question fear said:
Exactly- but don't you find it funny how many gay people you know who've slept with the opposite sex? I just find it impossible for myself.
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GayWay - the gay and lesbian discussion (aka. Any Gays here?)
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Exactly- but don't you find it funny how many gay people you know who've slept with the opposite sex? I just find it impossible for myself.
PlaceofDis said:
You're at the Oh Yes Chicago store, right? BTW- The Empty Bottle is great place to find girls into all kinds of things like piercings and such. Also, the Exit club is good too.
leekohler said:You're at the Oh Yes Chicago store, right? BTW- The Empty Bottle is great place to find girls into all kinds of things like piercings and such. Also, the Exit club is good too.
Oh Yes is the place, and i will look into those places
leekohler said:
I remember when we would mention three popular bars, two straight ones and a gay one. The mention of the gay bar was enough of an opening to know it was "safe" to approach.
Even here in the DC area things are different now. My ex and I had many more straight friends than gay friends. And after our break up some of them are trying to "set me up" with other gay guys they know of.
The problem today is these damn "metrosexuals". Gaydar is confused by them. For in the "old" days a "girlfriend" was a cautious term used to protect ones self from embarrassment or worse. Now they could really mean a girlfriend!
Not quite sure where I fit. Coming of age in the 70's; I struggled long and hard with my sexual identity. I dated girls, and fooled around - but never went all the way.
I even went as far as being engaged to a wonderful woman, that I met through a gay lover of mine. (To be honest I think she may have been a closet lesbian.) After my lover at the time and I broke up, she and stayed friends. We grew very close, both emotionally and physically. This was in the 80's when sensitive men were seen as weak - hence undesirable.
She had accepted my past, and as willing to accept the possibility that I "might" want something different "on the side". What mattered at the time was the bond we had with each other. In the end what did us in was not my sexual past or sexual future - but one of money and religion.
For she had gotten her Masters in Education after my proposal (on the LIE during an Earth Day Blockade), and had a great job lined up with Duchess County Schools in NY. I was managing one hour photo labs, and was trying to get a transfer to the Danbury Fair Mall. The beginning of the end was when she told me she felt that a couple should be on equal financial footings. Add to that the rediscovering of her families Jewish roots conflicting with my Catholic roots. For her recently departed father at at the time would not have accepted a Gentile in the family (it was only then that I found out that she hid the fact of my Catholic upbringing - my family name can be confused with being Jewish).
Sorry for the long ramble. I guess the point is that some of us are hard to peg. I identify myself as Gay, but have been on the other side so to speak. If I had married her, I do believe that I would have been faithful. For faithfulness is a core belief of mine. For me I think the emotional bond is greater than the physical bond.
leekohler said:BTW- The Empty Bottle is great place to find girls into all kinds of things like piercings and such. Also, the Exit club is good too.
Note to self: visit The Empty Bottle and the Exit Club if I ever go to Chicago.
PlaceofDis said:Oh Yes is the place, and i will look into those places
Wow- I would have thought you would have heard of both. Both are near Wicker Park, is that easy for you to get to? You should especialy get yourself to Exit, you'll love it.
leekohler said:
im actually a bit northwest of Logan Square.... and just turning 21 last year while away at school, and moving back to Chicago this summer i haven't had much chance to explore just yet. Wicker Park is about 15mins away, my favorite coffeehouse, Filter, is there..... ill probably be there tomorrow evening working on grad apps, joy.
PlaceofDis said:and remember to get in touch with myself and leekohler
See how fast it works?
Exit is on North Ave. close to Elston. I think it's just west of the river. I think you'll dig it. Also, ever been to Neo? It's a little more on the goth side, but still cool.leekohler said:See how fast it works?
can't say that i have, my social life this summer has been.... shall we say: non-exisitant. due to the gf, working 60+ hours a week, and just general craziness. now that the girl is gone, and work is dropping down to 40 some hours a week i get to have a life. ill be sure to check all these places out. just need to find the old friends and see if they still are friends. if not its off to find new ones too....
