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Nemesis said:
Doesn't matter Segundo. G4 or G5, it all su*k. Apple will scr*w up once again, I can feel that. G5 is DEFINITELY a way to go, because that's what people want. But I'm really sick of waiting. Gee, ONE YEAR since it was announced, and we still see NO G5 consumer machine (!), not even a PowerMac!! Hey, that's sick, man and there's no wonder that people are enough of that. I think they're real loosers. :mad:
Why they always wait for some "fair", "convention" or similar? Wht can't they announce something straight away? Now we have ONLY 2 major Mac conferences in one year, MWSF and WWDC. Are they going to introduce all they have just then? Why we have to wait 2 months for a WWDC and not have the product now!?
I think they have nothing to announce, after all. :D

Nemesis,
Would it be possible to clarify your post a bit? You've sort of confused me. On the one hand, you say, "G4 or G5, it all su*k [sic]. Apple will scr*w up once again, I can feel that." And then you follow up with, "G5 is DEFINITELY a way to go." Call me crazy, but from here, it sounds like you're contradicting yourself. Hence, my confusion.

(And, by the way, I believe it's okay to type "suck" and "screw" in these forums.)

Squire
 
detachable screen? cable problem?

Well, why not?
Oh, cables for power.... ok.... put a battery in the lcd that gets charged when the screen is "on the arm" and wireless for video signal. sure hell-expensive soution, but it's possible! ;)

ok, i'm full of it....
 
Mr. Anderson said:
but the key words here are "for something that I don't think is likely to happen" :rolleyes:

It's no more eyeroll-worthy than the constant and ill-informed want lists that get thrown around in here, and I have to be at least slightly concerned that this was done in a public thread instead of in private. There are more people posting than me, and the volume of them is higher than mine.

Perhaps one reason for that is my insistence on researching my claims.

You should realize that no matter what you say, there will always be someone looking to see a G6 in the new iMacs *if* they come out at WWDC this year (G6 is not a typo).

On this, you're preaching to the choir. In fact, I think you'll find this exact same point in my older posts at more than one place, since I've seen just how much people seem to expect things that won't come, or at least not in the form that they want.

segundo said:
While I agree that the G4 is still a fine chip I think the G5 has some distinct performance advantages above just clock speed that make it a better solution than the G4. One in particular is floating point performance. Wouldn't a 1.6 Ghz G4 lose out to a 1.6 Ghz G5 on floating point calculations?

That depends, really, on the optimization of the code. There's still a lot of libraries and tricks for using the G4 that haven't necessarily been duplicated on the G5 yet. It will grow into its own eventually, but the proven technology is still the one with the most development on it.

Just look at VPC for an example.

Belly-laughs said:
You obvioulsy spend a lot of time on your replies, instead maybe you should spend more of your time on issues that matter, perhaps in your local community.

I've already spent considerable time on local charity and fundraising events, and continue to give time, money, and other donations when I can. Don't assume that you know what I do.

AL-FAMOUS said:
now im not sure exactly what your meaning is with this statement, because alot of people want the G5 because it is a better and faster,

Better how? It's hotter, draws more power, has a support system that also eats more to do its work, and otherwise requires far more engineering than the G4 did. The clock-to-clock performance on most tasks it roughly on par, with only a minimal edge to the G5. It's faster because it's higher clock, mainly.


even if you compare the 1.6 to the 1.25 thats in it or the 1.5 that you have said might be in it, the difference isnt just the clock speed. In my opinion when apple put the G5 in a modified imac they will put a 1.6/1.8 in the 17inch and a 1.8/2.0 in the 20inch, giving you a huge advantage over a 1.5 G4, such as - 800mhz-1ghz fsb, 64bit processor ect

Yes, I've seen your opinion. Now show me the figure on heat dissipation for the machine that just jumped from approximately 20-22 watts total power to something more like 40 watts total power. How, in a small formfactor, is Apple intending to keep it both quiet and cool, while also dropping the cost and adding all these new, shiny features that everyone keeps howling about?

as for killing it off ---- why would they do that???

Because the all-in-one has had a love/hate relationship with Apple Computers over the years, and the current processor crop doesn't seem too friendly with the SFF and portable markets. As such, they might need to just bite the bullet and create something else entirely - a consumer tower, in this case - to fill the niche that the iMac was intended to sell to in the first place.

