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You're not the first to conclude there were improvements. Others say otherwise though after trying the new ones. However, are you trying to tell me Apple improved the 2017 keyboard, but then failed to fix the issue some people have of sticky and loud snappy keys?
They definitely did something good with the keyboard. I did a 2016/2017 same config side by side comparison. The 2016 keyboard is noisier. Also the feedback on 2016 is hard (direct stop), on the 2017 the last bit of travel feels a bit softer, less 'clacky'.

I can say I'm very very sensitive to small details like keyboard travel, sound and feedback. I think the ones who don't notice the difference between the 2016 and 2017 are not sensitive enough to this details. It has definitely improved.
 
They definitely did something good with the keyboard. I did a 2016/2017 same config side by side comparison. The 2016 keyboard is noisier. Also the feedback on 2016 is hard (direct stop), on the 2017 the last bit of travel feels a bit softer, less 'clacky'.

I can say I'm very very sensitive to small details like keyboard travel, sound and feedback. I think the ones who don't notice the difference between the 2016 and 2017 are not sensitive enough to this details. It has definitely improved.

And the fact that it still seems to have quality issues for some?
 
And the fact that it still seems to have quality issues for some?
Of course, some still have quality issues. Even with high quality products they will rarely occur. I returned 4 MacBook Pro 2016's to get a pretty decent one. With my in-store comparison the first 2017 I touched is perfect, and also a classmate's 2017 MacBook Pro is perfect. Usually people only tend to share their problems here, not when they haven't got any troubles.
 
Of course, some still have quality issues. Even with high quality products they will rarely occur. I returned 4 MacBook Pro 2016's to get a pretty decent one. With my in-store comparison the first 2017 I touched is perfect, and also a classmate's 2017 MacBook Pro is perfect. Usually people only tend to share their problems here, not when they haven't got any troubles.

Right, but the point I'm getting at isn't the frequency though, rather that the issues are exactly the same between '16 and '17 models. This would suggest that, at the least, Apple didn't do a great job fixing any underlying problem.
 
"Even with high quality products they will rarely occur." "I returned 4 MacBook Pro 2016's to get a pretty decent one."

I'm having a difficult time reconciling these two statements.

Of course, some still have quality issues. Even with high quality products they will rarely occur. I returned 4 MacBook Pro 2016's to get a pretty decent one. With my in-store comparison the first 2017 I touched is perfect, and also a classmate's 2017 MacBook Pro is perfect. Usually people only tend to share their problems here, not when they haven't got any troubles.
 
"Even with high quality products they will rarely occur." "I returned 4 MacBook Pro 2016's to get a pretty decent one."

I'm having a difficult time reconciling these two statements.
I did have a lot of troubles with the 2016 MacBook Pro. So did many others. I don't see it as a high quality product. However, with the 2017 2 out of 2 were perfect, no troubles. I think the keys mechanisms/caps on the 2017 are higher quality because they are definitely different. Not a lot, but tweaked a bit.
 
Wrong. I was at Best Buy yesterday, and they had a 2017 MBP on display. Several of them actually. So I spent about 20 minutes typing on each of them. First, let me say, all three keyboards felt the same. Firm and responsive. An equal typing experience across the board. But more importantly, the typing experience was definitely an improvement over the 2016 version. My wife owns a 2016 13" nTB Pro, and the typing experience for her is clackety and loud and bone jarring (meaning, her fingers get sore after a while). But with the 2017 keyboard at BB, things seemed more in place and much firmer, and each key needed a bit more effort to press. And this was a display model!

My guess is, Apple again made some subtle enhancements to the keyboard but decided not to boast about it to the public. What would they say anyway, that the keyboard has been improved for the third time in just eight months? This time around, I think they just fixed what was broken, or what the buying public perceived was broken, and then kept on moving forward. Eventually, folks will forget about the 2016 issues and move on to something else. At least, that's what Apple hopes. Anyway, I definitely believe the 2017 keyboard is better than the 2016 keyboard. My ten cents worth.
Thank you, another person that has noticed! It seems like the people who say there is no change have not tried it, don't trust others who say it's different, and want proof of the mechanism changes and how it's changed. They should try it in store, especially if you've had a period of experience with the 2016 keyboard that isn't just in store a few weeks/months ago.
A good way to describe it is that it felt more like the magic keyboard and less clackety as you say so i can't imagine it making the high pitched sound some keys used to make (that's not to say it won't happen). I don't know about noise as I tried it in store but they do feel more consistent.
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Of course, some still have quality issues. Even with high quality products they will rarely occur. I returned 4 MacBook Pro 2016's to get a pretty decent one. With my in-store comparison the first 2017 I touched is perfect, and also a classmate's 2017 MacBook Pro is perfect. Usually people only tend to share their problems here, not when they haven't got any troubles.
I agree, I tested many keys in store with multiple Macbook Pros an to my surprise (at the time) they felt a lot more consistent, whereas the 2016 feeling depends on the angle and force applied, and some just have a different feeling no matter how you press them
 
