Fundamental Misunderstanding what AVP is

[NeonNights]

It seems the excitement from owners so far is having more screens and displays all around you. I find it ironic, and at odds, with efforts to reduce screen time on devices. It is recommended to limit screen time for youth but adults could certainly use a break from our devices too. Some people are so addicted to their phones that they can't even put the phone down while driving! And now AVP's predominant feature is to encourage more screens all around you to watch, even placing displays in rooms you're not even present in.

If I try to find the silver lining here then I suppose cluttering up your virtual space with screens and widgets is better than cluttering your physical living room. And if one really needs all those screens and floating timers and reminders then at least that's less eWaste in the landfills?

I am willing to demo the AVP if I happen to be in the mall but really have zero interest right now.

 

[heretiq]

That's what you get when you appoint a beancounter to be your CEO. You get micromanagement, penny-pinching, fifedoms etc taking precedence over things like innovation, making things work, great customer experiences and so on.

Jobs made a huge mistake making John Scully 2.0 the CEO.

Hmmm .. I can’t recall, can you remind us which world class global logistics platform serving 2B+ devices you established .. and which company it was that you grew to a 2 trillion dollar valuation again? 🤔

 

[AirpodsNow]

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That has always been the unspoken cost of innovation. That sometimes, in order to usher in a new world order, you must be willing to do away with the current one. Everything has an opportunity cost.

In the very least, one can’t say that Apple is resting on their coattails and no longer innovating. They have been working on the Vision Pro for a decade, it’s amazing to see in hindsight how they have slowly but methodically laying the foundation for it (such as their TV+ content), and I can’t wait to see what comes next.

It would be interesting to know what strategy or things that they think needed to be done to support this 'spatial computing' future. The foundations you said could include all those things like:

• lidar sensors in iPhones/iPad, iOS/iPadOS (is that to make these sensors cheaper, to them, and also make iPhones more 'spatial' aware and useful to support AVP?)
• Spatial Audio (AirPods and now Macs support this as well)
• AR / reality kit / USDZ - Xcode stuff
• Apple TV as you said, to further ensure a streaming platform that will support AVP for entertainment. Is this a 'must have' app/function for AVP?
• Apple Silicon: was it a decision also to go for their own silicon because otherwise they simply couldn't build the AVP or would include/inform competitors? Now no-one else can benefit from their silicon inventions. If it only supported Macs, would the investments to change be different? Now the M2 is being used by AVP, was that to share the cost of investment with Mac sales to make it less costly or feasible? Was this a major decision within the apple silicon team to move the Mac?
• Sidecar/Airplay so Macs can be used as a mirror
• Polishing Cloth when XDR display was invented can be cross used for AVP /s

 

[AirpodsNow]

That's what you get when you appoint a beancounter to be your CEO. You get micromanagement, penny-pinching, fifedoms etc taking precedence over things like innovation, making things work, great customer experiences and so on.

Jobs made a huge mistake making John Scully 2.0 the CEO.

Hmmm .. I can’t recall, can you remind us which world class global logistics platform serving 2B+ devices you established .. and which company it was that you grew to a 2 trillion dollar valuation again? 🤔

I guess some consider successfully introducing new product categories for apple like the wearables (watch, AirPods etc) a huge mistake. Not mentioning able to compete with/in Android/Samsung/China in the last 12 years since Steve's passing. It had become so successful that's it's actually boring to no longer be the underdog of the market for some, and that's a huge mistake it seems.

 

[Abazigal]

It would be interesting to know what strategy or things that they think needed to be done to support this 'spatial computing' future. The foundations you said could include all those things like:

I mean, would it be a stretch to claim that perhaps the real killer app for the vision pro is the entire Apple ecosystem?

You have the iPhone 15 pro capable of recording spatial video. There's TV+ content optimised for the Vision Pro (and possible sports content as well). There's the custom silicon that enables the real-time passthrough. It doubles as a larger display for your Mac. It's capable of lossless audio with the AirPods Pro. In a pinch, it can run existing iPad apps. I imagine that when find my does come to visionOS, it will be amazing to be able to track AirTags in an AR-optimised version of Apple Maps.

And I imagine that with time, Apple will release more features that integrate it even more tightly with your other Apple devices. I imagine it would be hard for any other one company to top this.

 

[AirpodsNow]

I mean, would it be a stretch to claim that perhaps the real killer app for the vision pro is the entire Apple ecosystem?

You have the iPhone 15 pro capable of recording spatial video. There's TV+ content optimised for the Vision Pro (and possible sports content as well). There's the custom silicon that enables the real-time passthrough. It doubles as a larger display for your Mac. It's capable of lossless audio with the AirPods Pro. In a pinch, it can run existing iPad apps. I imagine that when find my does come to visionOS, it will be amazing to be able to track AirTags in an AR-optimised version of Apple Maps.

And I imagine that with time, Apple will release more features that integrate it even more tightly with your other Apple devices. I imagine it would be hard for any other one company to top this.

