Game Developers Discuss How Apple Could Improve Gaming on Apple TV

[TheMacDaddy1]

Don't worry Apple will get gaming aspect of the Apple TV nailed around the time of the PS7 and Xbox 6....right after they update the Mac Mini.

If it is not the iPhone, iWatch or iPad Apple does not care.

The Apple TV marketed correctly and with a Apple branded controller could have huge potential for gaming. It could seriously impact Nintendo as the lower end (hardware wise) gaming console.

 

[obiwan]

Nothing ever changes. Apple has always had a lukewarm involvement in games going way back to MacOS. Apple made a big fanfare about OpenGL when it was introduced in MacOS X. Remember Halo was supposed to be the killer game to come out for the Mac? Then Microsoft went out and bought Bungie, and launched the title on the XBox instead.

A few major titles were ported across then Apple walked away and left developer support to dwindle. They historically have never consistently pushed games on their platforms, nor updated the hardware/driver support in a timely manner. Then fall out with GPU vendors (NVidia anyone?). I can't see this changing, with the AppleTV anytime soon (which is a shame).

 

[nt5672]

Apple devices these days only exists to lock one into Apple's ecosystem. Like Microsoft in the 1990s. Apple has forgotten how to compete with better design (both technology and fashion). Today they rely only on fashion and their ability to lock people out. I'll never own a service or device (other than iPhone or Mac) from Apple until they pull their head out and return to making great products that aren't locked in.

 

[trainwrecka]

Apple isn't going to make their own gaming controller unless there was some sort of specific in-house technology that gave it functional differentiation versus competitors. They've largely abandoned manufacturing hardware where industrial design was really the only differentiating factor (WiFi routers, Cinema Display, etc). I think the bundle idea is probably the far more likely scenario.

They don't understand how important a standard is when it comes to gaming. This is shocking, considering how much Apple likes standards. Having one controller from Apple for all developers to code for and all hardware developers to mimic, would've saved gaming on the Apple TV.

Instead, you are forced to develop around a bizarre device remote meant for navigating content.

Sadly, this ship sailed.

 

[TheMacDaddy1]

1) Better Graphics APIs, 2) Better hardware.

We now have metal that's a nice touch, but considering DirectX came out in 1995. I think Apple has a long way before it takes those kinds of APIs seriously. We are unlikely to get better hardware until there is an administration change. 11 years ago I brought a MBP with a NVIDIA graphics card that was mere months old, and smoked many desktops. Now we buy MBPs with middling underclocked ATI cards, or worse intel integrated cards. RAM is always the bare minimum with Apple products, as is storage. The Deltas between Apple and other PC manufacturers have been getting worse for years now, as is price. Apple needs to stop trying to cut corners and make beasts again, at reasonable prices, not "grandma spec" at fashion accessory prices. THEN we can talk about gaming on Apple products.

The hardware is there. The latest Apple TV uses the A10X fusion which is in the iPad Pro which can play games really well.

Everything is basically there already. You have a huge library of iOS games that need a tiny, tiny porting effort and the hardware in the box is basically the same as a iPad Pro. Create a controller, offer it as an add-on or in a higher priced skew......market the heck out of it. Seriously it would take so little effort.

Another thing they could do is update the platform, hardware wise, as they roll out new iPhone with new CPU/GPU's. That would not be hard and it would be at a much faster pace than Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo. "Think Different". It could be their next Billion Dollar business if they put forth just a little bit of effort.

 

[Rogifan]

It’s pretty obvious Apple has never cared much about gaming or gamers. Games thrive on iOS in spite of Apple. I’m not sure why the tech media is still banging on this Apple TV as a gaming platform drum. If they want to write stories about Apple TV write about how it should be cheaper and how the TV app could be a better experience. Leave games to companies that care about them.

 

[Lennholm]

They don't understand how important a standard is when it comes to gaming. This is shocking, considering how much Apple likes standards. Having one controller from Apple for all developers to code for and all hardware developers to mimic, would've saved gaming on the Apple TV.

Instead, you are forced to develop around a bizarre device remote meant for navigating content.

Sadly, this ship sailed.

Apple only likes standards when they get to dictate them.

