is for the entire range of Merom chips. It replaces Napa.

The CPUs themselves will differ in that it requires Socket P and uses a faster FSB. Same wafers.

 

[ergle2]

maybe the next imac will use santa rosa, hopefully

Probably. Only real gain would be Robson tho'.

 

[generik]

SR is for the entire range of Merom chips. It replaces Napa.

The CPUs themselves will differ in that it requires Socket P and uses a faster FSB. Same wafers.

Aren't the socket P Meroms going to be 45nm or something?

 

[AppliedVisual]

Who cares if it does or doesn't? Santa Rosa is a platform and will probably make only a little difference. Nothing to get excited about.

Especially since we don't know what Santa Rosa will entail, or at least we don't know the full picture just yet. Obviously it's the next generation mobile chipsets, the Merom CPU and its successor. Most of us are assuming that it will also bring full 64bit support for the Core 2 Duo CPU allowing us to actually use 4GB or more in a notebook or iMac (right now, even if Apple drops Merom into the current MBP, we don't get the enhanced memory addressing) -- see the iMac, only 3GB max installable, about 2.6GB usable. Other expected features of Santa Rosa are 802.11n WiFi support and the inclusion of Bluetooth, the latter of which is on most new notebooks anyway.

For me, I could really use 4GB of addressable RAM in my MBP. But since it probably won't happen with the refresh unless Apple and Intel have conjured up a revised chipset to support the 40bit memory addressing of the CPU, I decided not to wait. I oped for a refurb'd MBP and it's great. If/when new MBP models come out this year or next, I'll re-evaluate. This system will be passed to my wife who's also wanting a new notebook and I'll get the newer one.

 

[ThunderLounge]

10.5 may be out sooner than Apple is saying. I think they said Spring 2007 to be conservative. They may also want to appear more on the ball than Microsoft has been when it comes to shipping software on schedule. I would like to see those new Top Secret features, but, so far it feels pretty solid right now.

I spoke with someone today that has the recently noted version that shipped to developers. I don't know if there is some sort of NDA with those, but he said something to me that rocked my socks. He could have been yanking my chain, but that's not something he tends to do.

I kept promising myself I wouldn't bring it up before I talk to him again, or in case he shouldn'thave told me at all, but if he confirms I heard him right this week... Y'all will need to go get a shovel and dig my jaw out of the center of the earth. OMG, and the likes can't describe it.

At first I thought he was talking about something that's already noted to be new to 10.5, but he said this was a completely different beast.

Gosh I hope he wasn't yanking my chain.

Sorry to tease, but listening to what he described and keeping it bottled was freaking me out.


Added: To be honest, I hope it ships a week before Vista. Too close for William to do a damn thing about it... heh heh heh heh heh

 

[generik]

I spoke with someone today that has the recently noted version that shipped to developers. I don't know if there is some sort of NDA with those, but he said something to me that rocked my socks. He could have been yanking my chain, but that's not something he tends to do.

I kept promising myself I wouldn't bring it up before I talk to him again, or in case he shouldn'thave told me at all, but if he confirms I heard him right this week... Y'all will need to go get a shovel and dig my jaw out of the center of the earth. OMG, and the likes can't describe it.

At first I thought he was talking about something that's already noted to be new to 10.5, but he said this was a completely different beast.

Gosh I hope he wasn't yanking my chain.

Sorry to tease, but listening to what he described and keeping it bottled was freaking me out.


Added: To be honest, I hope it ships a week before Vista. Too close for William to do a damn thing about it... heh heh heh heh heh

New thread title: Leopard and Merom MBP Next Tuesday!

 

[ergle2]

Aren't the socket P Meroms going to be 45nm or something?

No, that's Penryn.

 

[generik]

No, that's Penryn.

Alright, guess Merom will be when I will jump

 

[solidbreakz]

I too have succumbed. I just picked up a MBP refurb. Couldn't wait any longer...and at the price I got, I just couldn't let it go. As far as I can tell, it suffers from none of the issues the early CD MBPs were plagued with.

I wish you all the C2D MBP's you've all been waiting so patiently for...

...and hope you all get your hands on 'em very very soon!

 

[PlayUltimate]

I don't care what chip is in. I'm just patiently waiting for 10.5 before getting a new computer. My 2+ year old iBook is still running strong with 10.3.9. (I didn't update to 10.4 since I could not use the widgets)
So I'm hoping for 10.5 at MWSF.

 

[ergle2]

Especially since we don't know what Santa Rosa will entail, or at least we don't know the full picture just yet. Obviously it's the next generation mobile chipsets, the Merom CPU and its successor. Most of us are assuming that it will also bring full 64bit support for the Core 2 Duo CPU allowing us to actually use 4GB or more in a notebook or iMac (right now, even if Apple drops Merom into the current MBP, we don't get the enhanced memory addressing) -- see the iMac, only 3GB max installable, about 2.6GB usable. Other expected features of Santa Rosa are 802.11n WiFi support and the inclusion of Bluetooth, the latter of which is on most new notebooks anyway.