I was in Japan last month and felt the 2016 Macbook Pro 13" w/ TB on display. The keyboard definitely felt more firm and clicky than mine. It could be just variations between individual Macbook Pros or that quality control has made more keyboards feel like what they are supposed to feel like.
 
Just got my 15" 2017 MBP and there is definitely a difference compared to the 2016 machines i tried in the stores, Apple as well as Best Buy. Funny the Best buy had 4 MBPs and they all said 2017 so i tried the 3 13" and indeed they felt better. Then i tried the 15" and not at all that good and the enter key was a bit stuck and didn't travel well. So i checked apple menu and sure enough it was a 2016 machine and not 2017 as per the label.
My 2017 so far, granted no heat test yet but regardless, it feels different/better than the 2016 machines I have tried during the last 2 months while i was debating getting one or not.
 
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Implications of this for the 2017 12" MacBook?!

Should I expect it to be improved over the 2016 model?
 
Implications of this for the 2017 12" MacBook?!

Should I expect it to be improved over the 2016 model?

Two different issues. Whether the 2017 MBP keyboard is fixed is up in the air but there is no question the 2017 MB keyboard is improved over 2016 because it's 1st vs. 2nd gen butterfly keyboard
 
I finally got around to trying the new keyboard. While I prefer the old (2010/2012) keyboards, I don't think it would be difficult for me to get used to the shorter travel.
The touch-only escape key would be difficult to get used to - but I found that I don't have to. There's a system preferences option in Sierra that allows you to remap the caps lock key to escape.
Having discovered that, I upgraded to Sierra and set the option on my old computer, even though it has a real escape key, since I might as well turn a useless nuisance key into a useful key.
 
More observations from a hyper-sensitive user here...

I picked up my 2017 Pro on Friday and mentioned (I think in another thread) that I do believe the keyboard has been revised. After testing it and many display models in two stores I agree the 2017 is firmer, more stable, and less noisy than the 2016.

However...

I noticed the return key on mine is a little less springy than the rest of the keys. Again, incredibly minor - I'm sure most people would never notice. But it feels less clicky then the rest.

Returning in to two Apple Stores in recent days, the return keys are similarly unsatisfactory on nearly all the display models.

Note, I'm from the UK and here we have the ISO-style vertical return key, and not the US horizontal return key.

I wonder if, due to the unusual shape of the key, that the revision - perhaps a factory-fitted shim, though we don't know what it is - could not be applied to the return key. It is like all the other keys are improved, but the return key still feels like the 2016 revision.

Has anyone else noticed this on their vertical return key-equipped 2017 Pro?
 
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Never owned a 2016 MBP, however I did experience keyboard issues just a couple years ago when purchasing the 2015 12" MacBook. It's a familiar story.

I bought one, came home and immediately noticed that 2 of the keys just weren't right. I noticed literally within the first 5 minutes of using the machine. I returned it, and swapped for an identical model. This new one had fewer issues, but still it was noticeable that one of the keys was not to spec. I lost confidence in the QA of that particular model and decided I could wait. I got the updated 2016 rMB last year on eBay, and it didn't have any issues whatsoever. Truly don't know whether this was because of something changed between the 2015 model and the 2016 or if it was just luck of the draw.

That being said, I do have a new 2017 MacBook Pro and I have not noticed a single issue thus far. The first thing that I did when I received it (naturally) was test every single key several times, and to date I haven't experienced any of the known issues on the forum (sticking from heat, clicking, loud sounds, etc). I really like the keyboard, significantly more than the 2016 rMB keyboard.

I'll report back here if I do happen to have any issues in the future. I am very OCD about everything on my laptop so I will definitely notice if something comes up :)
 
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I have had my 2017 MBP 13" for 5 days and the left side on some keys like the "Q" is noticeably louder (clicky) than the right side when the computer is cool or hot.

not a deal breaker unless the keys start to actually fail.

dare I say I am actually starting to like the feel of the keyboard. The keys are closer together so I initially was making more mistakes, but since the keys have so little travel they only need a slight tap rather than press.

