G4 7448 and 7457 swap

[LightBulbFun]

Update: Im home and its working!

very cool to see! nice work 🙂 its very cool to see that the 7457 will work with the MDD/its daughter card

I had seen that the 7457 worked with Quicksilver CPU cards so i had most curious if it worked with the MDD

really cool to see it does, now it will be interesting to see how far you can clock it 🙂

if you want some better CPU identification install CHUD tools and then the processor preference pane 🙂

I would not bother swapping the L3 cache chips especially as the 7457 only supports using 2MB L3 as actual Cache

 

[JoyBed]

very cool to see! nice work 🙂 its very cool to see that the 7457 will work with the MDD/its daughter card

I had seen that the 7457 worked with Quicksilver CPU cards so i had most curious if it worked with the MDD

really cool to see it does, now it will be interesting to see how far you can clock it 🙂

if you want some better CPU identification install CHUD tools and then the processor preference pane 🙂

I would not bother swapping the L3 cache chips especially as the 7457 only supports using 2MB L3 as actual Cache

The geekbench recognises it. So with the CHUD tools it fixes the Hardware specs? Everything is correct beside the processor name.

 

[LightBulbFun]

The geekbench recognises it. So with the CHUD tools it fixes the Hardware specs? Everything is correct beside the processor name.

the PowerPC 60? is just a cosmetic thing and is just because that info in sys profiler comes directly from the OpenFirmware device tree, CHUD tools does not "fix it" it just gives you some more info etc 🙂

all the gigadesigns and powerlogix patchers do is remove the halt on unknown CPU check, it does not technically add support OF still has no idea what the CPU is LOL (it does the bare minmum to get the system booting with unknown CPUs which is good for tinkers like me but less so for end users)

it would be interesting to see how they are reported with the Sonnet firmware patch meant for the sonnet MDX CPUs

the Sonnet patcher tends to fix the name in the device tree and also masks the CPU PVR so the CPUs report them as 7455's so you can boot OS 9 with minimal patching/nvramrc scripts

obviously make sure to proper uninstall one makers BootROM patch before installing another!

 

[JoyBed]

the PowerPC 60? is just a cosmetic thing and is just because that info in sys profiler comes directly from the OpenFirmware device tree, CHUD tools does not "fix it" it just gives you some more info etc 🙂

all the gigadesigns and powerlogix patchers do is remove the halt on unknown CPU check, it does not technically add support OF still has no idea what the CPU is LOL (it does the bare minmum to get the system booting with unknown CPUs which is good for tinkers like me but less so for end users)

it would be interesting to see how they are reported with the Sonnet firmware patch meant for the sonnet MDX CPUs

the Sonnet patcher tends to fix the name in the device tree and also masks the CPU PVR so the CPUs report them as 7455's so you can boot OS 9 with minimal patching/nvramrc scripts

obviously make sure to proper uninstall one makers BootROM patch before installing another!

I would try the Sonnet patcher but I dont have any other daughtercard to run in this machine. So if I uninstall it I wont boot up anymore.
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I think no one will send me a daughtercard to try another patcher.

 

[ervus]

I wonder if its possible to swap out the 7455 I have in my G4 Titanium with the 7448 ?

This is technically possible (I have something similar in a desktop)...

 

[LightBulbFun]

neat someone made an interposer board from 483CBGA to 360CBGA 🙂

do you know if it worked or what the details are exactly like who its from?

I have seen a similar interpose board used on the 750FX/750GX PowerBook G3 Pismo upgrade's from power logix
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interesting SMRXM

the guy selling home made 7457 upgrades on ebay goes by the same user name

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[JoyBed]

Next thing would be to source the 370MHz capable versions of the cache chips and change them. After that they wont be the limit in the overclocking, so if I remember right thee clock for them is 1:5 so if they were capable of 370MHz than the CPU clock can be 1,85GHz. The stock cache chips are capable of 300MHz so now my maximum is 1,5GHz, so that will be my next mod to the daughterboard - setting it to 1,5GHz.

 

[LightBulbFun]

Next thing would be to source the 370MHz capable versions of the cache chips and change them. After that they wont be the limit in the overclocking, so if I remember right thee clock for them is 1:5 so if they were capable of 370MHz than the CPU clock can be 1,85GHz. The stock cache chips are capable of 300MHz so now my maximum is 1,5GHz, so that will be my next mod to the daughterboard - setting it to 1,5GHz.

curiously I have had little issue with cache being overclocked

see my Pismo which started life as a 400Mhz G3 I got it running a 600Mhz 7410 no issues so its L2 backside cache has gone from 160Mhz to 240Mhz LOL

id try clock up the CPUs on your CPU card until its no longer stable then worry about the L3 cache, you can test if its the issue by simply disabling it with CHUD tools

or pulling off the Cache "SPD" EEPROM from the daughter card

 

[DearthnVader]

curiously I have had little issue with cache being overclocked

see my Pismo which started life as a 400Mhz G3 I got it running a 600Mhz 7410 no issues so its L2 backside cache has gone from 160Mhz to 240Mhz LOL

id try clock up the CPUs on your CPU card until its no longer stable then worry about the L3 cache, you can test if its the issue by simply disabling it with CHUD tools

or pulling off the Cache "SPD" EEPROM from the daughter card

The cache doesn't have it's own PLL's?