 

[Eorlas]

Apple didn't want Steam Link on their platform, so in my opinion that just makes them anti gaming. They take protectionism to the next level.

They have never even mentioned the steam link drama anymore.

The steam link drama was really really tragic. Weird thing is apparently Apple changed some store guidelines right after the denial, and the beta was updated to remove the ability to purchase through the link app?

This was back in June so I'm not sure what is the hold up now. Maybe we'll see something during the fall.

 

[Jimmy James]

I would buy an Apple TV if it had great gaming support. Then I’d probably utilize some other services on it. I’m sure this works both ways. Big miss.

 

[smeagol]

Last week, Minecraft: Apple TV Edition was removed from the tvOS App Store and developer Mojang announced that anyone who was still playing the game on Apple TV would no longer see any updates or further support. In a statement, the company said that it needed to reallocate resources "to the platforms that our players use the most."

In a new article shared over the weekend, Ars Technica spoke with a few game developers in the wake of Minecraft's removal from the tvOS App Store, attempting to gain a consensus on what they think Apple needs to do to make the Apple TV a true gaming device. Strange Flavour CEO Aaron Fothergill said that Apple could do this by doing a better job of supporting Game Center across platforms, and creating its own gaming controller to bundle in with an Apple TV, "so there's an Apple TV being sold specifically for games."

Developer Patrick Hogan also indicated support for Apple to build its own full-featured gaming controller and include it in "every" Apple TV box, while other developers Ars Technica spoke with believed an optional gaming Apple TV bundle would suffice. Continuing, Hogan said Apple's marketing for Apple TV should emphasize gaming more, and the company should "spend a lot of money on funding platform exclusives, ports, and presence at every major gaming expo and conference to break the chicken-egg problem of getting customers to make it viable to devs."
Although the fourth and fifth-generation Apple TV devices have the hardware for powerful gaming support, Apple's actions so far have not indicated it intends to lean into presenting the Apple TV as a video game console. Even Game Center, which previously had a dedicated iOS app and social features, was downgraded to an optional integration for third-party gaming apps in iOS 10.

Apple also hindered gaming development on tvOS at the start by forcing developers to build in support for its touch-based Siri Remote in every gaming app, despite the fact that the Apple TV supports third-party Bluetooth controllers. Apple dropped this requirement within the fourth-generation Apple TV's first year on the market, but many developers mentioned that this left a poor first impression for the Apple TV as a true gaming device.

Still, most of the developers that Ars Technica spoke to remain positive about Apple TV's future as a gaming device. Team Alto lead Ryan Cash commented on the removal of Minecraft, bemused that Mojang and Microsoft completely axed the game as the Apple TV platform "continues to grow."
As of now, Apple's focus on the Apple TV is likely its upcoming string of exclusive television shows, which are rumored to be free to customers who own an Apple TV, iPhone, or iPad. Looking to the future, the successor to the Apple TV 4K isn't expected until 2019 or later, as Apple typically goes a few years in between generations of Apple TV, unlike its other products which get more consistent annual updates. Because of this, there have not been any solid rumors yet as to what features or improvements will be coming to the next Apple TV.

Article Link: Game Developers Discuss How Apple Could Improve Gaming on Apple TV

 

[jonplackett]

I was so excited about apple TV when it launched - I even won the developer raffle and got one for free. It seemed like a no brainer for Apple to try to leverage their iOS developers to turn the Apple TV into a console-slayer. They even knew they couldn't do any TV-provider-slaying because they failed in all those negotiations.

But then they launched it with that pathetic excuse for a remote controller. It sucks even as a TV remote never mind for games. You can't see which way round it is without looking down, you can't pass it to someone without accidentally skipping the film forward half an hour. Siri is (as always) a bit of a joke. It's so tiny you can never even find it.

It's such a massive missed opportunity. All they had to do was include a couple of bluetooth joypads in there. Nothing too fancy, and they could have killed it. As it was there was no sensible person thinking "hey this looks like somewhere I can make/play a great game".

Trouble is they only think of other products in terms of how many more iPhones it will help them sell.