Don't get me wrong. I think that Apple will make it work, if it's possible for anyone in the industry to have a simple, elegant, reasonably quick consumer machine. It's just not going to be $700 or nearly as flashy and complex as some people hope. Detachable screens cost as much as the baseline iMac does right now, just to name one example.

then again i read another one of your posts saying something about removing 12inch powerbook from the line (dont quote me because im not quoting you i may be wrong)

I did. The 12" PowerBook is basically cannibalized by the iBook as it is. There's very little reason to buy one, because the power difference isn't all that great, and there's just no way that a G5 is fitting in there. They had to make it fatter to fit a G4!

Kill the smallest PowerBook, but beef up the iBooks to take its place. That's my position on the subject. Two pro laptops, two consumer ones.

Nemesis said:
Doesn't matter Segundo. G4 or G5, it all su*k. Apple will scr*w up once again, I can feel that. G5 is DEFINITELY a way to go, because that's what people want. But I'm really sick of waiting. Gee, ONE YEAR since it was announced, and we still see NO G5 consumer machine (!), not even a PowerMac!! Hey, that's sick, man and there's no wonder that people are enough of that. I think they're real loosers. :mad:

I have to confess, I'm with Squire on this one. First you claim that absolutely, without a doubt, there's going to be an update because your good friend at Apple told you so (or specifically didn't deny something). Now you're off on a rant about how everything Apple does is going to be crap and that they're all losers.

Aside from being borderline trolling material, what's your point?

Also, while the words your partially blanked are not against forum policy, the use of symbols to get around the language filter is. I tell you this for your own good.

hmg said:
Well, why not?
Oh, cables for power.... ok.... put a battery in the lcd that gets charged when the screen is "on the arm" and wireless for video signal. sure hell-expensive soution, but it's possible! ;)

The current wireless displays all use embedded processors, RAM, flash memory, and a lithium-ion battery, along with Windows CE on a thin client. They use 802.11b wireless and don't get enough bandwidth to allow display of video or anything more complex than word processing and web surfing. This is why I oppose the idea, because even the current models (which are only 15" wide) cost over $1000 when manufactured by a company that specializes in consumer electronics, like Phillips.
 
thatwendigo said:
The current wireless displays all use embedded processors, RAM, flash memory, and a lithium-ion battery, along with Windows CE on a thin client. They use 802.11b wireless and don't get enough bandwidth to allow display of video or anything more complex than word processing and web surfing. This is why I oppose the idea, because even the current models (which are only 15" wide) cost over $1000 when manufactured by a company that specializes in consumer electronics, like Phillips.

Well, I did say expensive.... wireless Firewire is coming.... ;)..... and I was always led to believe there are no games on Mac anyway? ;) (joke!)
 
thatwendigo said:
I did. The 12" PowerBook is basically cannibalized by the iBook as it is. There's very little reason to buy one, because the power difference isn't all that great, and there's just no way that a G5 is fitting in there. They had to make it fatter to fit a G4!

Kill the smallest PowerBook, but beef up the iBooks to take its place. That's my position on the subject. Two pro laptops, two consumer ones.

um, that small difference between the 15" and the 17" really isn't that noticable and not such a big deal. I believe the 12" PowerBook has great oppurtunities. I know this from experience. The iBook is not meant to be sold to the same market as the PowerBook. If you kill the most portable PowerBook and try and replace it with a "beefed up" iBook, you're going to lose sales. It's that simple. The PowerBook is meant to be sold the coporate/poweruser/prosumer market, while the iBook is more geared toward student/newbies/etc. I think that they'll be able to fit a G5 into this PowerBook, even if it's not released immediately. It'll just be like when the transition from Titanium to Aluminum.
 
Everyone has a right

thatwendigo said:
I have to confess, I'm with Squire on this one. First you claim that absolutely, without a doubt, there's going to be an update because your good friend at Apple told you so (or specifically didn't deny something). Now you're off on a rant about how everything Apple does is going to be crap and that they're all losers.

Aside from being borderline trolling material, what's your point?

Also, while the words your partially blanked are not against forum policy, the use of symbols to get around the language filter is. I tell you this for your own good.

Wendigo, what are trying to prove to this forum? That you want to get that demigod status in a record time by posting a telephone book thick reply to every post here?