Chip NoVaMac said:
Coming from my own personal experience, that's terribly impressive. I out and out refrained from approaching any girls (and declined all approaches) before I came out, no matter how much I wished to "fit in", simply because I knew I would have no physical desire for any woman. I could certainly care about a woman, and even love her, but absent a physical expression of that love, the relationship would be hollow. Likewise, a physical relationship without the emotional attachment is just as hollow. I've been around (More than I care to admit) but never is the sex better or as meaningful than with someone for whom I care. I suppose I mean to say is neither physical nor emotional relationships, no matter one's sexuality, are mutually exclusive. They're equally necessary and equally important.
PlaceofDis said:
Well, definitely do that. One of these places should suit you quite well. Here ya go!:
http://www.exitchicago.com/
http://www.neo-chicago.com/
http://www.emptybottle.com/home.php
Chip NoVaMac said:
Chip- that's interesting. I personally could never sleep with a woman. But at the same time, if I could have I would have married one and pleased everyone (including my parents). So what was it that made you NOT do that? I guess coming from my perspective, it seems kind of strange.
PlaceofDis said:awesome, you have been much help, i owe you
Anything to help out a fellow misfit.
You don't owe me anything, just have fun and meet yourself a nice, kinky girl. 
PlaceofDis said:
I think I know the feelings. My ex of 13+ years and I split this past April (chronicled in other threads here _ thanks to all MR members that had been so supportive during that time!).
Readers Digest version - then I had to deal with their need to be hospitalized, and finding a new home for our dog (Chewey), prepping and selling of my TH to pay off their bills, moving 13 years and three bedrooms of my stuff in to a one bedroom apartment (from 1400 sq ft to 800 sq ft); while trying to work 40 hours a week and deal with my sisters home being broken into while she was in the shower - and to find out that the 13 years with my ex was all a dream [better yet - lies] (like Bob Newhart, when he awoke from a nightmare) - and there is so much more in threads posted here (again thanks to all for the love and support).
The first breath of fresh air was in late July when I took a birthday trip to SF (get your minds out of the gutters, guys - though there is a wonderful story of a chance meeting and the Nob Hill Theater dancers
). I spent 5 days there doing what made me happy, taking pictures - over 1000 shots (still trying to sort through them all). I am just now being able to even think of going out meeting others. For me "trust" is now a major issue. I know that (through some therapy so far), that the situation I went through is not the norm - being lied to from the get go, and for 13 years (hey, he even had his mom fooled for 13 years too).
Sorry if I sound bitter, but I think I have every right to feel that way at this point. What bothers me most is this was not the way I was brought up to be. At 47 yo, I am at that "ugly" stage of life - too old to chase the young ones, the ones my age are "settled", and the older ones are getting the younger ones.
ColoJohnBoy said:
But you and I come from a different time I think. I grew up in a period that you fit in, or you were so out - you were better off dead (and that brings to mind some suicides of classmates).
For me the physical desire for woman was there - maybe just the male urge to get off. But the emotional bond was there too. Keep in mind I may have been drawn to women that held fundamental beliefs that I did at the time, that full out sex was saved for marriage. (Sort along the lines of as long you kept your socks on it was OK
.) I just know what my heart felt in those years for those that I loved. It is refreshing to hear from someone that speaks of "hollowness" of emotions, encounters and the such. To be blunt, masturbation is there for pure sexual gratification.
This went as far as my ex (who had been married to a woman - divorced of course) on a trip to Vegas and the other counties, on a road trip we passed through Pahrump, NV and a brothel at a gas stop. For some perverse logic he wanted me to "be with a woman". We had a drink or two with the "ladies", but there was no connection - no interest. It may sound strange, but there have been women that I felt something towards, even as a "Gay" male - that I would have loved the opportunity with. Even if long-term it lead to nothing.
leekohler said:
There was only one woman that I could ever see myself with at the time (though there are two other women that I truly loved emotionally and maybe physically - but that was in HS). And as I said money and religion got in the way. I loved retail, and realized that she would earn more long term - and we talked of my being the "house husband". But that did not fit into her views of what the male was to be in a marriage.