 

[Jedwardoo]

This just sounds as a fantasy if ever Apple would be serious in another billion dollar business. They should support and improve gaming in this new platform. So far it seems to be desolate and tumbleweeds tumbling.

I still wish they do make ATV to be a gaming device with exclusive games since Apple has been all about exclusived and ecosystems.

Last week, Minecraft: Apple TV Edition was removed from the tvOS App Store and developer Mojang announced that anyone who was still playing the game on Apple TV would no longer see any updates or further support. In a statement, the company said that it needed to reallocate resources "to the platforms that our players use the most."

In a new article shared over the weekend, Ars Technica spoke with a few game developers in the wake of Minecraft's removal from the tvOS App Store, attempting to gain a consensus on what they think Apple needs to do to make the Apple TV a true gaming device. Strange Flavour CEO Aaron Fothergill said that Apple could do this by doing a better job of supporting Game Center across platforms, and creating its own gaming controller to bundle in with an Apple TV, "so there's an Apple TV being sold specifically for games."

Developer Patrick Hogan also indicated support for Apple to build its own full-featured gaming controller and include it in "every" Apple TV box, while other developers Ars Technica spoke with believed an optional gaming Apple TV bundle would suffice. Continuing, Hogan said Apple's marketing for Apple TV should emphasize gaming more, and the company should "spend a lot of money on funding platform exclusives, ports, and presence at every major gaming expo and conference to break the chicken-egg problem of getting customers to make it viable to devs."
Although the fourth and fifth-generation Apple TV devices have the hardware for powerful gaming support, Apple's actions so far have not indicated it intends to lean into presenting the Apple TV as a video game console. Even Game Center, which previously had a dedicated iOS app and social features, was downgraded to an optional integration for third-party gaming apps in iOS 10.

Apple also hindered gaming development on tvOS at the start by forcing developers to build in support for its touch-based Siri Remote in every gaming app, despite the fact that the Apple TV supports third-party Bluetooth controllers. Apple dropped this requirement within the fourth-generation Apple TV's first year on the market, but many developers mentioned that this left a poor first impression for the Apple TV as a true gaming device.

Still, most of the developers that Ars Technica spoke to remain positive about Apple TV's future as a gaming device. Team Alto lead Ryan Cash commented on the removal of Minecraft, bemused that Mojang and Microsoft completely axed the game as the Apple TV platform "continues to grow."
As of now, Apple's focus on the Apple TV is likely its upcoming string of exclusive television shows, which are rumored to be free to customers who own an Apple TV, iPhone, or iPad. Looking to the future, the successor to the Apple TV 4K isn't expected until 2019 or later, as Apple typically goes a few years in between generations of Apple TV, unlike its other products which get more consistent annual updates. Because of this, there have not been any solid rumors yet as to what features or improvements will be coming to the next Apple TV.

Article Link: Game Developers Discuss How Apple Could Improve Gaming on Apple TV

 

[smulji]

They'll get there, but Apple is certainly taking the long road. They need to partner with someone like Steam though.

What Apple needs to do is create first-party gaming content like they're doing with their TV initiative.

 

[smeagol]

Apple is not going to include a controller in the box, it will likely be a $50 accessory, but that's not the biggest problem. If they had to design a controller it would probably be terrible. Their track record on input devices like the hockey-puck mouse, the Magic Mouse, and horrible Apple TV remote speaks for itself. Form over function

 

[Jedwardoo]

I think someone did raise that. Its just a possibility that it may not be big enough for their attention. Even though the gaming market is HUGE! They really should do something about it. Since you’re a dev. Didn’t you give feedback about possible ATV gaming bundles to them? Seems like a great idea, I have only seen 2 third party ATV compatible controllers. I wonder if they will ever make their own 1st party controllers, like Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo.

What’s your thoughts?

I was so excited about apple TV when it launched - I even won the developer raffle and got one for free. It seemed like a no brainer for Apple to try to leverage their iOS developers to turn the Apple TV into a console-slayer. They even knew they couldn't do any TV-provider-slaying because they failed in all those negotiations.

But then they launched it with that pathetic excuse for a remote controller. It sucks even as a TV remote never mind for games. You can't see which way round it is without looking down, you can't pass it to someone without accidentally skipping the film forward half an hour. Siri is (as always) a bit of a joke. It's so tiny you can never even find it.

