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Game Developers Discuss How Apple Could Improve Gaming on Apple TV

Yeah, I’ve said before that creating their own controller, with all of their technologies (wireless, Taptic), is the only way to revive gaming on the Apple TV. Some would argue they did this with the current controller that they codeveloped, but a lot of it is developer and customer perception of Apples commitment to gaming on the platform.
Including it along with preinstalled games in a gaming bundle is a brilliant idea to boost gaming further.
No current plans that I know of but it would be a mistake not to do so.
 
From the article:

"...last year, game developer Raw Fury lamented that the Apple TV version of its fairly successful indie game Kingdom: New Lands had only sold 600 copies, compared to 54,000 on iOS"

I'll add that I know from experience a music app can rank in the top 25 apps for that category with only low double-digit downloads.

Having such low download numbers all around is worrisome for the platform. If Apple can't figure out how to do console-style gaming on the Apple TV, I doubt tvOS will be around for the long term.
 
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blackcrayon said:
You're surprised they haven't ditched Apple TV? Why would they? They're releasing their own TV shows, only makes sense to offer them from (with the "best experience") from their own box.

Even if it were just an "Airplay Dongle" it would have a space in their lineup.
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Yes, as I wrote. Apply TV is pocket change to apple. They've ditched other moderately successful product lines (like the much loved Airport routers).
 
I really wanted Apple TV to be good for my Grandkids. But the IN-APP Purchase of most of the games has killed it for us. Way too much advertising in the games that it hurts actual game play. Not a gamer myself, maybe the cause is the games are sold too cheaply so IN-APP is the only way to make money. For me they need to solve this problem and maybe have a NO IN-APP section to the App Store for games.
 
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I dont even think the latest Apple tv is even powerful enough to compete with the Xbox, or PS4 types. Even if all the restrictions were lifted by Apple for gaming. I think the hardware would limit what you could do. So the first thing you would need to do is upgrade the internals.
 
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Apple needs to come up with an easy way to run games on their high powered iPhones / iPad's on the TV. We might get a taste of this with the iPad this year (since USB-C --> HDMI). They have enough power to run games well on TV's.

Go down the road a few years, with CPU/GPU upgrades on the iphones / iPads and make the connection wireless so you can just walk up to your TV and game....that would be the end of widespread console markets (we need a wireless HDMI standard 1st though).
 
gnipgnop said:
... They've largely abandoned manufacturing hardware where industrial design was really the only differentiating factor (WiFi routers, Cinema Display, etc) ...
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It looks like they abandoned the very idea of offering customers an Apple infrastructure from the bottom up - or just don't know how to do it anymore. Home routers have a HUGE potential - you just have to see it. Imagine Apple offering a device which integrates a router - a hub for a wireless mesh - a security device for a "smart home" with a quality IPS/firewall/webfilter/VPN server (probably in cooperation with some company knowing how to do it well, e.g. Checkpoint) - it could be a blockbuster. The router is a heart of your home infrastructure - but Apple completely missed it, despite that with a trust Apple users normally have in the company it could be more than success. Nah, we better make one more "smart speaker". Phones sell fine, nothing to worry about.
 
It's not going to happen, likely ever;
  1. Apple's hardware sucks
  2. Apple's hardware REALLY sucks when it comes to GPUs
  3. Apple's history of gaming is terrible
  4. Apple would need to create a console... it would be priced so high it would be an insult, we all know this
  5. People's expectations are sky high, so they'll want AAA titles on and NOBODY wants to develop/port for yet another platform
  6. All of those things would take years to happen anyway
Just look at the Nvidia Shield TV; Awesome specs (Tegra GPU), great controller, but limited games EVEN THOUGH it's running Android and there are plenty of games available on it but NOT specifically for Android TV. There are some great games for it (NBA Jam, Real Racing 3, Evoland, etc) but there should be plenty more.

Codemasters teased the hell out of everyone about GRID Autosport coming to Android.. it's been delayed for months. Carmageddon, works on phones.. not on Android TV.