I had my statements, which were, as I said, based on very limited information. But contrary to mine and my friend's expectations, I now believe that updates will come later. Much later.

And that's why I'm so dissapointed. When analysing Apple's web site updates during last 12 months, we had G5 ads for few months last year and since then iTunes constantly there, nothing else.

Same as you, I have a right to BS if I want and make my opinions in this forum. I can hardly surpass you in that, anyway. This is "forum", and if you don't know the real meaning of that word, go and look in the dictionary. It's an old latin word and it means ...
 
Remember this?

"Apple Patent: Speech Recognition Improvements?

Apple has recently been awarded patents for a number (here, here) of microphone/speech recognition patents.

The most descriptive is this patent which was filed in July 2002 entitled "Microphone elements for a computing system". The patent abstract is as follows:


Quote:

An improved speech recognition device is provided. The speech recognition device comprises a display with at least two built in microphones and a speech recognition module electrically connected to the display. The speech recognition module uses an algorithm that may take into account the position of the built in microphone on the display. The display may have a first axis of rotation where the microphones may be placed an equal distance from the first axis of rotation.



The application itself explains the difficulties in filtering out background noise from speech for recognition, and describes a technique with "at least two built in microphones and a speech recognition module electrically connected to the display".

Apple has not publically released any displays that incorporate this technology."




Just thought these features might find their way onto the new imacs. The axis rotation display sounds like it could easily be something imac like. Not sure I would use anything like this though I guess that would depend on how they implement it software wise. Apple has a habit of getting me to do things I thought I had no need to do previously. (eg: imovie editing etc)

Ah well, time will tell.
Back on topic, I'm not too fussed over whether the new imacs boast G5 processors or stick with the trusty G4. I'll be updating from a 350 G4 sawtooth and will be impressed with anything they come up with. It's OS stability, ease of use and hardware reliability that keep me onboard the Apple train.
 
Nemesis said:
Wendigo, what are trying to prove to this forum? That you want to get that demigod status in a record time by posting a telephone book thick reply to every post here?
So, you take offense to someone accurately quoting and responding to specific points? Personally, I appreciate that attention to detail more than any trite, ill-informed comments posted on this forum.

Frankly, it's unclear what you were trying to prove by making an "Updates are due next week. G5 iMac comes!" conjecture which has since spiraled into oblivion. Gee, that was fun. :rolleyes:

That's all I care to say about it and hope Mr. Anderson needn't intervene again.
 
hmg said:
Well, I did say expensive.... wireless Firewire is coming.... ;)..... and I was always led to believe there are no games on Mac anyway? ;) (joke!)

Please, please, please tell me that you're joking about the wireless FireWire comment... I've already seen far too many people who are confusing the cable and its fifth and sixth pin power capability with the standard. The PC-side implementation is merely the transport protocol, and not the power, so they only have four pins unless you're explicitly buying IEEE1394 compatible cards/systems.

I don't know how much longer I'll be able to hold back commentary on the idea of wirelessly recharging the iPod. :rolleyes:

However, I am glad to see that you understood how expensive the wireless display would be, and that you can joke around. We get a little too serious around here, sometimes.

Calebj14 said:
um, that small difference between the 15" and the 17" really isn't that noticable and not such a big deal.

Internal volume of Apple PowerBooks:
12" - 110.6 in^3
15" - 143.2 in^3
17" - 157.1 in^3

There is a far larger gap in available cooling space between the middle and the smallest of the line (32.6 in^3) than there is in the middle and the largest (13.8 in^3). As such, there is far more likelihood that a sufficient convection cooling system could be devised in the larger laptops, leaving the little 12" book as a redheaded stepchild. Without better heat and power management, the smallest book is doomed to lower performance, just as it's drawn even again.

The iBook is not meant to be sold to the same market as the PowerBook. If you kill the most portable PowerBook and try and replace it with a "beefed up" iBook, you're going to lose sales. It's that simple. The PowerBook is meant to be sold the coporate/poweruser/prosumer market, while the iBook is more geared toward student/newbies/etc.

The labels are all that is keeping Apple from doing as I've said, and selling the iBook as the more portable and battery-conscious of the line, and the PowerBook as the serious performer. Face it... If you're buying a compact notebook, you're going to have to make sacrifices in one area or another, and you're already making one on screen real estate. Better to acknowledge this fact and move on sensibly than cling to the past.

