Google Again Criticizes Apple for Not Adopting RCS for Messages App: 'Their Texting is Stuck in the 1990s'

[bostonMAC]

iMessage is going no where anytime soon. What Google is effectively asking Apple to do is to do away with SMS functionality in the Messages app and replace it with RCS. I won't pretend to know the technical details in what that would take to accomplish. RCS messages would still be Green... You can take that to the bank!

The reason why Google wants Apple to implement RCS is because RCS includes a lot of what makes iMessage so popular and would bring the experience of texting someone with an Android phone up to the same level as texting between iPhones.

To give an example right now two people texting on iPhone's can send full resolution photos and videos, bring in a third person on an iPhone and all is good you still get full resolution photos and videos; now bring in a forth person on Android with the dreaded green bubble and now you are no longer sharing full resolution photos and videos. Now if Apple implemented the RCS protocol the group message would switch from iMessage to RCS as opposed to SMS but the experience would remain the same where as with SMS the experience is significantly degraded as a result of bringing the Android users into the group chat.

So in the case where Apple implemented RCS Apple effectively removes the iMessage advantage so unless forced to they won't be implementing RCS. Besides Google is being a bit disingenuous because they are asking Apple to implement their version of RCS which includes some specialized Google "enhancements" and RCS itself still isn't a standard so Google is actually asking Apple to implement RCS with the caveat that specification will change. Then you have the fact that Google despite their campaign calling out Apple for not implementing RCS still hasn't fully implemented it into Android.

 

[OneBar]

The reason why Google wants Apple to implement RCS is because RCS includes a lot of what makes iMessage so popular and would bring the experience of texting someone with an Android phone up to the same level as texting between iPhones.

To give an example right now two people texting on iPhone's can send full resolution photos and videos, bring in a third person on an iPhone and all is good you still get full resolution photos and videos; now bring in a forth person on Android with the dreaded green bubble and now you are no longer sharing full resolution photos and videos. Now if Apple implemented the RCS protocol the group message would switch from iMessage to RCS as opposed to SMS but the experience would remain the same where as with SMS the experience is significantly degraded as a result of bringing the Android users into the group chat.

So in the case where Apple implemented RCS Apple effectively removes the iMessage advantage so unless forced to they won't be implementing RCS. Besides Google is being a bit disingenuous because they are asking Apple to implement their version of RCS which includes some specialized Google "enhancements" and RCS itself still isn't a standard so Google is actually asking Apple to implement RCS with the caveat that specification will change. Then you have the fact that Google despite their campaign calling out Apple for not implementing RCS still hasn't fully implemented it into Android.

Still has nothing to do with Apple. If Apple implemented RCS right now, my brother would still not receive full resolution photos or videos on his Android from my iPhone. Even though we're both on AT&T. They just implemented it in February and only on a limited selection of Android phones. The carrier has to implement it on their end or it matters nothing whether the manufacturer implements it or not.

 

[dk001]

Why would apple participate when iMessage is their golden app?

You'd have to ask them.
I do not know their reason for not wanting to help define a global standard.

 

[I7guy]

You'd have to ask them.
I do not know their reason for not wanting to help define a global standard.

Was a rhetorical question alluding to the fact that iMessage just works well for its intended purpose. But of course ymmv. But based on what I’ve read rcs is anything other than a global standard which is maybe why they aren’t touching it with a 10 foot pole. Now sms is a global standard.

 

[dk001]

And 10 years on and no one is seriously implementing it as a standard protocol. Sounds like Apple called it correctly by not wasting time and money participating in a fruitless venture.

If Google's shell on RCS is the adopted standard, then it's certainly going to fail as they don't have the necessary bandwidth to service the whole world. Because they will want to control it.

Now if you just meant vanilla RCS is the adopted standard, that's another ball of wax and not completely true. AT&T just adopted it this past February and only on certain devices. It's not all devices across the whole service.

My Android runs off of TMo and it supports RCS chat. Use it with couple of my kids (and others) - kids are on AT&T.
Works great but has one drawback - if RCS is active and used to send a text to an iPhone user, they do not see the text at all - not even as SMS/MMS.

 

[bobcomer]

Works great but has one drawback - if RCS is active and used to send a text to an iPhone user, they do not see the text at all - not even as SMS/MMS.

That's troubling. Do they get anything at all -- like a notification of a text, but no text? I have both and android and an iPhone, so I can try, but both are verizon, so I'm not sure it's an equivalent test.

 

[NT1440]

That was more or less my point. Carriers have already paid off implementation of SMS/MMS and are making profit off it. I don't know how but I imagine it'd be the same with RCS, but it's not stable or wide spread enough yet for anyone to bother being the first to implement it across the whole service.

Yup I think we’re on the same page here.

 

[OneBar]

My Android runs off of TMo and it supports RCS chat. Use it with couple of my kids (and others) - kids are on AT&T.
Works great but has one drawback - if RCS is active and used to send a text to an iPhone user, they do not see the text at all - not even as SMS/MMS.

Yeah, that's my point. Bet your kids are using phones less than 6 months old, right? Those are the only ones that AT&T have enabled RCS on. Even if Apple enables RCS on iMessages' end, it won't do anything until the carriers implement it on theirs.