The major component was the religious differences in the end. She hid the fact that I was Catholic (Christian) and her father was a staunch Jew. She felt much guilt after his death, that she knew in her heart that her father would have never fully accepted me into the family.
I was not trying to "pass". She and I truly realized we each had the qualities that we sought for a long term "mate". We each knew of each others past, and was willing to accept that. She more than I - for she was willing for me to seek "pleasure" on the "outside". To this day I wish I had a son or daughter (my "Gay" ex and I had the chance with a tenant of one of my relatives).
Your comment of "I've been around (More than I care to admit) but never is the sex better or as meaningful than with someone for whom I care." rings so true for me now. The problem I face is that I thought I had this for the last 13 years.
Sorry if I take this down a very different road, but most (if not all) of what I believed and was told over the last 13 years was a lie. None of his childhood. Nothing of the time till I met him. He fabricated stories about his Dad's jobs. All of the jobs (more so the theater jobs) he held. He painted a wonderful tapestry of all the minor and major theatric productions he had been - that I had been in attendance of. All painting this "wonderful" story of two people who were meant to be together.
I feel like such the fool now. After the house of cards came falling down, I found out through his mother that his father was never more than low level grunt in "counting"; not a "senior level accountant". That his "acting" career never went past the Dinner Theater circuit in the DC area.
I realize now that he was able to use me from the get go. The hard part is trying to get past ALL the lies and to trust again. For I have said to friends, that the hand of God could come knocking at my door with the perfect lover - and I would slam the door shut at this point.
Not that the desire is not there. For I truly want to open my heart to someone else. But I feel that I have paid such a heavy price for what I thought was true love over the past 13 years (even after my first glimpse of infidelity back during the 9-11 period).
Guitarius said:
He really doesn't have that problem since he is happily "married". For the rest of us (or at least me now), some of us defy "definition".
Hrmmm...I got pruned out of the list, anyways here is an updated version:
1. leekohler - one frightening, monstrous homo. Don't drop the soap.
2. Guitarius - Wouldn't mind having a sugar daddy to serve mimosas to and wear linen by the pool.
3. question fear-former BDOC (big dyke on campus-back in the day...)
4. vniow - MR's favourite gender****ing trans dyke
5. Chip NovaMac - A Big Ol' Bear with a heart the size of Texas (and it appears the brain the size of RI when it comes to cheating/lying spouses ) - who could get used to wearing linen
6. neildmitchell - College boy. ?So, you got something you want to teach me?
7. scem0 - newbie who is thinking about dropping the soap after reading #1 .
8. Paragonvictim - the dyke who couldn't commit.
9. looloopoopie - wouldn't mind being dom'ed... wait, did i just say that?
10. iGary - People are dumbfounded when he tells them he is gay.
11. gekko513 - neither sugar daddy, nor bitch boy
12. maddie - Current BDOC & LGBT Society Comms Officer
13. paleck - is entirely too trusting and has given up on dating for now because of it
I wonder if I should take that pruning personally?
1. leekohler - one frightening, monstrous homo. Don't drop the soap.
2. Guitarius - Wouldn't mind having a sugar daddy to serve mimosas to and wear linen by the pool.
3. question fear-former BDOC (big dyke on campus-back in the day...)
4. vniow - MR's favourite gender****ing trans dyke
5. Chip NovaMac - A Big Ol' Bear with a heart the size of Texas (and it appears the brain the size of RI when it comes to cheating/lying spouses ) - who could get used to wearing linen
6. neildmitchell - College boy. ?So, you got something you want to teach me?
7. scem0 - newbie who is thinking about dropping the soap after reading #1 .
8. Paragonvictim - the dyke who couldn't commit.
9. looloopoopie - wouldn't mind being dom'ed... wait, did i just say that?
