Doesn't impress me. They took market share from WinMo and Palm.
It's not hard to be the best of a crap lot of OSes. They didn't steal any market from Apple. (I concede that Apple didn't gain, but they weren't losers either.)
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Gartner Pegs Apple as World's Seventh Largest Mobile Phone Manufacturer
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Doesn't impress me. They took market share from WinMo and Palm.
It's not hard to be the best of a crap lot of OSes. They didn't steal any market from Apple. (I concede that Apple didn't gain, but they weren't losers either.)
Yes, which is why they are one of the most valuable brands in the world and soon to be one of the most profitable companies in the US.
Millions of people wouldn't be buying the iphone if it was, as you call it, expensive.
Are you one of those people who want Apple to go back to perpetual underdog status? Or just a loser?
Have you been living under a rock? or just not reading US biased tech blogs and forums? There seems to be lots of idiots of the highest order.
The N97 was/is ok - not brilliant, but ok. It suffered Nokia's typical first release firmware syndrome. They've largely fixed most of the issues now in the firmware. It could do with some more RAM but you know what, so could the iPhone and most Android phones.
I agree about them dominating the 'low end' although I can still do things on a 'low end' £65 PAYG Nokia 5230 that I can't do on an iPhone so I'm not sure that going by price alone justifies what is 'high end'.
Nokia's most expensive 'phone' is the N900 at £479 inc VAT unlocked. Most of their smartphones are in the £100 to £300 range unlocked. The 5800 for instance is £300 and the new X6 is £299 (16GB).
iPhones in the UK start at £349 for the crappy 3G model and rise to £549. And those are LOCKED to a carrier. O2 ask for £15 to unlock but will remove the free internet allowance even if you stay with them and Orange £20 after 3 months on PAYG.
If you want a locked Nokia 5230 smartphone, you can get those for about £65 from the Carphone Warehouse and you'll get free sat nav, push email and OTA sync/updates plus you can use VoIP on a 5230.
On contracts, generally iPhones are more expensive than others. A Nokia 5230 can be had for free with a £10 contract for instance. Can't get an iPhone that cheap.
Most of that is in Symbian^3 and the apps you develop using QT will run on S60 3rd Edition dating back to phones like the N95.
I agree though, that's been Symbian's problem. Nokia kept with their button biased S60 interface for too long and it dominated the OS instead of the much better touch based UIQ interface or even S80. The core OS is really strong for phones compared to bloated desktop OSs like Android or iPhoneOS that require expensive hardware just to run.
I think the other problem they have to address is 'Symbian Signed'. It's much more expensive to develop apps on Symbian because of the strict application signing process. Apple App store policy aside, it's much cheaper and easier to develop iPhone apps.
On the other hand, the free services Nokia includes with every smartphone are pretty good compared to Google and Apple. Nokia seem to be putting much more effort there recently. Ovi Maps navigation for free beats the crap out of Google Maps or TomTom.
I like Android's cursor control
One big issue I have with Apple's methods of text editing is with cursor control being limited to touch. There are times when my fingers are just too big, or the screen is just not smart enough to judge where I intend to be pointing. The markers on Cut/Paste solve some of that issue, but if I just want to change or add or delete a single letter, it can take many attempts just to get close. I often wind up just backspacing out way more letters than I need to change and have to retype it all just to make a single digit change. Not "It Just Works."
The Android phones I have used provide some device that allows the cursor to be moved with much finer control in situations where finger pointing just doesn't work. A trackball, a cursor pad, or an optical trackball.
One big issue I have with Apple's methods of text editing is with cursor control being limited to touch. There are times when my fingers are just too big, or the screen is just not smart enough to judge where I intend to be pointing. The markers on Cut/Paste solve some of that issue, but if I just want to change or add or delete a single letter, it can take many attempts just to get close. I often wind up just backspacing out way more letters than I need to change and have to retype it all just to make a single digit change. Not "It Just Works."
The Android phones I have used provide some device that allows the cursor to be moved with much finer control in situations where finger pointing just doesn't work. A trackball, a cursor pad, or an optical trackball.
That's way it's IMHO. I don't care how it works for others, I only care how it works for me.
Sorry Lord Vader
Sorry if I offended (and I recognize that your response doesn't necessarily say that I did...I am only reacting to the fact that you responded at all to the distinction). I didn't mean to write (and I don't think I wrote) that you were wrong. I only intended to share my experience and add further balance to the dialog. I acknowledge that iPhone OS was a trailblazer, but, imho, as with OS-X, the world has advanced to the point that in some ways the Apple product is better, and in some ways the competition is better. All in the eyes of the beholders.
Sorry if I offended (and I recognize that your response doesn't necessarily say that I did...I am only reacting to the fact that you responded at all to the distinction). I didn't mean to write (and I don't think I wrote) that you were wrong. I only intended to share my experience and add further balance to the dialog. I acknowledge that iPhone OS was a trailblazer, but, imho
, as with OS-X, the world has advanced to the point that in some ways the Apple product is better, and in some ways the competition is better. All in the eyes of the beholders.
Sorry if I offended (and I recognize that your response doesn't necessarily say that I did...I am only reacting to the fact that you responded at all to the distinction). I didn't mean to write (and I don't think I wrote) that you were wrong. I only intended to share my experience and add further balance to the dialog. I acknowledge that iPhone OS was a trailblazer, but, imho
All cool
So you agree with me. Good. The iPhone is priced around the same as all other similar phones. That other phones manage to get better subsidies under contract is not my problem.