I think that they'll be able to fit a G5 into this PowerBook, even if it's not released immediately. It'll just be like when the transition from Titanium to Aluminum.

G4 "TiBook" 15" MPC7455 1.0ghz (20-25w @ 800mhz)
--133mhz FSB
--PC133 RAM
--Radeon 9000 64MB
--ATA66 drive
--1x SuperDrive
--9.5" x 13.4" x 1.1"
--5.4lbs

G4 "AlBook" 15" MPC7457 1.25ghz (9-11w @ 1.0ghz)
--167mhz FSB
--PC2700 RAM
--Radeon 9600 64MB
--ATA100 drive
--2x SuperDrive
--9.5" x 13.7" x 1.1"
--5.6lbs

As you can see, the shift from Titanium to Aluminum was a heat balancing act. The MPC7455 of the older generation was traded for the 25% faster but cooler MPC7457, and also gained an increment of about 25% bus speed, 50% disk speed, 100% optical speed, and 250% on RAM. By contrast, the shift to a G5 would be a gain of 7-25% clock rate for a raise of at least 50% in heat (compared to a more than 50% drop), a raise of 480-540% FSB, most likely a shift in disk access around another 30-50%, the maintenance of the 4x SuperDrive as another 50% over the AlBook, and the keeeping of the hotter Radeon 9700 128MB GPU.

In other words... It really does make sense when I talk about heat budgets being an issue of serious concern, especially in that tiny little 12" PowerBook.

Nemesis said:
Wendigo, what are trying to prove to this forum? That you want to get that demigod status in a record time by posting a telephone book thick reply to every post here?

Status is number of posts, not length. I would be rising far, far faster if I were breaking my replies up rather than making them single units.

My purpose is as I said before... I am a one-man bulwark against willful ignorance and misinformation. After I've posted, it's a little unreasonable to claim you didn't know about things like heat, power draw, and other serious issues.

And that's why I'm so dissapointed. When analysing Apple's web site updates during last 12 months, we had G5 ads for few months last year and since then iTunes constantly there, nothing else.

Funny. I've seen G5 ads all along, ones for Motion, iBooks, the iPod mini, PowerBooks, and other products. Maybe you need to watch a little more carefully.

Same as you, I have a right to BS if I want and make my opinions in this forum. I can hardly surpass you in that, anyway. This is "forum", and if you don't know the real meaning of that word, go and look in the dictionary. It's an old latin word and it means ...

Argumentum Ad Hominem Abusive.

Refute my points if you must, but leave my character out of this. I've demonstrated nothing but a willingness to discuss facts and justified opinions, and a desire to see sources for these outlandish claims that others make.
 
Nemesis said:
Wendigo, what are trying to prove to this forum? That you want to get that demigod status in a record time by posting a telephone book thick reply to every post here?

For your information, Demi-god status is obtained simply by contributing to the site. You get the avatars from posting a lot. And, as mentioned above, if he were only interested in the number of posts, they wouldn't be "telephone book thick" replies in the first place. MacRumors sort of prides itself in having mature discussion. I may not agree with everything thatwendigo says, but you sure as hell can't bash the guy for presenting a case.

Nemesis said:
I had my statements, which were, as I said, based on very limited information. But contrary to mine and my friend's expectations, I now believe that updates will come later. Much later.

What event happened in the last 36 hours to cause the sudden 180-degree change of heart? Do tell.


PRØBE said:
Just thought these features might find their way onto the new imacs. The axis rotation display sounds like it could easily be something imac like. Not sure I would use anything like this though I guess that would depend on how they implement it software wise. Apple has a habit of getting me to do things I thought I had no need to do previously. (eg: imovie editing etc)

Ah well, time will tell.
Back on topic, I'm not too fussed over whether the new imacs boast G5 processors or stick with the trusty G4. I'll be updating from a 350 G4 sawtooth and will be impressed with anything they come up with. It's OS stability, ease of use and hardware reliability that keep me onboard the Apple train.


Very interesting info, indeed. And, as far as I'm concerned, quite on-topic.