It's such a massive missed opportunity. All they had to do was include a couple of bluetooth joypads in there. Nothing too fancy, and they could have killed it. As it was there was no sensible person thinking "hey this looks like somewhere I can make/play a great game".

Trouble is they only think of other products in terms of how many more iPhones it will help them sell.

 

[DNichter]

What Apple needs to do is create first-party gaming content like they're doing with their TV initiative.

I can't see them doing this, but I guess it's possible considering their move into original content. I think they would need to buy a team.

 

[Jedwardoo]

Sadly the design team/department overrules everything. Oh Jony Ive.

Apple is not going to include a controller in the box, it will likely be a $50 accessory, but that's not the biggest problem. If they had to design a controller it would probably be terrible. Their track record on input devices like the hockey-puck mouse, the Magic Mouse, and horrible Apple TV remote speaks for itself. Form over function

[doublepost=1539615960][/doublepost]I really hope and wish they buy out a team or company. Hardware and software/games. Like how Microsft bought Halo for their exclusive games.

I can't see them doing this, but I guess it's possible considering their move into original content. I think they would need to buy a team.

 

[JeffPerrin]

Hard to believe Apple is completely ignoring the console gaming industry. Re-defining console games could revitalize the Apple TV for sure. A couple ideas:

1. Buy a major game dev house to port A-list title games to the ATV.
2. Sell an Apple-branded game controller (maybe an Apple TV "Game bundle")
3. Create a Steam-sytle subscription service for gaming on the big screen.
4. Update ATV with latest CPU/GPU for best performance (make it a "Gaming Edition" ATV?)

Most important is for Apple to realize that mobile games are played on mobile devices. Living room gaming means real controllers and high-level performance.

 

[blackcrayon]

Because it wouldnt take a lot for the Apple TV to be a decent gaming platform for those people who have had no interest in a console. Kinda of similar to how the Wii combined with certain games was credited with getting folks gaming who never traditionally would purchase a gaming platform.

Apple TV is already widely popular for video streaming, it represents an opportunity to expand services & software for Apple. Now given how wealthy Apple is nowadays, they probably dont care as it's too small an opportunity for them. (frankly, im surprised they havent ditched Apple TV completely)

You're surprised they haven't ditched Apple TV? Why would they? They're releasing their own TV shows, only makes sense to offer them from (with the "best experience") from their own box.

Even if it were just an "Airplay Dongle" it would have a space in their lineup.

 

[Lennholm]

Apple is not going to include a controller in the box, it will likely be a $50 accessory, but that's not the biggest problem. If they had to design a controller it would probably be terrible. Their track record on input devices like the hockey-puck mouse, the Magic Mouse, and horrible Apple TV remote speaks for itself. Form over function

$50??? Try $150. Just look at the ridiculous pricing of "Magic" kbd/mouse/trackpad.

 

[DNichter]

Hard to believe Apple is completely ignoring the console gaming industry. Re-defining console games could revitalize the Apple TV for sure.

I agree, definitely opportunity there, but I don't necessarily blame them for not making it a priority. They have been focused on securing their place in the music/tv/movies area before gaming, which makes sense since they had been a major player for years.

 

[Konigi]

Good post. I feel there is so much potential for the AppleTV device but it simply stalled. Even with the tvOS updates, we barely see any significant improvements. And it seems like Apple does not have a strategy to convince devs to invest in it. If they could listen to both the customers (who have many great suggestions, including in this thread) and devs (because they are the ones who will make great games and apps and improve the AppleTV's quality), they would have something quite impressive.

But no. It remains stuck in the past. Yeah, we can stream, play some Atari-era games and so on. But it feels like it's not jumping in the wagon of the real, full-potential of the Apple ecosystem.

 

[bluecoast]

Someone please just take Apple TV out to the back and put it out of its misery.

Apple completely failed to understand what gaming devs and casual gamers wanted a few years back and squandered a great opportunity to build a tv and casual gaming platform as they were so enamoured by their new (expensive) remote.

I don’t think that they’re going to get a second chance on this.