Xperia X10, Milestone, Nexus One. They're all priced around the same as iPhone. Same for the Blackberries, same for the N900.
The iPhone is not expensive nor is it special. You want expensive, you buy a Vertu (made by Nokia btw). Those are 8k USD+ phones.
Exactly my issues with iPhone OS copy/paste, finally an objective view without all the kool-aid getting in the way. Copy/paste is horrendous on iPhone OS.
I think you misunderstood my post. Go back and read it in context of the quote included. And look at what that quote was talking about.
You're right...during one of the worst global economic downturns since the Great Depression, Apple just managed to not only maintain their business model of selling "expensive" devices to their "niche market", but they have seen one blowout record quarter after another.
How will they go on? Might as well just shut down the company and give the money back to the shareholders as a wise man once suggested.
Consider this: LG sells a phone for £10 that does phone calls and text messages, nothing else. Put £10 for calls on it, charge it, put it into your car in case you have an emergency and need to call someone. It's not even turned on. That's what lots of people have. It's brilliant for its intended purpose. I bet LG sells millions of them. If Apple sells one iPhone for 30 of these LG phones, they make the same money and probably more profit.
So of the 27 million LG phones, how many are of the £10 variety? And do you seriously think anyone would expect Apple to match LGs sales of £10 phones with an equal number of iPhones?
No I do not. I thought I was pretty clear in saying I didn't agree giving examples of smartphones costing much less than the iPhone. Other phones get better subsidies under contract because they're cheaper to the carrier. It's also why they're on cheaper tariffs also. I gave you unsubsidised phone prices deliberately because I just knew some people think the iPhone costs $99 just like other phones do. It's simply naive.
iPhone just aren't that cheap. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Apple don't make cheap laptops either. But, you're in denial if you don't think Apple doesn't make expensive phones.
I gave you prices. They simply aren't priced the same. Even Nokia's flagship N900 with 48GB is around £100 cheaper than a LOCKED iPhone and that's a bit of a weird phone - Nokia don't even try to sell it just as a phone. Nokia's N97 and he new N8 are around the £350 mark. That's £200+ cheaper than an iPhone.
Strawman. We're talking about smartphones.
If everyone is priced the same, it's not expensive, it's the current market price. Apple makes expensive laptops because you can get comparable elsewhere for cheaper.
For phones though ? Not really. 599$ locked here, vs 549$ for a Xperia X10 or 599$ for a BB Bold. All the same price range. Nexus One is also in this price range direct from Google.
Lock/Unlock doesn't change the price much. In Canada we don't get unlocked phones, but in your neck of the woods, it's usually around 15-25$ to unlock a phone.
Again, Vertu makes expensive phones. 8,000$ for a barebones phone just because it says Vertu on it is expensive. 100,000$ for the same phone, but with a 24k gold casing is expensive. Apple makes run of the mill, market priced phones. There's nothing particularly expensive about the iPhone vs other phones of its type and with equivalent or better specs.
Looking at the GSM provider here, an Xperia X10 is 149$ with 3 year contract. That's pretty darn close to a iPhone 3GS 16 GB at 199$ with the same 3 year contract. Sure the subsidy might be a tad better, but then again, that's not my problem if Apple wants to dictate terms and Sony just lets the carrier run with it.
Huh? Same for phones. You can get comparable elsewhere for cheaper.
I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. If you pick just the expensive phones then sure, they're surprise surprise.... Expensive.
I gave you some good examples of cheap smartphones from Nokia. Again, not all smartphones are expensive.
They generally do the same as the expensive ones but they'll be plastic, have a crappy 3.2mp camera and poor battery life - a bit like an iPhone ;-)
Again with the strawman.
And again I gave you plenty of examples that aren't anywhere near as expensive as the iPhone but have comparable or better specs. That's why Nokia have been selling 24 million of them per quarter to Apple's 8.
Nobody in their right mind in Europe signs up to a 3 year contract and if you did you'd expect the phone for free.
I notice you're not saying anything about tariffs. Here in the UK the phone is almost always free no matter what it is. iPhones bucked that trend somewhat as you pay for those. Then you get a tariff which is X per month. In the iPhone's case X is quite high and you usually have to take a long contract - 24 months even.
We're used to cheap phones here.
It's a strawman only because it proves you're wrong.
Vertu makes expensive phones that 99% of the population can't afford. Apple makes run of the mill smartphones in the 500-600$ range, which is quite common. If you can't afford it, it doesn't mean it's expensive, it just means you're poor.
Say what you will, I don't find the iPhone or other comparable smartphones expensive. They're certainly not top bracket as far as phones go.
That's plainly ridiculous. It's the equivalent of saying BMW make run of the mill cars because the Bugatti Veyron exists.
Not if you include Vertus, no. But Vertu don't make a smartphone just as Bugatti don't make family saloons.
In reality, Apple's 'run of the mill smartphones' are 300-400$ more expensive than Nokia's 'run of the mill smartphones' and often much less taking in a full contract tariff.
eg. Nokia X6. Cost of handset - zero. Cost of tariff - £19 a month (100min, unlimited text, unlimited internet). Total = £456.
iPhone 3GS. Cost of handset - £249, tariff £25 (100min, unlimited text, unlimited internet). Total = £849
Those are real figures from Three and O2. I've used a 24month contract to get the iPhone cheaper. I chose the X6 as it's comparable hardware. I could have gone much cheaper with a Nokia 5230.