 

[Azathoth123]

And no one has suggested that.

If they suggested implementing Google’s ’encrypted’ fork as a fallback to SMS in iMessage they certainly have. BTW, whi holds the encryption key, it’s kind of important, lol.

Also, Google themselves admit that their RCS implementation is incomplete. From PCMag:

‘Jedrzejowicz (Azatoth123: Jan Jedrzejowicz, head of product for Messages by Google) explained the absent API by saying Google hasn’t fully nailed down the RCS specification. “There is still quite a lot of shifting and changing in the underlying protocol,” he said, citing pending developments like implementing end-to-end encryption for group chats. “It's just a question of maturity.”

He added that Google accepted the need to bring RCS to Google Voice: “We recognize that every messaging app that supports SMS, including Google Voice, should update to RCS, but we don't have any news today."’

Don’t hold your breath.

Apple is not going to send iMessage through a data broker’s servers. Carrier implementation of RCS across providers and devices is spotty at best, so if Apple implemented RCS, which carrier version would it be, they’re apparently not all the same?

Be more specific, which version of carrier RCS do you think Apple should implement as a fallback and why? See post #583 above for an example.

Yeah, that's my point. Bet your kids are using phones less than 6 months old, right? Those are the only ones that AT&T have enabled RCS on. Even if Apple enables RCS on iMessages' end, it won't do anything until the carriers implement it on theirs

RCS is a hot mess not ready for prime time.

 

[dk001]

That's troubling. Do they get anything at all -- like a notification of a text, but no text? I have both and android and an iPhone, so I can try, but both are verizon, so I'm not sure it's an equivalent test.

Nothing.
I had switched my OnePlus to RCS and sent my daughter a text (12 ProMax) and she got none of them.
It is concerning when iMessage doesn't even acknowledge them.

 

[dk001]

Yeah, that's my point. Bet your kids are using phones less than 6 months old, right? Those are the only ones that AT&T have enabled RCS on. Even if Apple enables RCS on iMessages' end, it won't do anything until the carriers implement it on theirs.

Actually no.
OnePlus 9 Pro ATT
Samsung Galaxy Note 10 ATT
iPhone 12 ProMax TMo
iPhone 11 ATT

Mine is a OnePlus 10 Pro TMo

 

[Steve121178]

Say that all you want. Google didn’t invent RCS.
Perhaps if Apple came down from their loft and helped develop a new Global standard? But no ….

It's called WhatsApp as that's what everyone outside the US tends to use.

Yeah, I know it's Facebook owned, but it is the messaging 'standard'.

I held out for as long as I could but ended up having to install it as a necessity.

 

[Azathoth123]

Nothing.
I had switched my OnePlus to RCS and sent my daughter a text (12 ProMax) and she got none of them.
It is concerning when iMessage doesn't even acknowledge them.

Agreed, but this sounds more like a carrier problem than an iMesaage problem. Maybe a settings issue? If you find out more, please let us know.

 

[Azathoth123]

It's called WhatsApp as that's what everyone outside the US tends to use.

Yeah, I know it's Facebook owned, but it is the messaging 'standard'.

I held out for as long as I could but ended up having to install it as a necessity.

Not for me it isn’t, I don’t use services and products provided by data brokers.

This is one reason that Apple fans are Apple fans. No disrespect to the Google and Meta folks on this forum, who seem to outnumber the Apple folks, it’s choice, as the Androids like to say.

 

[Steve121178]

Not for me it isn’t, I don’t use services and products provided by data brokers.

This is one reason that Apple fans are Apple fans. No disrespect to the Google and Meta folks on this forum, who seem to outnumber the Apple folks, it’s choice, as the Androids like to say.

Apple fans can be Apple fans all they like, but here in the UK if you don't have WhatsApp then you are screwed & essentially cut off socially.

 

[JohnnyAppleSeed1]

If they suggested implementing Google’s ’encrypted’ fork as a fallback to SMS in iMessage they certainly have. BTW, whi holds the encryption key, it’s kind of important, lol.

Also, Google themselves admit that their RCS implementation is incomplete. From PCMag:

‘Jedrzejowicz (Azatoth123: Jan Jedrzejowicz, head of product for Messages by Google) explained the absent API by saying Google hasn’t fully nailed down the RCS specification. “There is still quite a lot of shifting and changing in the underlying protocol,” he said, citing pending developments like implementing end-to-end encryption for group chats. “It's just a question of maturity.”

He added that Google accepted the need to bring RCS to Google Voice: “We recognize that every messaging app that supports SMS, including Google Voice, should update to RCS, but we don't have any news today."’

Don’t hold your breath.

Apple is not going to send iMessage through a data broker’s servers. Carrier implementation of RCS across providers and devices is spotty at best, so if Apple implemented RCS, which carrier version would it be, they’re apparently not all the same?

Be more specific, which version of carrier RCS do you think Apple should implement as a fallback and why? See post #583 above for an example.



RCS is a hot mess not ready for prime time.

IIRC Google's RCS (proprietary) is supposed to use the signal protocol, which would mean that you and your conversation partners are holding the key.