I guess what I meant was to understand the choices behind making AVP, bit like when they needed to make the iPhone.

but yeah, my choice for Apple stuff is indeed the eco system. Often I marvel how seamless (finally) my AirPods work whenever I start it on any device, the switching is seamless by now. Copy and paste, sharing of focus modes etc. The more I use the ‘eco system’ features the more it makes sense to get more of their stuff. It reminds me of the time when remote controls were a leading choice when choosing vcr/dvd/hifi that accompany the TVs at the time. It was such a hassle to have multiple RC. Choosing a compatible RC rather a ‘better’ peripheral would result in less clutter on a daily basiss. That‘s how it feels for me with the apple stuff. So yes, I think that things ‘just’ works with eachother is a main driver for me.

 

[Abobrek]

does any other VR headset allow you to control it only with your eyes and hands?

Again, very little. You can control a Quest using your hands. Next?

 

[Abobrek]

Read this comment very slowly. The fact that AVP is driving interest amongst people who "hadn't ever looked into or tried any other VR/AR device of any kind" is the point, and should be celebrated — not derided. Where is the outrage and derision that Microsoft and Facebook have invested decades and billions in developing and marketing their products and yet remain invisible to people like your friends? I just don’t get the Apple bashing when they're investing billions to drive innovation and awareness to a demonstrably stalled (some might say failed) market. 🤔

You mean RETURN peoples attention to this category. Don’t forget both Google and Samsung had VR products YEARS ago. The question now would be, why did they stop producing those products?

 

[Abobrek]

Its interesting too because its the same users over and over lol. For people who have 0 desire to purchase it they certainly spend a lot of time in the Vision Pro forums lol.

At the end of the day, yes there are other great headsets available cheaper (and in some cases, much cheaper)--but I have not heard from a single person who has tried one that says any of the other headsets are better, or even as good. Universally, everyone seems to say that the tech in the AVP is def ahead of anything commercially available. Now, is that price increase worth the added tech when cheaper devices can do many of the things (and many times more things) than you can currently on the Apple Vision Pro, though possibly in a worse way? That's up to the buyer.

I don't shame people who drop $100k for a car when you can buy a car that will do just as much (and sometimes more) for $50k.

I personally think the Vision Pro is an amazing piece of tech unriveled by any of the other headsets available. I have a Quest headset and this makes it look like a toy--that being said, I would also not recommend most people to buy one at $3500. The average person will not get $3500 worth of use out of it nor can the average person afford $3500 for a headset--but when a gen 2 or 3 comes out and if it reaches a price tag equivalent to a Macbook or iPad Pro I would expect these to flourish in the market.

While I dont recommend everyone buy one now I whole heartedly recommend everyone try a demo at the Apple Store.

You are looking at only the future of the AVP and failing to see the future of other products such as what XReal offers. Apple going the route of VR goggles is a HUGE mistake.

 

[Naraxus]

Hmmm .. I can’t recall, can you remind us which world class global logistics platform serving 2B+ devices you established .. and which company it was that you grew to a 2 trillion dollar valuation again? 🤔

Ahh yes. The old "I Haven't Done This, Therefore I Can't Comment Or Form An Opinion" line....

When you feel like addressing what I said let me know. Til then....

 

[Naraxus]

I guess some consider successfully introducing new product categories for apple like the wearables (watch, AirPods etc) a huge mistake. Not mentioning able to compete with/in Android/Samsung/China in the last 12 years since Steve's passing. It had become so successful that's it's actually boring to no longer be the underdog of the market for some, and that's a huge mistake it seems.

When you feel like addressing what I said instead of making ad hominems let me know.

 

[toobravetosave]

so what i’m gathering is if you don’t cheer and praise avp purchasers like a cheerleader fan girl

you’re a hater

 

[Abobrek]

Apple’s entry in this category will bring focus, investment, advancements and grow the market for themselves and competitors. Apple’s marketing and marketing and terminology will drive this growth where Microsoft and Meta have failed. If you were making a multi-billion dollar investment in this space would you use the same demonstrably failed technology and marketing approach as those that have floundered for decades? 🤔

Why wouldn’t Apple invest billions into producing products like that of what XReal offers? AVP has very little that differentiates it from other VR headsets. Will future versions of AVP be better? Yes, but so will future versions of XReal’s products. And you are correct, consumers will be turning their attention to the AR/VR category and realize the limitations of the AVP and come across TRUE AR products.

 

[Rogifan]

All VP tells me so far is there are a lot of people with disposable income willing to spend it on a shiny new toy. Let’s see if this guy is still using it 6 months from now when the novelty and wow factor wears off. Also kinda scary for a baby to wake up and see that on their parent’s face. Thought the guy says he took it off as soon as his baby woke up.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1753946884937535746

 

[psycho78]

You are looking at only the future of the AVP and failing to see the future of other products such as what XReal offers. Apple going the route of VR goggles is a HUGE mistake.