I am still nervous about the long term reliability of the keyboard
 
More observations from a hyper-sensitive user here...

I picked up my 2017 Pro on Friday and mentioned (I think in another thread) that I do believe the keyboard has been revised. After testing it and many display models in two stores I agree the 2017 is firmer, more stable, and less noisy than the 2016.

However...

I noticed the return key on mine is a little less springy than the rest of the keys. Again, incredibly minor - I'm sure most people would never notice. But it feels less clicky then the rest.

Returning in to two Apple Stores in recent days, the return keys are similarly unsatisfactory on nearly all the display models.

Note, I'm from the UK and here we have the ISO-style vertical return key, and not the US horizontal return key.

I wonder if, due to the unusual shape of the key, that the revision - perhaps a factory-fitted shim, though we don't know what it is - could not be applied to the return key. It is like all the other keys are improved, but the return key still feels like the 2016 revision.

Has anyone else noticed this on their vertical return key-equipped 2017 Pro?



Yes, i have the exact same return key (L shaped enter key) feels mushy, and less clicky. especially on the left side of the key.

i did try other models at the store it's 50/50, some feels the same as mine, others just click very well and you can feel that your clicking on them.

Pretty sure ill return it and re order one online again.
 
I've been using two maxed-out rMBP 15" 2016 for a long time and just today received my new maxed-out 2017 model 15". There is definitely a difference. I would say It almost feels like there is even less travel. In general the keys just feel more solid, like you have to press just a little harder to get similar feedback. They do seem sturdier to me. So far so good! I was one of the skeptical people in this thread and I'm still not entirely sure what they changed.. I really hope someone can 'scientifically' explain why they feel different on the 2017 model.
 
More observations from a hyper-sensitive user here...

I picked up my 2017 Pro on Friday and mentioned (I think in another thread) that I do believe the keyboard has been revised. After testing it and many display models in two stores I agree the 2017 is firmer, more stable, and less noisy than the 2016.

However...

I noticed the return key on mine is a little less springy than the rest of the keys. Again, incredibly minor - I'm sure most people would never notice. But it feels less clicky then the rest.

Returning in to two Apple Stores in recent days, the return keys are similarly unsatisfactory on nearly all the display models.

Note, I'm from the UK and here we have the ISO-style vertical return key, and not the US horizontal return key.

I wonder if, due to the unusual shape of the key, that the revision - perhaps a factory-fitted shim, though we don't know what it is - could not be applied to the return key. It is like all the other keys are improved, but the return key still feels like the 2016 revision.

Has anyone else noticed this on their vertical return key-equipped 2017 Pro?



Thanks for the 2017 keyboard observations, you asked for comments so if I could chip in.


I have had the 2017 nTB, UK spec, since the Wednesday after WWDC after giving the 2016 model a miss due to the clicky-clacky keyboard which I tried several times, on several different machines though just could not type quietly or comfortably on. This is from being an experienced near silent typist on the 2015 rMB. The 2016 MBP just jarred and actually caused me joint pain in my fingers after a short while typing.


Had a feeling Apple would address the keyboard issue and thought I'd get an order in as soon as WWDC concluded, as it could always be returned if no improvement. The 2017 keyboard is brilliant, my absolute favourite keyboard to type on, much more so than the 2015 rMB and even the second gen magic keyboard, which is still great. But the 2017 MBP is even better, so precise and a real pleasure to type on for extended periods.


However, exactly as you have described, the vertical return key is soft/mushy/wobbly/slightly slanted/yucky. All the other keys are excellent without exception, a totally consistent feel on each key, the noise the keys make if pressed harder is uniform too, a nice dull sound, unlike the return key which is high pitched and unpleasant. I just press it gently and get on with my work.


Thanks for the mention of all the UK spec display models you tried being the same, saves me the consideration of returning this one as am delighted with it all, from fit & finish, to screen quality and brightness through to the whole user experience. Wouldn't want to make a return risking other defects and little chance of a better return key action.


Pity about the return key, but it works and if it stops working then off to see the geniuses I will go. But in reality it doesn't feel like it will cease working, it simply just isn't as well engineered in feel or sound as all the other keys.