 

[AppleHaterLover]

This is an insanely stupid concept.

Why the hell would I want to play modified cellphone games, running on cellphone hardware, on a 4K TV?

Guess what, if I want to sit down and play a game, there are consoles that provide an experience that is 1000x times better.

Honestly I'm at a loss as to what the purpose of the Apple TV even is. My TV already has Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc etc etc. Nobody buys anything from iTunes anymore. They should call it the "AirPlay Machine" and sell it for $50. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

My Opinion (as a HUUUUUUUUGE fan of this particular Apple product and its potential)...

Use just about the very same strategy they are using with original video content. Allocate a good block of cash to promote TV gaming, build/license an Apple-branded controller, offer the Apple-branded games with controller bundle for a subsidized (by big block of cash) price (or perhaps MAX out on the aggressive by duplicating the video-service rumor of "free"- imagine all TV 4 & 5 owners getting a package from Apple with a game controller inside and a voucher for some of these new TV games. Immediately, all of the millions of TV 4 & 5s already in homes would become legit game machines). "Persuade" devs with existing games already on TV and not yet (but on iDevices) to support the controller at the launch of this bundle.

Start bundling at least ONE controller in the box with TV (sell a second at a price to recoup the cost loss on the first free one), and "steal" from the PSX and Xbox example by including a "game" gift card/voucher for a few free game downloads so that new buyers can try out gaming on TV.

If Apple just can't bring itself to make a controller, partner with one who will, much like Apple has partnered with entities like Harmon Kardon for Apple-influenced speakers. Then bundle a voucher for a free Apple+Partner game controller plus a few app store games with each TV.

Use some of the block of cash to commission at least some exclusives only for TV... just like the original video content will be exclusive to Apple devices.

The block of cash will entice developers as only cash can. The implied partnership with Apple will also be a heavy draw. An annual gaming event- maybe just a dedicated segment at WWDC- could formally highlight a variety of impressive games on Apple hardware (probably EXCLUSIVELY on Apple hardware for a period of time). The hype, rumors and buildup around this will fire up thinking about TV as a gaming device too. The momentum alone will likely inspire fence sitter devs to (re)consider building other games to be in-store when this rolls out.

Little can imply the "Wow!" of Metal advancements like impressive gaming demos. I can't get that excited about being able to send a text message .003% faster than last year, but show me some wow gaming graphics and new hardware always looks more impressive (and necessary, even if only by the idea that new hardware will run this game as good as it can run?).

And dedicate some visible talent to this initiative (NOT by adding this onto one of the existing player's plates so it's just "one more thing" for an Eddy or similar to juggle)... including staking out space at major game dev events around the world to illustrate that Apple is now in the "game to win."

Apple commissioned bundles of (updated) top 5 "iOS games of the year" from the past decade to revive some big-screen interest in old favorites that were once most popular? Personally, I still have much retro love for very old oldies-but-goodies circa 1980s arcade games. Retro iOS games (can they be tagged "retro" in <10 years) are probably still near & dear to iDevice owner's hearts. Slightly updated versions to run on the biggest screen in the house via TV would scratch this itch. And those games are largely ALREADY coded, maybe looking for some new life.

And flip flop on the Steam decision. If that was about money- as I heavily suspect it was- work with Steam to cut Apple in for Steam purchases through- or used with- TV. Personally, I think the whole concept of being able to use PC power elsewhere in the house to power games on an TV seems too good of a concept to NOT push through in spite of how many nickels can be squeezed out of it. What a great way to get the MAJORS on TV almost overnight... and perhaps spur on some upgraded Mac sales to boot.

Bigger picture? If Apple can finally opt to actually get in this game and seriously focus on it (which may seem to be a gigantic IF based on Apple's historical lack of interest), acquire a Nintendo or similar? It's not like finding cash for such a purchase would be a huge hurdle. A Nintendo-type acquisition could BUY the dedicated focus & gaming-talent/experience much like the video billion is buying professionals that know how to make good original video.

TV has such incredible potential in many ways (beyond just this one). I wish Apple would toss what is relatively "chump change" at it with some dedicated talent focused on treating TV like IT is iPhone.