Squire
 
PRØBE said:
Just thought these features might find their way onto the new imacs. The axis rotation display sounds like it could easily be something imac like. Not sure I would use anything like this though I guess that would depend on how they implement it software wise. Apple has a habit of getting me to do things I thought I had no need to do previously. (eg: imovie editing etc)

Aside from the 'display' part, it sounds like the iSight to me. Not to burst anyone's bubble or anything... I just think this is the kind of thing that Apple's already covered in an external module that does more than just the microphone access. However, if we do see it in hardware, I wouldn't expect it until around or after the release of 10.4, which is supposed to see significant change in speech recognition and output.

Back on topic, I'm not too fussed over whether the new imacs boast G5 processors or stick with the trusty G4. I'll be updating from a 350 G4 sawtooth and will be impressed with anything they come up with. It's OS stability, ease of use and hardware reliability that keep me onboard the Apple train.

Well, yeah. Whenever I upgrade, it's going to be from a 700mhz G4 and a 600mhz G3, so even the current machines are giant leaps as far as I'm concerned.
 
Well...

Squire said:
What event happened in the last 36 hours to cause the sudden 180-degree change of heart? Do tell.

Product seems not to be ready, something came up. iMac is supposed to go with 970FX, but that processor in fab was made using new and untested glue (adhesive). It was believed that only 2+ GHz models will have to be replaced because the heat produced was "melting" the glue. But it seems now that even low GHz rates do the same, so all sub-2GHz procs that go in iMacs have to be replaced. There were substantial number of them already made their way into computers and now they all have to be returned back.
According to Apple, PowerMacs were the absolute priority to return and replace G5s in them. Then iMacs. Now I also heard that XServer deliveries are also delayed a bit more, so, we'll see those nice iMacs ... well, who knows when!
:(
 
thatwendigo said:
I've already spent considerable time on local charity and fundraising events, and continue to give time, money, and other donations when I can. Don't assume that you know what I do.

well done, a very comendable thing to do, giving to charity is a very difficault thing to do ( seeing how your still using a 700mhz emac ;) )


thatwendigo said:
how? It's hotter, draws more power, has a support system that also eats more to do its work, and otherwise requires far more engineering than the G4 did. The clock-to-clock performance on most tasks it roughly on par, with only a minimal edge to the G5. It's faster because it's higher clock, mainly.

its a better chip its faster, its a floting point monster, and its got huge fsb compared to the g4, plus its future proof




thatwendigo said:
I've seen your opinion. Now show me the figure on heat dissipation for the machine that just jumped from approximately 20-22 watts total power to something more like 40 watts total power. How, in a small formfactor, is Apple intending to keep it both quiet and cool, while also dropping the cost and adding all these new, shiny features that everyone keeps howling about?

i dont know why you think it is so so so hot?? at 1.8 the MAXIMUM is 42 watts, the pentium 4 at 2.8 is 68.4-69watts and they put that in a laptop i belive?? so why not a g5 in a slightly modified imac and powerbook???


thatwendigo said:
the all-in-one has had a love/hate relationship with Apple Computers over the years, and the current processor crop doesn't seem too friendly with the SFF and portable markets. As such, they might need to just bite the bullet and create something else entirely - a consumer tower, in this case - to fill the niche that the iMac was intended to sell to in the first place.

i think we will have to agree to disagree on that one, i just dont think that apple will have 2 towers and 1 all in one....


thatwendigo said:
get me wrong. I think that Apple will make it work, if it's possible for anyone in the industry to have a simple, elegant, reasonably quick consumer machine. It's just not going to be $700 or nearly as flashy and complex as some people hope. Detachable screens cost as much as the baseline iMac does right now, just to name one example.

yeah i agree, detachable screens, come on guys, apple could do it for say $4999 maybe more


thatwendigo said:
The 12" PowerBook is basically cannibalized by the iBook as it is. There's very little reason to buy one, because the power difference isn't all that great, and there's just no way that a G5 is fitting in there. They had to make it fatter to fit a G4!

they wont kill it for one main reason - people buy lots of them.
not that it would bother me if apple did kick there ass out, cos i got the new 15inch.... :p


EDIT: that thing you said about holding back comments on the loonacy that is wirless ipod docking--- very ammusing :D
 
thatwendigo said:
I've already spent considerable time on local charity and fundraising events, and continue to give time, money, and other donations when I can. Don't assume that you know what I do.

