Until we get a tear down, there is no definitive proof. Feeling more clicky can mean many things, and is subjective. Only though objective evidence can this be validated.
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Good news for 2017 Macbook Pro Keyboard
- Thread starter dan9700
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I agree - I spent some time with new ones yesterday and I think this is placebo effect in play here.
Not only did the ones I used not feel different to me vs the 2016's I had, they actually felt very inconsistent just amongst 2017 units side by side (several 15" models in a line).
(...not normal variation...different like "what's wrong with this particular one?")
I honestly just think this is a flop of a keyboard design from the ground up.
It's really hard to see these as being reliable long term like the previous designs always have been.
Man - I really wish they'd put some scissors in there from the Magic Keyboards..
[doublepost=1497368141][/doublepost]...and then we have reports like these starting..
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-clicking-sound.2022399/page-39#post-24685964
When will this nightmare end? If the keyboard has faults in design, why did Apple not do anything to correct this error? Did they just wish that they would simply vanish away?
I think it's a two fold problem..
1. Apple doesn't like to admit wrong doing
2. Perhaps more relevant, it's likely expensive to change the design.
I have a feeling, sadly, that they'll ride this out and in maybe Fall of 2018 (or there about) we'll get another update that will have something changed about the keyboard and they can drag out the Keynote slide about "how the amazing keyboard is now even more amazing!" (thus obfuscating all these real issues)
Beyond the reliability issues, I'm just frustrated because anything thinner/less travel than the Magic Keyboard has basically become a bridge too far for me. I just find it really disappointing as there was a time that Apple really was proud of having great laptop keyboards. I remember way back when one of their emphasis points was how all the models ensured to have full size keyboards due to the importance of a great typing experience.
It just feels like they don't really care about this part anymore.
I know many of us bitch, moan and joke about "thinner everything" all the time, but there really is merit in the keyboard world to the concept of "too thin". We've reached it.
I would honestly rather type on the Smart Keyboard cover for a day of work vs the 2016/2017 KB's.
Silliest thread ever. We're comparing a "first impression" of a product that was released 2 days ago with a product that was released 6 months ago. Unless you're taking a brand new one of each out of the box and testing them side by side, any "feeling" of difference is anecdotal at best.
It's like buying a car in 2016, then the 2017 model comes out, and you getting in and driving it and feeling like it's got tighter suspension, better handling, etc. You're comparing a car that's been used for 6-12 months with a car that's off the showroom floor. Parts wear down, there's break in periods, and for someone to try and say with any definition that they know a model has been improved is laughable.
It's like buying a car in 2016, then the 2017 model comes out, and you getting in and driving it and feeling like it's got tighter suspension, better handling, etc. You're comparing a car that's been used for 6-12 months with a car that's off the showroom floor. Parts wear down, there's break in periods, and for someone to try and say with any definition that they know a model has been improved is laughable.
This is a great point you've made..
You're made a great argument that the people finding differences between 2016 and 2017 models will likely find very little difference once the 2017 KB's wear in a bit.
My personal opinion is that they changed very very little, if at all. I guess time will tell.
Apple has been known to use different versions of keyboards for the same Macbook form factor .
For example, if you have a Retina Macbook Pro from 2012-2015, there are two keyboard versions, AC06, and AC07, each manufactured by a different company. The internal key mechanisms are different in shape, size, and thus would feel slightly different to sensitive users.
Reference:
https://www.replacementlaptopkeys.com/apple-macbook-pro-laptop-key-replacement-retina-display/
Of course, like someone in the thread mentioned, the difference could very well be just placebo and/or wear and tear on the 2016 model.
For example, if you have a Retina Macbook Pro from 2012-2015, there are two keyboard versions, AC06, and AC07, each manufactured by a different company. The internal key mechanisms are different in shape, size, and thus would feel slightly different to sensitive users.
Reference:
https://www.replacementlaptopkeys.com/apple-macbook-pro-laptop-key-replacement-retina-display/
Of course, like someone in the thread mentioned, the difference could very well be just placebo and/or wear and tear on the 2016 model.
Today I tried my 1-month old 15" MacBook Pro 2016 next to a 2017 in-store at an APR, day and night difference. They're less 'clicky', make less sound and seem to have a bit more travel. In general they feel better typing on. Definitely Apple has tweaked the key/mechanism a bit.
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To be fair, there was much whining and hand-wringing and tooth-gnashing when Apple went to the "chiclet" style keyboard as well, a design that has now become standard across the industry (even migrating to desktops) and is considered a good mainstream keyboard design. Then, there were similar complaints about how the lack of key travel was a travesty and how they wouldn't ever be as durable as a traditional keyboard, etc. I can't speak to the new ones since I haven't used them yet but it's possible the same will happen there over time (assuming they can fix the actual malfunctioning parts, which are unacceptable).
Just got my 13 inch non-TB machine today...and sure enough after my computer got warm I had three different keys sticking. Here's a video showing a couple of them. After it cooled down they didn't stick anymore. Not sure I want to take it in and get it replaced...having no confidence the next machine I'll get won't have the same issue...but then again I don't want it to get worse over time. Anyone experience the 2016 sticking and stick with it? Did it get worse or stay the same?