For me, I could really use 4GB of addressable RAM in my MBP. But since it probably won't happen with the refresh unless Apple and Intel have conjured up a revised chipset to support the 40bit memory addressing of the CPU, I decided not to wait. I oped for a refurb'd MBP and it's great. If/when new MBP models come out this year or next, I'll re-evaluate. This system will be passed to my wife who's also wanting a new notebook and I'll get the newer one.

Sure, it's an improvement. Most users won't add more memory for a while tho', due to the high cost of the 2GB DIMMs (which I read are expected to be fairly stable for some time, and cost about the same as an MBP...) and the fact the iMac and notebooks just have two slots.

Incidentally, the MCH included in SR allows up to 8GB of RAM, so no, no 40bit address space for you

Point of pedantry, you DO get the address space improvements with Merom. There's some physical RAM restrictions but the virtual address space is increased. As I said, purely pedantry.

802.11n I don't see it as a huge deal since most people already have G equipment and most people aren't moving around huge files -- wireless browsing/email/IM/etc. are the big deal for now. It's the "good enough" test. Throw in that it'll be easy to add as a card if you really want it and it being part of the chipset isn't a big deal. 802.11n is already part of the recent iMac refresh, apparently.

BT's on most new systems anyway. I've not seen Intel mention it anywhere so I'm assuming it's not part of SR since it's not a huge strategic advantage to keep quiet about it... cutting edge it ain't

Robson I've talked about here at length already. The new dynamic FSB will help save a power a little, as will Crestline knowning when L2 is powered down. So will the interlaced LCD tech, if that shows up. Depends on the panel vendor used, probably.

I just don't regard SR as a huge leap forward -- more an evolutionary step. Some people seemed to think otherwise, hence a lot of the commentary.

Perhaps the most amusing point is that most of the power usage improvements will be masked by the higher power-draw that Vista requires -- bearing in mind that SR will be most used in Windows-powered notebooks.

 

[generik]

Well SR does involve a socket change, and if the MBP were a desktop it'd definitely factor some into things. However for the MBP the chip is soldered on anyway... and it is a laptop, so I suppose there is little point in having the latest socket to ensure "future upgrade leg room"

 

[ergle2]

Well SR does involve a socket change, and if the MBP were a desktop it'd definitely factor some into things. However for the MBP the chip is soldered on anyway... and it is a laptop, so I suppose there is little point in having the latest socket to ensure "future upgrade leg room"

Yup.

For their desktop processors, Intel will often release some later designs in both a new socket type and the last socket type too. Whether that will apply to mobile systems, however, remains to be seen; I'd consider it unlikely as it's a very different market.

In the case of the MBP, as you rightly point out, it's moot...

 

[Apple Corps]

Another one got blackmailed

"Blackmailed" is the mildest term that would apply

 

[generik]

"Blackmailed" is the mildest term that would apply

What would you suggest?

 

[macman2790]

Especially since we don't know what Santa Rosa will entail, or at least we don't know the full picture just yet. Obviously it's the next generation mobile chipsets, the Merom CPU and its successor. Most of us are assuming that it will also bring full 64bit support for the Core 2 Duo CPU allowing us to actually use 4GB or more in a notebook or iMac (right now, even if Apple drops Merom into the current MBP, we don't get the enhanced memory addressing) -- see the iMac, only 3GB max installable, about 2.6GB usable. Other expected features of Santa Rosa are 802.11n WiFi support and the inclusion of Bluetooth, the latter of which is on most new notebooks anyway.

For me, I could really use 4GB of addressable RAM in my MBP. But since it probably won't happen with the refresh unless Apple and Intel have conjured up a revised chipset to support the 40bit memory addressing of the CPU, I decided not to wait. I oped for a refurb'd MBP and it's great. If/when new MBP models come out this year or next, I'll re-evaluate. This system will be passed to my wife who's also wanting a new notebook and I'll get the newer one.

I really think that 4gb of ram is a possibility in the upcoming macbook pros. Intel has been working closely with apple since the release of the core duo processors. It seems as if intel has been working more with apple than the pc world since pc manufacturers have already shown some jealousy. It's a long shot but i also think that there's a possibility for NAND flash memory. Which is the only thing we'd probably enjoy from the santa rosa platform. Apple still hasn't committed to the santa rosa platform, maybe intel has customized a mac platform that would further distinguish Apple's notebooks from the pc notebooks. Also, I'd like to note that the imac is a consumer desktop and the macbook pro is a pro notebook. The platform the macbook pro uses can take up to 4 gb of ram, there is just something that is restricting it to 2gb right now. Plus high end dell notebooks can support up to 4gb of ram using the same napa platform.