Old school Nintendo emulators run GREAT on it though.
 
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It is my long-held belief that Apple doesn't understand gaming. The fact that gaming became so popular on iOS is purely by accident due to all of the sensors the iPhone had, the flexibility of a capacitive touch display, and the widespread appeal of the iPhone itself which brought in a lot of developers who found an easy to use SDK. Much later they added things like Metal but that was also applicable to more than games. Apple added SDK support for controllers because of all the people hacking together less than ideal BT keyboard workarounds. I don't think they want to get into the business of gaming hardware because it is historically low margin.
 
bluecoast said:
Someone please just take Apple TV out to the back and put it out of its misery.

Apple completely failed to understand what gaming devs and casual gamers wanted a few years back and squandered a great opportunity to build a tv and casual gaming platform as they were so enamoured by their new (expensive) remote.

I don’t think that they’re going to get a second chance on this.
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I absolutely love my Apple TV (ATV4) and yet I have never once desired to play a game on it.

I think they should concentrate on making it the absolute best streaming media player they possibly can. The user experience is already worlds ahead of its competitors; the main thing holding it back is price, which was not really a factor for me (I watch enough TV that I'm willing to invest more in a set top box) but I know is a huge factor for many people. That's why the Chromecast has been so successful even though it's a pile of smelly turds as far as UI and performance.
 
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I'm sorry but mobile gaming stinks particularly PvP games. Lag is horrible, even when you connect your phone via usb-c to hdmi. There is lag also with a wireless controller during mobile gaming. I play PUGB and War Wings but when I want to game seriously I use my gaming rig I built or my ps3 or ps4. 0 lag all fun
 
I'm not sure gaming on a home based system will ever be in Apple's headlights, so to speak. I think game councils in general are falling in sales, yes? I worked for Sony back in the era of Playstation 2 and 3 I think, and was at the introduction of the X-box. But it seems like those devices are spending all their time to grow into media devices WHILE holding onto the fairly small very hardcore game market. You cold say that the hardcore gamers are those devices 'base' to use a political term. And they absolutely need them to show up. But I don't think they are growing that base much. I know from my 11 year old and her friends, few of them ask for a Playstation or X-Box as gifts. Anyway, I suspect Apple is always internally fighting over the how much to double down on games on the Apple TV. We have a controller for our Apple TV and it gets used even less than our X-Box. So that's not a good sign. I'm also willing to admit, I am not a prime target market for game councils. But what interests me is that the kids I know in my daughters age generally don't care either.
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TheFluffyDuck said:
1) Better Graphics APIs, 2) Better hardware.

We now have metal that's a nice touch, but considering DirectX came out in 1995. I think Apple has a long way before it takes those kinds of APIs seriously. We are unlikely to get better hardware until there is an administration change. 11 years ago I brought a MBP with a NVIDIA graphics card that was mere months old, and smoked many desktops. Now we buy MBPs with middling underclocked ATI cards, or worse intel integrated cards. RAM is always the bare minimum with Apple products, as is storage. The Deltas between Apple and other PC manufacturers have been getting worse for years now, as is price. Apple needs to stop trying to cut corners and make beasts again, at reasonable prices, not "grandma spec" at fashion accessory prices. THEN we can talk about gaming on Apple products.
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I think in general gaming isn't the biggest draw for picking a device like a laptop for most consumers. It's like a side effect for people who need a higher powered system for work. But I agree with you, if you really want a laptop for gaming, and that's the most important thing guiding your purchase, you can get more powerful systems on the Windows side. But as you know the top quality ones are not cheap.
 
Not having a select button or L3/R3 clicky sticks on MFi controllers make it a lot harder than you’d think to port console games over as well.
 
zorinlynx said:
I absolutely love my Apple TV (ATV4) and yet I have never once desired to play a game on it.
Click to expand...

You're needs or lack of needs speak for yourself only. So what if you don't have the desire? Even if you had the option, NOBODY is forcing you to play games on it. This is just like the mentality on this forum in regards to the headphone jack on iPhones; I use bluetooth, therefor 3.5mm must go.