Og course, I knew you did. Silly me. :rolleyes:
 
thatwendigo said:
I don't know how much longer I'll be able to hold back commentary on the idea of wirelessly recharging the iPod. :rolleyes:

Hopefully most people don't think wireless firewire would be used as a power source although that would be cool. I think the real future for fast wireless connections is wireless video. I won't take anyone's time by going through the math, but I think it is clear that transmitting high definition video for the purposes of recording or editing would significantly strain even Airport Extreme. Wouldn't it be nice if you could record a high definition source onto a PVR or computer (which you can but it is still pricey) and then edit it remotely?
 
Nemesis said:
Product seems not to be ready, something came up. iMac is supposed to go with 970FX, but that processor in fab was made using new and untested glue (adhesive). It was believed that only 2+ GHz models will have to be replaced because the heat produced was "melting" the glue. But it seems now that even low GHz rates do the same, so all sub-2GHz procs that go in iMacs have to be replaced. There were substantial number of them already made their way into computers and now they all have to be returned back.
According to Apple, PowerMacs were the absolute priority to return and replace G5s in them. Then iMacs. Now I also heard that XServer deliveries are also delayed a bit more, so, we'll see those nice iMacs ... well, who knows when!
:(

Maybe they read thatwendigo's posts and decided to stick with the G4. ;)

Squire
 
Deja-vu

Nemesis said:
Product seems not to be ready, something came up. iMac is supposed to go with 970FX, but that processor in fab was made using new and untested glue (adhesive). It was believed that only 2+ GHz models will have to be replaced because the heat produced was "melting" the glue. But it seems now that even low GHz rates do the same, so all sub-2GHz procs that go in iMacs have to be replaced. There were substantial number of them already made their way into computers and now they all have to be returned back.
According to Apple, PowerMacs were the absolute priority to return and replace G5s in them. Then iMacs. Now I also heard that XServer deliveries are also delayed a bit more, so, we'll see those nice iMacs ... well, who knows when!
:(





Wasn't this story about glue melting doing the rounds a while back?
I'm certain I've read something about this before.
Doesn't sound very plausible that glue could be to blame for all the delays, especially considering that yield problems are the reason cited by IBM. Then again, you claim that this problem only "came up" in the last 36 hours right?

PRØBE
 
Trust no IBM

PRØBE said:
Wasn't this story about glue melting doing the rounds a while back?
I'm certain I've read something about this before.
Doesn't sound very plausible that glue could be to blame for all the delays, especially considering that yield problems are the reason cited by IBM. Then again, you claim that this problem only "came up" in the last 36 hours right?
PRØBE

The "Glue Issue" was responsible for all 970fx chaos. One production manager at Fishkill introduced all new glue in processor assemblage (never tested before!), although he wasn't supposed to do so. For which reason? Maybe only few of them know. That guy was fired, and not only him -- the other one who dared to say (in usenet first) what was going on behind the iron curtains at IBM. Users were crazy and expecting -- what went wrong!?
The whole 970fx yield was screwed up -- those chips that were supposed to be okay, due to the glue issue had to be returned in fab. All rev.2 PowerMac G5 lines were disassembled, and also XServers too. IBM promised Apple to replace every defective 970fx with one extra, for free, just to compensate somehow for the tragedy. So, all yields of 970fx chip produced before and during the March this year are good only for .. junkyard!
During the last 2 days a news came that XServers were further delayed for many customers, so that sheds some new light on 970fx problems -- now I expect iMac to be delayed even further, because it seems that machine isn't top priority for Apple to put the new G5s in -- PowerMacs and XServers are topmost priority! If iMacs are to be announced at WWDC (lets hope!) they won't ship before August then.
And that's tragedy, if you ask me. I pray to God this won't happen!
God ... please ... ...
 
Squire said:
Maybe they read thatwendigo's posts and decided to stick with the G4. ;)

Squire

I must admit that I have begun to feel ashamed of my G5 after spending some time reading these forums. Not only does my 1GHz G4 PowerBook now constantly taunt the G5 about his droopy pipelines and flaccid PCI slots, but also the scorching amount of heat the G5 CPU and U3 ASIC produces has permanently scarred the side of my face closest to the machine.

Since I cannot afford to purchase another G4 based system, I have had to settle for decorating my PowerMac with a few signs to recover some lost dignity. Please note that the PowerBook took it upon itself to create its own sign. I try not to encourage it.
 

