G4 7448 and 7457 swap

[weckart]

X1950XT is a PCIe card.

This was my first thought as I have this card. However...

ATI Radeon X1950 XT AGP Specs

ATI R580+, 625 MHz, 48 Pixel Shaders, 8 Vertex Shaders, 16 TMUs, 16 ROPs, 256 MB GDDR3, 703 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

Doubt that anyone hacked a Mac firmware for it, though.

 

[DearthnVader]

This was my first thought as I have this card. However...

ATI Radeon X1950 XT AGP Specs

ATI R580+, 625 MHz, 48 Pixel Shaders, 8 Vertex Shaders, 16 TMUs, 16 ROPs, 256 MB GDDR3, 703 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

Doubt that anyone hacked a Mac firmware for it, though.

It's waiting for you to do it, it's not that hard, assuming the GPU it the same as the:

Retail

Radeon X1900 GT

 

[jmilan0302]

This was my first thought as I have this card. However...

ATI Radeon X1950 XT AGP Specs

ATI R580+, 625 MHz, 48 Pixel Shaders, 8 Vertex Shaders, 16 TMUs, 16 ROPs, 256 MB GDDR3, 703 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

Doubt that anyone hacked a Mac firmware for it, though.

It's waiting for you to do it, it's not that hard, assuming the GPU it the same as the:

Retail

Radeon X1900 GT

Good luck finding one for a reasonable price though lol

 

[DearthnVader]

Good luck finding one for a reasonable price though lol

Or finding the AGP version at all.

 

[JoyBed]

Okay, I will get the 7800GS. Also now i have a good way of testing clock speeds and different setting on the bus PLL. Its fun to clock the system just with switches.

 

[bunnspecial]

In an MDD, an X800 series it also worth a look. For a while, FireGL X3s, which flash beautifully to X800XTs, were cheap and plentiful, but those seem to have dried up.

I don't have a 7800(well, I do have a couple of G5/PCIe ones, but not an AGP) but an X800 is quite a good card and may be easier to find.

 

[JoyBed]

In an MDD, an X800 series it also worth a look. For a while, FireGL X3s, which flash beautifully to X800XTs, were cheap and plentiful, but those seem to have dried up.

I don't have a 7800(well, I do have a couple of G5/PCIe ones, but not an AGP) but an X800 is quite a good card and may be easier to find.

I got a X800XT for 20euros. As I was reading thru some benchmarks and reviews of x800xt vs 7800gs it seems that there is very little difference between them besides the SM3. So for now I have 9000Pro, 9600Pro and now the X800XT. As soon as I dont need to spend more money at the house I will buy a 7800GS. For now I will stick to the X800XT and try to OC it. Also I will buy a SATA PCI card and swap the HDD and the drive for SATA variants as the PSU I swapped in the MDD have both molex and sata power plugs, And maybe some USB PCI card.

 

[bunnspecial]

I got a X800XT for 20euros. As I was reading thru some benchmarks and reviews of x800xt vs 7800gs it seems that there is very little difference between them besides the SM3. So for now I have 9000Pro, 9600Pro and now the X800XT. As soon as I dont need to spend more money at the house I will buy a 7800GS. For now I will stick to the X800XT and try to OC it. Also I will buy a SATA PCI card and swap the HDD and the drive for SATA variants as the PSU I swapped in the MDD have both molex and sata power plugs, And maybe some USB PCI card.

Out of curiosity, what variant of the X800XT did you buy?

There are quite a few variants. Mac cards won't work in a G4, and not all PC variants can be flashed.

 

[JoyBed]

Out of curiosity, what variant of the X800XT did you buy?

There are quite a few variants. Mac cards won't work in a G4, and not all PC variants can be flashed.

IDK, I when I receive it I will tell you more.

 

[Macbookprodude]

So, Joybed, did you get 4GB on the G4 yet ?

 

[JoyBed]

So, Joybed, did you get 4GB on the G4 yet ?