 

[LightBulbFun]

The cache doesn't have it's own PLL's?

nah its tied to the CPU Clock but its not 1:1 (well on die cache but not external cache)

on backside L2 macs its usually 1:2 or 5:2 for example, which you can see in my various CPU upgrade threads 🙂

its almost suspicious how well they clock LOL

(admittedly Im not sure I checked just how fast the L2 cache chips on my Pismo are physically marked rated for)

 

[DearthnVader]

nah its tied to the CPU Clock but its not 1:1 (well on die cache but not external cache)

on backside L2 macs its usually 1:2 or 5:2 for example, which you can see in my various CPU upgrade threads 🙂

its almost suspicious how well they clock LOL

(admittedly Im not sure I checked just how fast the L2 cache chips on my Pismo are physically marked rated for)

I seem to remember my 604e in my PM8600 had a software programable PLL for the L2 cache.

It just seems that the L3 cache should have a PLL to change the cache ratio on the daughter card.

https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/application-note/AN2489.pdf

Maybe the L3ITCR0?

 

[JoyBed]

You know, I dont want to touch the settings for the L3 and change the ratio for them just to be able to OC the CPU. The biggest power gains would be with the faster cache chips so they dont limit the OC capability at all. Like this I can achieve the biggest speeds possible with the MDD. And tea of course the bus clock wont stay stock for long.

 

[DearthnVader]

You know, I dont want to touch the settings for the L3 and change the ratio for them just to be able to OC the CPU. The biggest power gains would be with the faster cache chips so they dont limit the OC capability at all. Like this I can achieve the biggest speeds possible with the MDD. And tea of course the bus clock wont stay stock for long.

Do what floats your boat😉

It seems the 7457 can manage DDR Ram for the L3 cache, but I assume that the traces on the daughter card would have to be for DDR ram rather than SDRAM?

 

[JoyBed]

Do what floats your boat😉

It seems the 7457 can manage DDR Ram for the L3 cache, but I assume that the traces on the daughter card would have to be for DDR ram rather than SDRAM?

Wait, the daughtercard have a DDR for L3 cache. Its DDR SSRAM.

 

[LightBulbFun]

I seem to remember my 604e in my PM8600 had a software programable PLL for the L2 cache.

the 604e has no direct L2 cache interface, it was handled by the motherboard

that was one of the big things of the G3 750 the fact it had a backside L2 cache directly controlled and connected to the CPU via its own dedicated bus 🙂

It just seems that the L3 cache should have a PLL to change the cache ratio on the daughter card.

yeah changing the L3 cache ratio is not hard with the right version of CHUD tools 🙂

and could even do it permanently if we can figure out the format the external cache info EEPROM works by

It seems the 7457 can manage DDR Ram for the L3 cache, but I assume that the traces on the daughter card would have to be for DDR ram rather than SDRAM?

the 2002 Quicksilver and MDD already use a DDR L3 cache thankfully 🙂

 

[ervus]

Yes, I got the CPU from ebay and it works with the Newer Technology firmware patch.

Joybed: have you installed the 7448? Do you know how to edit the firmware apart from the canned patches from the aftermarket CPU companies?

 

[JoyBed]

Yes, I got the CPU from ebay and it works with the Newer Technology firmware patch.

Joybed: have you installed the 7448? Do you know how to edit the firmware apart from the canned patches from the aftermarket CPU companies?

Nope, IDK how to do it. Im just using the gigadesigns firmware patch on the MDD. What benefits would give me some other patchers? The main point is the new CPU, thats the workhorse. Its name is not recognised but all the parameters are recognized properly(L2 size and speed and etc...) so the OS can utilize it. As someone said the name in the hardware specs can be edited so it reflects the real installed cpu. Beside that, other apps like geekbench recognise the name of the cpu properly as I attached a photo somewhere in my posts. BTW what is the geekbench score of the stock MDD with the dual 1,25ghz 7455 with 2gb of ram?

 

[rampancy]

the guy selling home made 7457 upgrades on ebay goes by the same user name

Pardon Our Interruption...

Wow, a dual 533 Mhz CPU module for $28...I wonder if that would work in my 450 Mhz Sawtooth...