It seems evidence is growing that there were in fact no changes to the keyboard.
I maxed out my CPU hard enough to drain 50% CPU in 1:45 and my keys didn't get sticky. This was on a 15" model.
"Pro" tip, LOL - Don't leave continuous integration enabled in Xcode if you're on battery power. It's a deadly killer.
I assume you have the 2017 MBP? I have a 2016 15" and have never had sticky keys either. It seems that only some 2016 MBP's have this fault, or at least have exhibited it. Seeing as some 2017 models have the issue as well, this says to me that nothing has changed, some 2017's will have issues, some won't.
I also used the 2017 in store and could notice the difference, and it's been noted by other users as well. I think it should be much more reliable and they felt more consistent to me.
[doublepost=1497493718][/doublepost]
[doublepost=1497493718][/doublepost]
Personally I think many of the big reviewers wouldn't mention something like this unless it was a night and day difference, which it isn't. They probably didn't notice it. Unless you're someone who fixated on the feeling of the keyboard, in a love or hate way, I think it could be unnoticeable. I have noticed the difference from trying the 2017 model in store, feels more consistent and like a refined version of the 2nd gen. Maybe others can compare the two and see if they notice a difference
damn getting my custom 2017 MBP 13" non TB tomorrow. All this has me worried. I didn't know the 2016's had so many keyboard problems. If mine has this problem I am going in guns blazing demanding a refund and getting a Dell XPS. I love OSX but the keyboard would be the last straw in an already compromised system
Apple likely made the supposed changes to improve durability so hopefully it's better for you.
Most 2016 MBPs don't have any issues, and the 2017 is supposedly even better. Chances are you won't have any problems. Forums are always a good place to build up one's paranoia.
[doublepost=1497515011][/doublepost]By the way, can someone explain what 'sticky keys' exactly means? Is this the same issue as high-pitched keys or does the key literally stick and won't raise?
I can only really speak to what was going on with mine, I wouldn't call it "high pitched" more of a snap or click, which I'm pretty sure is happening b/c it's catching on something...
Like I said, it's not happening when it's cool, but from others I've seen it's an issue that happens when the machine heats up. Considering I had three keys happen on the first day I received mine, I'm not very confident they made any updates to it.
I didn't test all the keys, but this is the computer I use for work, so I'll test out all of them when it gets warm today. Even though I don't want to deal with going in and getting it looked at, I guess I'll schedule a time to go in and show them the video to see if I can get a replacement.
I could be wrong but I thought it was when you depressed a key, say the A key, it would register multiple times, i.e., you see multiple As showing up when you only wanted one.
Yeah this is kind of like the WebMD for laptops, you can easily make yourself believe your computer will explode or you have cancer.
With this being said it still is alarming how many complaints and even online publications took note of the keyboarding not working in 2016. I guess I am not as worried about short term problems but this going array 2-5 years from now when the warranty is gone and costing me hundreds of dollars to fix since Macbooks are some of the hardest to fix.
CI is a battery killer. Do you know if there is a parameter to define how often they check for changes?
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They could have updated it, but it did not fix the problem. Remember the Samsung Note 7, they changed out all the phones with new production to fix the battery only to find out the issue was inherent in the machinery in the sub contractor's plant.
Yet another reason to be wary of version 1 (or maybe 2 of a new design).
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Wrong. I was at Best Buy yesterday, and they had a 2017 MBP on display. Several of them actually. So I spent about 20 minutes typing on each of them. First, let me say, all three keyboards felt the same. Firm and responsive. An equal typing experience across the board. But more importantly, the typing experience was definitely an improvement over the 2016 version. My wife owns a 2016 13" nTB Pro, and the typing experience for her is clackety and loud and bone jarring (meaning, her fingers get sore after a while). But with the 2017 keyboard at BB, things seemed more in place and much firmer, and each key needed a bit more effort to press. And this was a display model!
My guess is, Apple again made some subtle enhancements to the keyboard but decided not to boast about it to the public. What would they say anyway, that the keyboard has been improved for the third time in just eight months? This time around, I think they just fixed what was broken, or what the buying public perceived was broken, and then kept on moving forward. Eventually, folks will forget about the 2016 issues and move on to something else. At least, that's what Apple hopes. Anyway, I definitely believe the 2017 keyboard is better than the 2016 keyboard. My ten cents worth.
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You're not the first to conclude there were improvements. Others say otherwise though after trying the new ones. However, are you trying to tell me Apple improved the 2017 keyboard, but then failed to fix the issue some people have of sticky and loud snappy keys?
I think it remains plausible that this entire concept with the keyboards is just too thin for its own good.
Perhaps Apple went with "shims by default" on these new ones, but the super thin and tight tolerance nature of the entire concept might always be susceptible to sticking/loud keys/other issues as reported.
I really hope they re-visit this entire concept for MBP's in the 2018+ models.
Magic Keyboard in the laptops please!
Perhaps Apple went with "shims by default" on these new ones, but the super thin and tight tolerance nature of the entire concept might always be susceptible to sticking/loud keys/other issues as reported.
I really hope they re-visit this entire concept for MBP's in the 2018+ models.
Magic Keyboard in the laptops please!