 

[Apple Corps]

What would you suggest?

Terms like: *%!@&!@#**, held captive by the OS and applications and driven insane by Apple's "Top Secret" approach

Of course - there is still the potential that Tuesday will arrive with some good news and I'd consider a swap at that point. But - either way, I'll have my laptop needs met this week and can start focusing more on the business projects.

 

[Sped]

Other Santa Rosa capabilities

I think Santa Rosa will represent the first Macs to get eSATA since Intel includes that in the design. Frankly, I'm surprised the current Mac Pros don't add eSATA since they can support it now although it's not as important with additional internal drive bays available.

For me, eSATA is big because I'll likely be working with HD home movies when all the pieces fall into place. Even FW800 isn't fast enough really to move HD video back and forth. I'd like Apple to drop FW800 altogether once eSATA is available. The only reason to keep FW at all is older iPods and external storage.

 

[ergle2]

I really think that 4gb of ram is a possibility in the upcoming macbook pros. Intel has been working closely with apple since the release of the core duo processors. It seems as if intel has been working more with apple than the pc world since pc manufacturers have already shown some jealousy. It's a long shot but i also think that there's a possibility for NAND flash memory. Which is the only thing we'd probably enjoy from the santa rosa platform. Apple still hasn't committed to the santa rosa platform, maybe intel has customized a mac platform that would further distinguish Apple's notebooks from the pc notebooks. Also, I'd like to note that the imac is a consumer desktop and the macbook pro is a pro notebook. The platform the macbook pro uses can take up to 4 gb of ram, there is just something that is restricting it to 2gb right now. Plus high end dell notebooks can support up to 4gb of ram using the same napa platform.

PC manufacturers have "shown jealousy"? How so?

Napa supports 4GB. The problem is by the time you take away the memory mapped IO space, you end up with maybe 3GB.

Apple's lack of public comittment to Santa Rosa is hardly surprising -- they haven't even publically comitted to Core 2 Duo in the MBP yet and that's shipping.

NAND Flash is what Intel calls "Robson", and is part an optional part of Santa Rosa.

I don't see "custom" hardware in the future for Apple. The Mac advantage is in the OS, and Intel's not going to offer anything fancy to one customer and not another.

The iMac is indeed a desktop, but the hardware is what Intel classes as mobile -- the processor is Merom, not Conroe/Allendale. Technically, the iMac isn't Napa because it doesn't use an Intel wifi adapter, but since Apple isn't interested in Centrino certification it's moot. The iMac can take 4GB, much like the Dell -- and, like the Dell, you don't get all 4GB accessible.

 

[ergle2]

I think Santa Rosa will represent the first Macs to get eSATA since Intel includes that in the design. Frankly, I'm surprised the current Mac Pros don't add eSATA since they can support it now although it's not as important with additional internal drive bays available.

For me, eSATA is big because I'll likely be working with HD home movies when all the pieces fall into place. Even FW800 isn't fast enough really to move HD video back and forth. I'd like Apple to drop FW800 altogether once eSATA is available. The only reason to keep FW at all is older iPods and external storage.

eSATA's basically just a SATA port on the outside. The spec tightened the min voltage up a bit to allow for a longer cable length. Obviously, they used a more robust connector (but, oddly, didn't add power to it... shame about that).

It's pretty easy to add eSATA to existing systems as a result -- doesn't need to be part of the chipset.

 

[macman2790]

PC manufacturers have "shown jealousy"? How so?

Napa supports 4GB. The problem is by the time you take away the memory mapped IO space, you end up with maybe 3GB.

Apple's lack of public comittment to Santa Rosa is hardly surprising -- they haven't even publically comitted to Core 2 Duo in the MBP yet and that's shipping.

NAND Flash is what Intel calls "Robson", and is part an optional part of Santa Rosa.

I don't see "custom" hardware in the future for Apple. The Mac advantage is in the OS, and Intel's not going to offer anything fancy to one customer and not another.

The iMac is indeed a desktop, but the hardware is what Intel classes as mobile -- the processor is Merom, not Conroe/Allendale. Technically, the iMac isn't Napa because it doesn't use an Intel wifi adapter, but since Apple isn't interested in Centrino certification it's moot. The iMac can take 4GB, much like the Dell -- and, like the Dell, you don't get all 4GB accessible.

It was in an article on an intel news site on the jealosy part, and flash technology does exist today on a current samsung notebook that uses pentium m, only available in Korea. Not sure about the korea part but there was a link in one of the other threads on this site. I think it was on that long photokina thread.