I've got an Nvidia Shield TV; I've spent many hours playing Real Racing 3 on it. If GRID Autosport came out for Android TV, I'd be glued to my TV.

zorinlynx said:
That's why the Chromecast has been so successful even though it's a pile of smelly turds as far as UI and performance.
Click to expand...

Uh... Chromecast doesn't really have an interface. Are you thinking of the new Android TV interface? If so, I'd agree, it's ugly as sin.
 
Theu should L3 and R3 buttons to the mFI protocol to start off doing it right...
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ersan191 said:
Not having a select button or L3/R3 clicky sticks on MFi controllers make it a lot harder than you’d think to port console games over as well.
Click to expand...


Just posted without seeing youre post, was the first thing i tought of.
 
trainwrecka said:
They don't understand how important a standard is when it comes to gaming. This is shocking, considering how much Apple likes standards. Having one controller from Apple for all developers to code for and all hardware developers to mimic, would've saved gaming on the Apple TV.
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MFi is the standard for iOS and tvOS. MFi controllers aren't really that different from what comes with current gen consoles...dual analog sticks, direction pad, A/B/X/Y buttons, upper and lower sets of triggers. The issue for developers is not the standard, but rather getting more of those controllers into people's hands up front, thus the bundle idea etc.
 
bladerunner2000 said:
It's not going to happen, likely ever;
  1. Apple's hardware sucks
  2. Apple's hardware REALLY sucks when it comes to GPUs
  3. Apple's history of gaming is terrible
  4. Apple would need to create a console... it would be priced so high it would be an insult, we all know this
  5. People's expectations are sky high, so they'll want AAA titles on and NOBODY wants to develop/port for yet another platform
  6. All of those things would take years to happen anyway
Just look at the Nvidia Shield TV; Awesome specs (Tegra GPU), great controller, but limited games EVEN THOUGH it's running Android and there are plenty of games available on it but NOT specifically for Android TV. There are some great games for it (NBA Jam, Real Racing 3, Evoland, etc) but there should be plenty more.

Codemasters teased the hell out of everyone about GRID Autosport coming to Android.. it's been delayed for months. Carmageddon, works on phones.. not on Android TV.

Old school Nintendo emulators run GREAT on it though.
Click to expand...
A series chips have monster GPU’s - the Tegra X1 in a Nintendo switch/shield tv is about half as powerful as an A10X, and the A12X is coming out this month... You don’t know what you’re talking about.
 
ersan191 said:
A series chips have monster GPU’s - the Tegra X1 in a Nintendo switch/shield tv is about half as powerful as an A10X, and the A12X is coming out this month... You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Click to expand...

No, YOU don't know what you're talking about. I never made the comparison, but since you brought it up, let's point out this embarrassing fact:

The Tegra X1 in the Nvidia Shield is a THREE year old chip and still keeps up with Apple's steaming pile of crap.
 
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Honestly Apple TV is my main gaming console (or streaming thin client I guess is a more apt description) simply because I compiled and run a port of Moonlight for it. I use it almost every single day, but it’s a hacky workaround (I don’t even use MFi controllers because they have less buttons, I have an RPi running VirtualHere and use official Xbox 360 controllers instead).

It is a crying shame that Apple blocked the release of the Steam Link app to bring this sort of convenience to everyone else.
 
alwaysbeincontact said:
all it will take is a decent controller and the Apple TV could get into the market with XBOX and PS4 systems with gaming
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Not really, the GPU in the ATV is still horrifically gimped compared to XBOX and PS4. Sure you could get games on the ATV, but you're not going to be playing Battlefield or anything of the like.
 
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DNichter said:
I can't see them doing this, but I guess it's possible considering their move into original content. I think they would need to buy a team.
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Exactly. I've always advocated for Apple buying Nintendo if it wants to get serious about gaming. Their two cultures would be a great fit I think.
 
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