You’re not actually suggesting that XReal has a better product simply because of form factor right? Reviews are not very good for their latest glasses and it’s basically just an external display. More comfortable? Sure—but under the hood there is nothing close to compete with the AVP—not to mention, except for tech enthusiasts, no one has even heard of XReal (and many enthusiasts likely haven’t even heard of them). If anything their product may help improve form factors for other products in the future—but that’s all.
And your comment about Apple entering the AR/VR market being a mistake is just your opinion. The product is selling very well so far and as it matures and improves and the price lowers it will become even more so.
What will you have to say if AVP gen 4 or 5 are down to glasses akin to the XReal glasses but retaining all the functionality and bells and whistles?

 

[turbineseaplane]

The future is not more tech and anti-social behaviour.

You should have played with your cat instead of wasting your time on YouTube.

Amen to that

(I'm not religious, I just like the saying)

 

[turbineseaplane]

Skipped to the end of this thread and glad you said this here. It’s sad that being an enthusiast for one of the better tech companies finds one among a crowd that is also so uncritical in its view of tech and its trajectory right now.

It's like the old saying, applied here:

"Apple were so busying figuring out if they could, they never stopped to think if they should"

 

[heretiq]

You mean RETURN peoples attention to this category. Don’t forget both Google and Samsung had VR products YEARS ago. The question now would be, why did they stop producing those products?

I meant what I said and the comment was pretty straightforward: Apple is DRIVING interest amongst people who were not interested in the category — as the person I quoted clearly stated. Also, the reason Google and Samsung stopped offering products is because they failed to create a sufficient market for their products to justify their continued participation.

And finally, no one is claiming that Apple invented the category. Why the insistence on contesting obvious facts to deny giving credit to Apple for breathing new life in a clearly floundering category?

 

[AppleGuy96]

lol my post with absolutely nothing objectionable got deleted. I know psycho78 got to read it and could likely agree it was a very throughly thought out post. And people wonder why X succeeds (oh yeah ik the contemporary narrative is the sky is falling and everyone will be one masterdon (lol i don’t even know how to spell it) or threads. Coming from a late 20’s something, it’s never happening 😂. It’s a joke to see X as the tech “loser of the year” and masterdon/threads as the winner 😂. Out of all my friends only 1 has masterdon and used it for about a month. Freedom of speech is cool, especially when you’re not doing anything wrong. 1/1 post deletion (and the first one was nothing like this) I know this is a little snarky and political. the other was pure APV. wont be using this site anymore! I like freedom of speech more than junk kuo rumors.

 

[heretiq]

Ahh yes. The old "I Haven't Done This, Therefore I Can't Comment Or Form An Opinion" line....

When you feel like addressing what I said let me know. Til then....

I did address the part of it worth addressing. What you said was derisive of arguably the most effective CEO in a generation AND also the most visionary CEO in a generation who appointed him — with zero facts or qualifications to support your statement. We are all free to comment. You did and so did I. We don’t have to agree.

 

[TVreporter]

Replace cat with kid, are you going to do the same?

 

[Allen_Wentz]

You sure did have a monitor - two of them, right on your face.
When I'm using a laptop or desktop, I also don't have to hold the monitor and my hands are free, aren't yours?

How do many folks like on such an obviously flawed statement? When using a laptop or desktop, although one "don't have to hold the monitor" one has to keep one's head in the same room at appropriate viewing distance and angle.
Huge difference from full mobility and 360˚ viewing.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

This is why I await a “killer app” despite much negativity around the concept (on this site and elsewhere). I see what’s possible with it! But nobody, including Apple, is offering anything other than “more of the same? MUCH MORE OF THE SAME!” While adding discomfort and isolation to the mix. No wonder most who wax poetic are focused on gaming or TV (shows, movies, sports, etc). And it does those things, probably quite well. I require more, however. And I have faith that Apple will find it, assuming it does well enough in the market that Apple continues to invest in it.

moved

 

[AirpodsNow]

When you feel like addressing what I said instead of making ad hominems let me know.

You didn’t say anything that could be addressed, it felt more like spouting or rambling and you signed off with John S 2.0 being appointed. If it was interesting enough with clear arguments, it would be fair to request it.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

We're talking about two different things I think

On the mobile side I'm with you, but not on the Mac side

They've not made any Macs that "wouldn't be possible without ASi", especially when we talk about desktops.
Laptops are of course all about efficiency, and that's been great

But even on laptops .. where is the 12" MacBook that was always BEGGING for super efficient/powerful chips?
Where is the laptop with cellular built in, that, once again, could really use a power efficient platform?
We've got notches all over -- where is FaceID on the laptops?

On and on..

They simply aren't investing and innovating like they should/could in that space

I could not disagree more with "not on the Mac side." Laptops are by far the most relevant segment of personal computing, and Macs own the profitable upper end of the space. IMO clearly Apple is "investing and innovating like they should/could in that space."

Personally I see no PC-side laptop that approaches an M2 or M3 MBP for my needs. YMMV of course but Apple is going after my end of the market and doing it very well. And Apple's big investment in spatial computing is a direction I fully approve of just like I applauded the Newton investment [which ultimately helped put Apple where it is today].