For anyone considering it, I have the 128gb version and find it a perfect business machine. Though not sure how suited to personal use it would be as on arrival it had under 100gb of storage available and when one considers leaving adequate free space not to slow the drive down, there wouldn't be much space for anyone who was not to a large degree in the 'cloud'. But for biz, perfect! And a higher turbo-boost than the £500 more expensive TB base model. Battery life is excellent and I for one am glad it doesn't have terraced batteries as the ones in the 2015 rMB can be less than impressive.
 
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The 2016 MBP just jarred and actually caused me joint pain in my fingers after a short while typing.

The 2017 keyboard is brilliant, my absolute favourite keyboard to type on

I can believe that the new keyboard is maybe different, but that the 2016 keyboard gives you joint pains and 2017 doesn't - that's just hard to take seriously.

I love it how things start to roll here on Macrumors - one person mentions they have battery issues, 100 posts follow, and then there are people claiming theirs lasts 10 minutes. Someone mentions bad screen uniformity, then we have 100 replies, and then people claim they see rainbows on screens. Same with this keyboard - if the 2017 model didn't come out, I think we would be reading how the 2016 keyboard gives you cancer by now. And then they tweak something (still unconfirmed, but ok, they probably did) and we have a total reversal. It's suddenly the best keyboard ever?

I'm not saying Apple didn't tweak something, I guess they did. But half of these things are in your heads, people. Come on - you get joint pains from the previous one after a couple of minutes but this new one is the best keyboard you tried?
 
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I can believe that the new keyboard is maybe different, but that the 2016 keyboard gives you joint pains and 2017 doesn't - that's just hard to take seriously.

I love it how things start to roll here on Macrumors - one person mentions they have battery issues, 100 posts follow, and then there are people claiming theirs lasts 10 minutes. Someone mentions bad screen uniformity, then we have 100 replies, and then people claim they see rainbows on screens. Same with this keyboard - if the 2017 model didn't come out, I think we would be reading how the 2016 keyboard gives you cancer by now. And then they tweak something (still unconfirmed, but ok, they probably did) and we have a total reversal. It's suddenly the best keyboard ever?

I'm not saying Apple didn't tweak something, I guess they did. But half of these things are in your heads, people. Come on - you get joint pains from the previous one after a couple of minutes but this new one is the best keyboard you tried?



My apologies, I should of also mentioned I have severe arthritis in my finger joints which the 2016 set off and the 2017 does not. That is totally specific to me. Thank you for presenting the opportunity to clarify this.

I would not expect anyone in perfect/good health to have the same issue. The 2017 feels more 'damped', slightly harder to press, but more cushioned in its action? These differences are not large by any means, in fact they may be very tiny, but they make a big difference to me.
 
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My apologies, I should of also mentioned I have severe arthritis in my finger joints which the 2016 set off and the 2017 does not. That is totally specific to me. Thank you for presenting the opportunity to clarify this.

I would not expect anyone in perfect/good health to have the same issue. The 2017 feels more 'damped', slightly harder to press, but more cushioned in its action? These differences are not large by any means, in fact they may be very tiny, but they make a big difference to me.

Ok, I guess that makes sense. Good luck with your new computer!
 
From laptopmag

2016 15" review
"The new MacBook Pro uses the same super-flat butterfly keyboard as the 12-inch MacBook. It feels shallow at first touch but is surprisingly satisfying. The notebook's 0.5-millimeter keys felt snappy, responsive and comfortable, allowing me to zip through the Key Hero typing test at a speedy 97 words per minute (which is about my norm) with only a 2 percent error rate."

2017 15" review
"The MacBook keyboard continues to blow my mind by offering seemingly shallow keys that feel better than any I've used on a notebook. Whether I was cramming away at a Google Doc or firing off a quick email, everything felt wonderfully snappy and comfortable. Despite a short travel of 0.81 millimeters, the keys made it easy for me to blaze through the Key Hero Typing Test at 98 wpm with near-perfect accuracy and zero finger strain."
 
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As I understand it, the 15" has a key travel of ~.8mm while the 13" has a slightly more shallow ~.7mm. Not sure how much of a difference that would make.
 
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So there is a difference between 13" and 15" keyboards as far as travel goes?
I have to say I have grown to love the 15" after typing it a bit. Haven't tried the 13" yet in earnest but will soon.
However I wished it was a bit more quiet. Even if volume is similar to the older keyboard the sound is just more noticeable. Cant explain it more.
 
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