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Nemesis said:
Product seems not to be ready, something came up. iMac is supposed to go with 970FX, but that processor in fab was made using new and untested glue (adhesive).

This isn't a new occurrence, I hope you know. We had this out in the rumor community over a month ago, and it's been on a number of the source sites for a while. The problem is that there's a bonding agent between layers of silicon on the wafers that seems to be degrading under heat, and that this is causing them to fracture or de-bond under operation. It's not IBM's fault, so much as their silicon supplier, is what I've gathered, because they purchase the silicon wafers from outside groups and then put them through the lithography process.

According to Apple, PowerMacs were the absolute priority to return and replace G5s in them. Then iMacs. Now I also heard that XServer deliveries are also delayed a bit more, so, we'll see those nice iMacs ... well, who knows when!
:(

Of course they are, since Apple promised the 3ghz machines by this summer, though it's now unclear if Jobs meant WWDC or the end of the season at August/September. However, you must consider this when you talk about PowerBook G5s and other SFF designs, since the revised chips seem to be suffering from yield issues (which IBM is claiming are now almost sorted out so that they're on target once more). There's also the small matter of having the first Power5 servers shipping a week or so before the conference, and the rumors that the next-generation 975/980 chip was being designed concurrently with that core. As I've shown elsewhere, just staging the clock linearly at the rate they managed with the 970 would allow the newer chip to reach an introductory speed of 3.08ghz. Perhaps the 970fx 90nm isn't even going to be in the PowerMac anymore, and will instead be replaced with a 130nm (or possibly a 90nm) PPC 975.

AL-FAMOUS said:
well done, a very comendable thing to do, giving to charity is a very difficault thing to do ( seeing how your still using a 700mhz emac ;) )

Even when I was in school and massively covered up in extracurricular activities, I was a member of the Anchor Club (a charitable organization), regularly gave donations of clothing, toys, and books to the Salvation Army, local hospices and shelters, and the battered women's home, and help coordinate artistic fundraisers for the local food bank. I've been a bit less active since college, but I still donate whenever I have some to spare.

i dont know why you think it is so so so hot?? at 1.8 the MAXIMUM is 42 watts, the pentium 4 at 2.8 is 68.4-69watts and they put that in a laptop i belive?? so why not a g5 in a slightly modified imac and powerbook???

The Pentium 4, when placed in a laptop, requires constant-on fans and gives a battery life of roughly an hour or so, which would completely kill the purpose of Apple's laptops. Also, I doubt that you'll find many 1" thick P4 laptops anywhere that don't also roast your lap, since it would be the same as having a small lightbulb against your lap - and that's just the chip!

EDIT: that thing you said about holding back comments on the loonacy that is wirless ipod docking--- very ammusing :D

Thanks. I'm not all doom and gloom. :cool:

Sped said:
Hopefully most people don't think wireless firewire would be used as a power source although that would be cool. I think the real future for fast wireless connections is wireless video. I won't take anyone's time by going through the math, but I think it is clear that transmitting high definition video for the purposes of recording or editing would significantly strain even Airport Extreme. Wouldn't it be nice if you could record a high definition source onto a PVR or computer (which you can but it is still pricey) and then edit it remotely?

I have one term for you: 802.15.3

It's a successor to 802.11 that's intended for multimedia streaming, and which they're aiming for bandwidth around half of the IEEE 1394A standard, or around 200Mbit/s. The entire purpose is streaming content, and I think we're going to have to wait for that, at least, before wireless displays become viable. The other option is to make a whole tablet PC to use as a monitor, with a real processor, real graphics card, and RAM of its own so that it can actually churn the video out put. It's possible to get around 100Mbit/s at the moment by using two 802.11g units and dedicating one to transmitting and one to receiving. It's being billed under various names by PC OEMs, but most are things like 802.11g Turbo. It's actually kind of in line with Apple's design philosophy at the moment, since they use the double-pumped up/down model in their RAM and FSB in the G5.

Squire said:
Maybe they read thatwendigo's posts and decided to stick with the G4. ;)/QUOTE]

Steve, if your people are listening: Kill the iMac and make a consumer tower. Use my list from a few pages back. Don't worry, I won't be mad. Just send me one!