Nope, I somehow got to the dev files of the PPC Macs. The CPU, northbridge and the RAM slots are wires to get more than 2gigs and the CPU can take it. The ONLY chip on the whole motherboard that is the limit is the northbridge. In the whole G4 era it is the limit. But I think it can be programmed becase there were somw macs that had limit less than 2gigs and others can take 2gigs, with the same chip. Its interesting.

 

[XaPHER]

That 4GB limit, even with a northbridge that could handle 4GB, is impractical. What about every memory-mapped device I/O on your system? What about the EEPROM that contains the boot rom? There's lots of stuff that's memory-mapped, and every single package has its address overhead. You can always remove all this "unnecessary" material, but then you'll probably find yourself thinking that a CPU with just a whole address space of RAM isn't at all interactive. At this point it's pretty darn involved, and there's other things to bother with.

 

[Macbookprodude]

So, basically 4GB on any G4 system is not practical ?

 

[XaPHER]

It's simply impractical on any processor than can't physically address more than 4Gb (i.e. most 32-bit processors).

 

[JoyBed]

That 4GB limit, even with a northbridge that could handle 4GB, is impractical. What about every memory-mapped device I/O on your system? What about the EEPROM that contains the boot rom? There's lots of stuff that's memory-mapped, and every single package has its address overhead. You can always remove all this "unnecessary" material, but then you'll probably find yourself thinking that a CPU with just a whole address space of RAM isn't at all interactive. At this point it's pretty darn involved, and there's other things to bother with.

It's simply impractical on any processor than can't physically address more than 4Gb (i.e. most 32-bit processors).

Why? The CPU is designed with 36bit addressing. So the maximum for the CPU is 64gigs. And for virtual memory adressing... Its beyond what we need. Please, study the CPU datasheets and architecture documentation before saying something like that. It would be useful thats no doubt but noone here can get ahold of a pin compatible northbridge that can take full advantage of the capabilities of the CPU.

So, basically 4GB on any G4 system is not practical ?

With more capable northbridge it would be practical.

 

[XaPHER]

The CPU is designed with 36bit addressing

No, you're right, the 7457 does have A32-A35 pins. My fault posting while feeling sleepy.

And for virtual memory adressing... Its beyond what we need

The 64GB upper limit *requires* MMU-level instructions to support, for which there's an extra set of considerations at kernel- and firmware-level that make virtual memory a definitely non-trivial aspect of this.

With more capable northbridge it would be practical.

Yes, that's exactly my point: If someone is willing to go to lengths such as design a whole northbridge, I beg them, engineer a new PowerPC motherboard instead.

 

[JoyBed]

No, you're right, the 7457 does have A32-A35 pins. My fault posting while feeling sleepy.



The 64GB upper limit *requires* MMU-level instructions to support, for which there's an extra set of considerations at kernel- and firmware-level that make virtual memory a definitely non-trivial aspect of this.



Yes, that's exactly my point: If someone is willing to go to lengths such as design a whole northbridge, I beg them, engineer a new PowerPC motherboard instead.

Well... If I had the schematics and pcb layouts in some programs like eagle or something like that... Than I can remake the motherboard. But I cant find in any PPC a northbridge that supports more than 4gigs. I think they just didnt think its necessary. But the only thing I can redesign about the MDD motherboard is to ditch the U2 and replace it with InterPid, that also means ditching also the KeyLargo. That would allow us to have DDR2 ram and also it will guarantee a stable bus clock above 167MHz(my DLSD is the proof).

 

[Jubadub]

Hey @JoyBed, any updates on your MDD and PowerBook experimentations?

Also, are you still providing CPU upgrade (and bus overclock) services? If you live in Europe, depending on the country, I have a 15" DLSD PowerBook looking at me in fear, ready to be shipped to you.

Did you end up doing 7448 upgrades on any machine in the end?

 

[JoyBed]

Hey @JoyBed, any updates on your MDD and PowerBook experimentations?

Also, are you still providing CPU upgrade (and bus overclock) services? If you live in Europe, depending on the country, I have a 15" DLSD PowerBook looking at me in fear, ready to be shipped to you.

Did you end up doing 7448 upgrades on any machine in the end?