10. iGary - People are dumbfounded when he tells them he is gay.
11. gekko513 - neither sugar daddy, nor bitch boy
12. maddie - Current BDOC & LGBT Society Comms Officer
13. paleck - is entirely too trusting and has given up on dating for now because of it
I wonder if I should take that pruning personally?
paleck said:Hrmmm...I got pruned out of the list, anyways here is an updated version:
1. leekohler - one frightening, monstrous homo. Don't drop the soap.
2. Guitarius - Wouldn't mind having a sugar daddy to serve mimosas to and wear linen by the pool.
3. question fear-former BDOC (big dyke on campus-back in the day...)
4. vniow - MR's favourite gender****ing trans dyke
5. Chip NovaMac - A Big Ol' Bear with a heart the size of Texas (and it appears the brain the size of RI when it comes to cheating/lying spouses ) - who could get used to wearing linen
6. neildmitchell - College boy. ?So, you got something you want to teach me?
7. scem0 - newbie who is thinking about dropping the soap after reading #1 .
8. Paragonvictim - the dyke who couldn't commit.
9. looloopoopie - wouldn't mind being dom'ed... wait, did i just say that?
10. iGary - People are dumbfounded when he tells them he is gay.
11. gekko513 - neither sugar daddy, nor bitch boy
12. maddie - Current BDOC & LGBT Society Comms Officer
13. paleck - is entirely too trusting and has given up on dating for now because of it
I wonder if I should take that pruning personally?
hmm very interesting, I wonder how they will take it
paleck said:I wonder if I should take that pruning personally?
Nah- I'm sure it was an honest mistake.
I absolutely MUST play this game...
1. leekohler - one frightening, monstrous homo. Don't drop the soap.
2. Guitarius - Wouldn't mind having a sugar daddy to serve mimosas to and wear linen by the pool.
3. question fear-former BDOC (big dyke on campus-back in the day...)
4. vniow - MR's favourite gender****ing trans dyke
5. Chip NovaMac - A Big Ol' Bear with a heart the size of Texas (and it appears the brain the size of RI when it comes to cheating/lying spouses ) - who could get used to wearing linen
6. neildmitchell - College boy. ?So, you got something you want to teach me?
7. scem0 - newbie who is thinking about dropping the soap after reading #1 .
8. Paragonvictim - the dyke who couldn't commit.
9. looloopoopie - wouldn't mind being dom'ed... wait, did i just say that?
10. iGary - People are dumbfounded when he tells them he is gay.
11. gekko513 - neither sugar daddy, nor bitch boy
12. maddie - Current BDOC & LGBT Society Comms Officer
13. paleck - is entirely too trusting and has given up on dating for now because of it
14. ColoJohnBoy - Often called Denver's gay counterpart to Samantha of 'Sex and the City'
1. leekohler - one frightening, monstrous homo. Don't drop the soap.
2. Guitarius - Wouldn't mind having a sugar daddy to serve mimosas to and wear linen by the pool.
3. question fear-former BDOC (big dyke on campus-back in the day...)
4. vniow - MR's favourite gender****ing trans dyke
5. Chip NovaMac - A Big Ol' Bear with a heart the size of Texas (and it appears the brain the size of RI when it comes to cheating/lying spouses ) - who could get used to wearing linen
6. neildmitchell - College boy. ?So, you got something you want to teach me?
7. scem0 - newbie who is thinking about dropping the soap after reading #1 .
8. Paragonvictim - the dyke who couldn't commit.
9. looloopoopie - wouldn't mind being dom'ed... wait, did i just say that?
10. iGary - People are dumbfounded when he tells them he is gay.
11. gekko513 - neither sugar daddy, nor bitch boy
12. maddie - Current BDOC & LGBT Society Comms Officer
13. paleck - is entirely too trusting and has given up on dating for now because of it
14. ColoJohnBoy - Often called Denver's gay counterpart to Samantha of 'Sex and the City'
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