 

[LightBulbFun]

Yes, I got the CPU from ebay and it works with the Newer Technology firmware patch.

oh very cool! what is it clocked at? any Sys profiler shots etc? 🙂

its very cool to see someone made such an interposer like that I had theorised about it since the main interface between the 745x CPUs and 744x CPU's are the same, except the 745x has an L3 cache interface of course, but the main CPU interface's are the same between the 2 so it would be possible in theory to build an interposer board that just ignored the L3 pins etc, neat to see someone actually tried it 🙂

it would be really neat to try such an interposer and 7448 with an MDD, imagine a Dual 7448 2Ghz MDD that would be pretty epic 🙂

id love to know more about its story how exactly it was developed etc 🙂

 

[JoyBed]

QUICK UPDATE: Overclocked to 1,5GHz and the System profiler recognizes the 1,5GHz... When I overclocked my DLSD that didnt display the new frequency... I wonder why. The CHUD Tools recognizes that the CPU is a 7457. Also im making a switch board to change the clock of the cpus, voltage and bus clock simpler, not by soldering every time, it also makes experimenting more easy and quick.

 

[LightBulbFun]

QUICK UPDATE: Overclocked to 1,5GHz and the System profiler recognizes the 1,5GHz... When I overclocked my DLSD that didnt display the new frequency... I wonder why. The CHUD Tools recognizes that the CPU is a 7457. Also im making a switch board to change the clock of the cpus, voltage and bus clock simpler, not by soldering every time, it also makes experimenting more easy and quick.

nice 🙂 some benchmarks would be cool!

especially if you boot into Leopard and run GB 2.2.7 and then you can directly compare to my 1.42 MDD results 🙂

LightBulbFun's Profile - Geekbench

browser.geekbench.com

 

[jmilan0302]

Okay, continuing with the swap project. The old non-working PSU has been swapped for a ATX PSU(specs can be seen in the photo) so I have a room for a powerful GPU(I need an advice on that what is the fastest GPU I can cram in there), firmware patched, CPUs swapped with the help of my coworker. Now just to get home to test it out. Later I will overclock it. I plan on something like 190MHz bus and 1,7GHz cpus. The uni-north in my DLSD can handle the189MHz with the 7447 so why not the same series just with the L3?

Best GPU you can get in an MDD is Geforce 7800GS or if I remember correctly Radeon X1950. These GPUs are actually bottlenecked by the G4 CPU, it will be interesting to see how it performs with a 7457. Also bus overclock? Never heard of that being done on a Powerbook but I have heard of it done on a MDD and older G4 models.

 

[JoyBed]

Best GPU you can get in an MDD is Geforce 7800GS or if I remember correctly Radeon X1950. These GPUs are actually bottlenecked by the G4 CPU, it will be interesting to see how it performs with a 7457. Also bus overclock? Never heard of that being done on a Powerbook but I have heard of it done on a MDD and older G4 models.

Search my threads and you will find one about my DLSD. I overclocked it, the bus is 189MHz and cpu at 1,89GHz. It quite snappy. I was reading about overclocking the bus on the MDD but it was all about going from 133MHz to 167MHz. My MDD is 167MHz from stock so I want it higher, to something like my DLSD. I can say that the 7457 swap was worth it. Better thermals, less power hungry, better clockability, larger cache, supports faster L3... I hope I can get the L3 at least to half the speed of the CPU, that would be nice, its also sad that Freescale didnt make 7458 cpus just the 7448. Just imagine what a beast it would be. 7448+L3 cache+native 200MHz bus and overclockability over 2GHz with the benefits of the 90nm process(less heat and power consumption). Also isnt the fastest GPU the x850xt?

 

[jmilan0302]

Search my threads and you will find one about my DLSD. I overclocked it, the bus is 189MHz and cpu at 1,89GHz. It quite snappy. I was reading about overclocking the bus on the MDD but it was all about going from 133MHz to 167MHz. My MDD is 167MHz from stock so I want it higher, to something like my DLSD. I can say that the 7457 swap was worth it. Better thermals, less power hungry, better clockability, larger cache, supports faster L3... I hope I can get the L3 at least to half the speed of the CPU, that would be nice, its also sad that Freescale didnt make 7458 cpus just the 7448. Just imagine what a beast it would be. 7448+L3 cache+native 200MHz bus and overclockability over 2GHz with the benefits of the 90nm process(less heat and power consumption). Also isnt the fastest GPU the x850xt?

I guess I mixed up G5 and G4 best GPUs, it is definitely the X850XT or 7800GS, X1950XT is a PCIe card. As for the MDD bus overclock, I read on some forum (which seems to be down now) they replaced a crystal oscillator on the motherboard to overclock the bus to something like 173mhz. They never said which but I think I know which one because it is right next to a clock generator chip they were talking about.

 

[JoyBed]

I guess I mixed up G5 and G4 best GPUs, it is definitely the X850XT or 7800GS, X1950XT is a PCIe card. As for the MDD bus overclock, I read on some forum (which seems to be down now) they replaced a crystal oscillator on the motherboard to overclock the bus to something like 173mhz. They never said which but I think I know which one because it is right next to a clock generator chip they were talking about.

I was searching and the 7800GS is really the fastest card for G4. It requires taping the pins but it works. And I figured out how to change the bus speed without replacing the crystal.