Hi! Yes im still providing overclocking and CPU swaping services. I live in Europe, more exactly in Slovakia. The 7448 is still in progress cuz I didnt found any bootrom that would give me even a slight chance how to remove the cpuid check. So for now I just do a PowerMac CPU swaps and overclocks and PowerBook overclocks.

 

[Jubadub]

Hi! Yes im still providing overclocking and CPU swaping services. I live in Europe, more exactly in Slovakia. The 7448 is still in progress cuz I didnt found any bootrom that would give me even a slight chance how to remove the cpuid check. So for now I just do a PowerMac CPU swaps and overclocks and PowerBook overclocks.

You might like to keep watch on this thread, then. @dosdude1 has a manually-modified Mac mini G4 ROM that (potentially) replicates what the Giga Designs & other patchers do, but for that specific Mac model. Hopefully more is to come for PowerBooks and iBooks?

Also, any attempts at installing 7447 and/or 7448 on MDD CPU daughtercards? Although, as discussed earlier in the thread, something like the following adapter board for the CPU would be required for them:

If the following observation from @LightBulbFun is correct... (emphasis mine):

all the gigadesigns and powerlogix patchers do is remove the halt on unknown CPU check, it does not technically add support OF still has no idea what the CPU is LOL (it does the bare minmum to get the system booting with unknown CPUs which is good for tinkers like me but less so for end users)

it would be interesting to see how they are reported with the Sonnet firmware patch meant for the sonnet MDX CPUs

the Sonnet patcher tends to fix the name in the device tree and also masks the CPU PVR so the CPUs report them as 7455's so you can boot OS 9 with minimal patching/nvramrc scripts

obviously make sure to proper uninstall one makers BootROM patch before installing another!

...then the 7448 will work for MDD if those two patchers work. Else, we would have to rely on the Sonnet patcher intended for the MDX with its 7447 (a dual 2.0GHz 7447 would be already something, at least), and see if that works with the 7448. But the only way to know is by trying first...

 

[LightBulbFun]

...then the 7448 will work for MDD if those two patchers work. Else, we would have to rely on the Sonnet patcher intended for the MDX with its 7447 (a dual 2.0GHz 7447 would be already something, at least), and see if that works with the 7448. But the only way to know is by trying first...

we know that the GigaDesigns patcher works with the MDD from this thread (which is the same patcher we used to enable the 7448 to work on the iMac G4 PowerMac6,3)

so in theory 7448's should work once soldered to an MDD CPU card with a suitable interposer, or onto a Sonnet MDX card directly

a Dual 2Ghz 7448 MDD would be quite something

 

[JoyBed]

we know that the GigaDesigns patcher works with the MDD from this thread (which is the same patcher we used to enable the 7448 to work on the iMac G4 PowerMac6,3)

so in theory 7448's should work once soldered to an MDD CPU card with a suitable interposer, or onto a Sonnet MDX card directly

a Dual 2Ghz 7448 MDD would be quite something

Well, yes, the 7448 would work right away with the interposer. Dual 7448 performance could be awesome but I will aim at the 7448 for the powerbook, that would speed it up significantly.

 

[Jubadub]

Well, yes, the 7448 would work right away with the interposer. Dual 7448 performance could be awesome but I will aim at the 7448 for the powerbook, that would speed it up significantly.

Why not both?

I wonder if anyone got a 7448 beyond 2.0GHz running stably, by the way. Due to better thermals, and due to some "high-end" 7447s reaching 2.0GHz, the 7448 should be able to go a bit beyond. (Without liquid cooling or anything like that.)

 

[Amethyst1]

I wonder if anyone got a 7448 beyond 2.0GHz running stably, by the way.

I'm sure rabids7 or whatever his name is got it up to 3.5 ghz at stock voltage and on air.

 

[JoyBed]

Why not both?

I wonder if anyone got a 7448 beyond 2.0GHz running stably, by the way. Due to better thermals, and due to some "high-end" 7447s reaching 2.0GHz, the 7448 should be able to go a bit beyond. (Without liquid cooling or anything like that.)

I was reading somewhere that someone had the 7448 on 2,2GHz with 200MHz bus. From the experience with 74X7 family of CPUs iI can say that it can do those 2,2GHz figures.