 

[dk001]

It's called WhatsApp as that's what everyone outside the US tends to use.

Yeah, I know it's Facebook owned, but it is the messaging 'standard'.

I held out for as long as I could but ended up having to install it as a necessity.

Popular user app.
Don't see carriers adopting it though.

 

[JohnnyAppleSeed1]

If they suggested implementing Google’s ’encrypted’ fork as a fallback to SMS in iMessage they certainly have. BTW, whi holds the encryption key, it’s kind of important, lol.

Also, Google themselves admit that their RCS implementation is incomplete. From PCMag:

‘Jedrzejowicz (Azatoth123: Jan Jedrzejowicz, head of product for Messages by Google) explained the absent API by saying Google hasn’t fully nailed down the RCS specification. “There is still quite a lot of shifting and changing in the underlying protocol,” he said, citing pending developments like implementing end-to-end encryption for group chats. “It's just a question of maturity.”

He added that Google accepted the need to bring RCS to Google Voice: “We recognize that every messaging app that supports SMS, including Google Voice, should update to RCS, but we don't have any news today."’

Don’t hold your breath.

Apple is not going to send iMessage through a data broker’s servers. Carrier implementation of RCS across providers and devices is spotty at best, so if Apple implemented RCS, which carrier version would it be, they’re apparently not all the same?

Be more specific, which version of carrier RCS do you think Apple should implement as a fallback and why? See post #583 above for an example.



RCS is a hot mess not ready for prime time.

I think Apple should adopt the Google RCS AFTER and IF google makes it open source and assuming it uses the signal protocol. They could even spin it as they are implementing a more secure non-imessage fallback. Ironically it would be even more secure than imessage.

 

[dk001]

Agreed, but this sounds more like a carrier problem than an iMesaage problem. Maybe a settings issue? If you find out more, please let us know.

When it originally happened we contacted ATT.
They said it was an iPhone incompatibility. iMessage does not recognize RCS as a valid text form.
Apparently at that time the Carrier does not reformat the message/media

 

[JohnnyAppleSeed1]

If Google is pushing it this hard, it probably isn't private despite the E2EE claim. Well, that or they REALLY no longer want to be green bubbles on iPhones anymore.

I avoid Google when I can these days. I use them for search, but that's about it. I do NOT allow anyone in my house to buy Google products and I care less what anyone says about it. I just don't trust Google with anything.

You shouldn't trust apple either. Big tech is big tech no matter what. Why do you think Icloud does not use E2EE on imessages? Because the three letters told them not to, and like a good little boy apple said ok. Same with facebook products as well, stored encrypted in icloud with your key easily accessible. Its how they can sell you on being "E2EE" but might as well just be plaintext in reality. If anything apple is worse. Who knows what their code looks like, its closed source, unlike AOSP, and open source SMS apps available on android. In a perfect world google should be using the signal protocol on their RCS, open source it, and then deprecate SMS to force apple into adopting, but they are too scared to do it.

 

[Steve121178]

Popular user app.
Don't see carriers adopting it though.

They don't need to adopt it, it's a 3rd party app anyone can install on their phone or computer. Just a shame there's no bloody iPad app!

 

[lartola]

Nothing you said there dispels my assertion that service outside the US is junk. Carriers knowingly place software on your devices to monitor what you're saying but you're ok with that? If the service is free, then you're the product.

You did not understand at all. I never said carriers preinstall the apps, and they don’t. They do, however, include in their service plans unlimited data for use by those specific apps should the users choose to download any of them.

 

[lartola]

Apple fans can be Apple fans all they like, but here in the UK if you don't have WhatsApp then you are screwed & essentially cut off socially.

Likewise in Mexico.

 

[quarkysg]

Just what does a Carrier have to do to swap from SMS to RCS?

Nothing much really ... just setting up a cluster of highly available servers to service the incoming RCS messages from their subscribers and route RCS messages to other carriers in the world ... pretty much what is required for calls and SMSes/MMSes. And the servers has to have capacity to handle loads such as during New Year eves. You know, the usual.

Wonder why carriers are reluctant to do that ... hmmm ...

Just so you know, the carriers claiming to support RCS do not have to do anything other than allow the Google Messages apps to be installed in their Android mobiles they carry. The Messages apps basically just uses Google's server. It's kind of false advertising when a carrier claims to support RCS, when in fact they do not need to do anything.

Google can just release a Google RCS for iOS and be done with it. Wonder why they are not doing it ... hmm ....

IMHO, Google wants everyone using a smart phone in the world to use RCS so that they can collect users' location information in order to make their targeted ads, well more targeted. Whether the messages are encrypted is immaterial (frankly I don't think Google wants to parse users messages), as they know where you are sending receiving your messages from the device IP addresses.

What part of the world?

How does this question factor into the discussion in this thread?

 

[lartola]

They don't need to adopt it, it's a 3rd party app anyone can install on their phone or computer. Just a shame there's no bloody iPad app!

Exactly. And Whatsapp Doesn’t even require a cellular number although that’s how most people use it. I set up whatsapp with a landline phone number a while ago on an iphone that had no SIM card at the time. Works just fine.