:D

Nemesis said:
The "Glue Issue" was responsible for all 970fx chaos. One production manager at Fishkill introduced all new glue in processor assemblage (never tested before!), although he wasn't supposed to do so. For which reason? Maybe only few of them know. That guy was fired, and not only him -- the other one who dared to say (in usenet first) what was going on behind the iron curtains at IBM. Users were crazy and expecting -- what went wrong!?

Bzzzzt.

The wafers are brought in from outside, and a manufacturer was using a new process for their 300mm product that unexpectedly interacted with the greater point heat of the 90nm process. On top of that, IBM, Intel, AMD, and everyone else in the world are facing serious interference and crosstalk issues from signal bleeding at the smaller die size. These are being resolved, but it has illustrated that the life of traditional CMOD processors might be much more limited than anyone thought. Because of this, Apple's in a uniquely good position when compared to the other companies, because they're already onboard with the company that owns the most processor patents in the world, and who everyone else is licensing SOI and SSOI just to get this generation out the door.

During the last 2 days a news came that XServers were further delayed for many customers, so that sheds some new light on 970fx problems -- now I expect iMac to be delayed even further, because it seems that machine isn't top priority for Apple to put the new G5s in -- PowerMacs and XServers are topmost priority! If iMacs are to be announced at WWDC (lets hope!) they won't ship before August then.
And that's tragedy, if you ask me. I pray to God this won't happen!
God ... please ... ...

Actually, from what I've seen, the xServes are shipping. Where's this "news" you speak of, because I haven't seen hide nor hair of it?

The fact of the matter is that Apple is going to put their shiniest toys in the newest and most professionally oriented machines, simply because of economics. Looks at it this way - when you sell an equal number of units, you're making more money at the high end than you are at the low, because there's more room to charge for what you put in. The PowerMac and xServe, and perhaps even the PowerBook, are going to be the absolute focus for a company that's still mostly dependent on its professional audience for revenue.

Also, as a side note... Am I the only one to notice the bump in portable SuperDrive that came along with the eMac bump? The PowerBooks are at 4x slot-loading SuperDrive, so we're basically assured a rise in the tower's data rate, though the question is now whether Apple will skip 8x as consumer tech and go right to 12x.
 
JGowan said:


Okay, I'm going to take your post two ways:

1) You misunderstood me when I said the difference between the 15" and the 17" was small and unnoticable. What i *meant* to say that the difference between the thickness of the (edit: 15"/17" and the 12"). I am a power user and that little itsy bitsy difference isn't gong to kill anyone.

2) You truly believe that extra .18 (from the 17"; .17" compared to the 15") inches is awful. Yes, you can tell the difference when you compare the three laptops, but is it really that important?! The 12" is supposed to be "ultra-compact." It's not going to have the exact same deminsions as in thickness as the other two.

Come on, people! Nothing is ever going to be totally perfect. I personally think that this .18 inches is perfectly acceptable. They even had to make the 15" PB thick than the 17" to cool it. Hmmm, does that have to do with the fact that the 17" is bigger and can be cooled better. I see the same thing in the 12" to 15" / 17" comparison.


Nemesis, I think that you've just lost all you credibility in this thread and possibly forum with posting what seems to be false information and marketing it as true, only to come back later after defending your information, say that you think Apple will mess up and that you don't think they're really going to announce anything anyway. Try and post something meaningful, not just something to grab attention, and we'll learn to regard your posts as credible, or at least educated speculation.

Thatwendigo, I usually appreciate your logical views on wish lists and items of the sort, but in response to your "throwing out the 12" PowerBook" remark, I believe you've made a mistake. Obviously there's a market, or you wouldn't be seeing many, many people on these forums and elsewhere with the 12". It's meant to be ultra-compact and full featured, and that's what Apple has made it into and, I believe, will continue to develop it to fit this description. Also, before when I referred to Apple's switch from the Titanium PowerBook to the Aluminum PowerBooks, I was simply pointing out that Apple has let a product skip cycles before, at least half cycles, to finish developing technology, to wait for the market to be ready, or if the current product still is selling well (someone tell me if there is another reason).


Whew, I believe that was my longest post. :D

BTW, I'm a regular as of sometime recently! :D Almost to avatar-hood! :p Now, to just create my avatar... .hmmm.... ;)
 
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