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Why can't both pitchers of koolaid be on the table?
Who really wants Apple controlling every little thing? I know some of you would wet your pants for that, but where would the competition to drive innovation be. Are we just going to trust Apple to do what they wish? Is that what corporations do best? You really want to be in a society where Apple controls everything? How can you say that and at the same time talk about another company controlling things?

Hmm, I have an iPhone and with it I access my Gmail and Google Maps and search for information using Google. Seems the iPhone is the "both pitchers of koolaid on the table" device, not the Android device.

It's Google who wants to own the whole enchilada here. Unless Apple has some secret search engine I haven't heard about.

I certainly don't want Apple "controlling every little thing." And I certainly don't want Google "controlling every little thing" either (we all know how Microsoft "controlling every little thing" went for the tech world).

My iPhone bridges the gap.

You really want to be in a society where Apple controls everything? How can you say that and at the same time talk about another company controlling things?

Strawman fail.
 
Agreed. I'm not even sure at what point he started becoming so egotistical and seemingly making new enemies for Apple every month.

Are....you....kidding....me.....

At what point did Steve become egotistical, and call out competitors for having crappier products than he does, and distorting reality to make themselves look better than him?

Uh, ever since started Apple. You clearly don't know a thing about Jobs in his early days. All he did when he was developing the Macintosh was talk about IBM. And all he did prior to iOS was poke fun at Microsoft and Windows (with a little help from Bertrand Serlet). All the Get a Mac commercials were doing that too.

What Steve Jobs do you remember ever being humble? Thats what we all love about him, because he isn't afraid to speak the truth, as upsetting to some people as that might be.
 
Agreed. I'm not even sure at what point he started becoming so egotistical and seemingly making new enemies for Apple every month.

Does it mater how apple makes enemies?

When apple was small, some wanted the company would go away. Same as now.

Google and every one else, geeks and otherwise, should all sing praises to apple for showing them the way to geekdom.

What Would your phone look like today had it not been for the iPhone? Just an example.
 
You know exactly that that tweet is FUD. Pure FUD on behalf of the Android creator.

He missed the most important part: How do you install this on a Droid or most other Android devices? You need to root it just like you do to jailbreak an iPhone.

I’m glad to say, though, that majority of Apple users did NOT fall for this cheap thrill. Ppl who care are majorly from the other semi-open, semi-free Android camp that indeed feel threatened by being called out.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

DavidLeblond said:
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

Oh yay ANOTHER Twitter app!
Twitter is rubbish and I refuse to use it, WTF wants to know what I'm doing all day? I'll tell the 3 or 4 people who need to know in person if they ask...

"Ooooh I'm so important because I'm at ________ with *insert name drop* right now."

Nobody cares... and an app that allows you to post on twitter (probably the most simple bit of coding in the world... if you even call it coding...) I'm surprised that they need more than 1 guy working casually to port it to Android. Just "code" it all in HTML or some other lame scripting language... all it does is clone Twitter anyway.

Give up on Twitter!!! Useless web app made popular by a useless "MacAddict" editor, cum-NYT journo to strip Facebooks WORST feature and turn it into yet another simple website (took 10 minutes to "code") that requires yet another login/password.

Yaaaay... no thanks. Why did Jobs bother stabbing them? They are a bunch of fools who don't need ANY publicity!!

So based on your post you

#1 clearly know nothing about Twitter.
#2 clearly know nothing about software development.

And yet you felt the need to post anyway. Bravo!

Not knowing about Twitter and not liking it are 2 VERY different things. Get over yourself...
 
Does it mater how apple makes enemies?

When apple was small, some wanted the company would go away. Same as now.

Google and every one else, geeks and otherwise, should all sing praises to apple for showing them the way to geekdom.

What Would your phone look like today had it not been for the iPhone? Just an example.

Agreed. Thank you SJ for elegant looking products that "just work!"
 
I love the "Google data mines everything" "Yea, apple does too but not as bad as google"

So I kill you with a bat
Or I kill you with a gun
It doesnt matter how I kill someone it, isnt it still murder?

Bottomline they both use data for their own benefit. AT LEAST google is "open" about it.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.2; en-gb; Dell Streak Build/FRF91) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

mabaker said:
You know exactly that that tweet is FUD. Pure FUD on behalf of the Android creator.

He missed the most important part: How do you install this on a Droid or most other Android devices? You need to root it just like you do to jailbreak an iPhone.

I’m glad to say, though, that majority of Apple users did NOT fall for this cheap thrill. Ppl who care are majorly from the other semi-open, semi-free Android camp that indeed feel threatened by being called out.

You do not need to root to install tweetdeck, nor is it a necessitiy to root to install a custom rom on some devices.

To elaborate: I didn't have to root my Dell Streak to install a Froyo based custom rom. All I needed to do was flash the bootloader to ClockworkMod then install the rom from an "update.zip" on the sd card.
 
Um.....
Its not like TweetDeck is a hardware dependent application.

Something like TweetDeck could run on a watch calculator from 1980.

Now, when you get to GAMES and other REAL applications designed for Android, fragmentation can be a very big problem.

Just look at Windows. Sure Calculator.exe works on every platform but try and pop in a game like Crisis (or whatever is the top end game these days) and you run into a problem.

I can't believe it took 4 pages to get to this comment.
 
I love the "Google data mines everything" "Yea, apple does too but not as bad as google"

So I kill you with a bat
Or I kill you with a gun
It doesnt matter how I kill someone it, isnt it still murder?

Bottomline they both use data for their own benefit. AT LEAST google is "open" about it.

Yeah, but Apple only use the data for good things that benefit all mankind, and they take the trouble of being much more secretive about it so as not to worry those who think paying a premium protects them from consumer profiling. Google are obviously evil, or else they wouldn't be so open about being an advertising company. The cheek of it!
 
Much ado about nothing ...

Steve made a few statements about Google and others, and now those others find they just can't stand not responding. On the 7 inch tablet, Steve is correct. Apple would have delivered a 7 inch model if it made sense to so so.

On Google and Android, who cares? Not me. I will never purchase a Google Android product because I don't trust that Google is not tracking even more information about a user. But for those who hate Apple or just want some other system, more power to you.

Apple is, based on evidence, making the right decisions. iPad specifically was right, and it was right to deliver the iPhone first prior to the iPad. So kudo's to Steve and Apple.

Google, Facebook and even Twitter better be careful in one area, and that's privacy ... just yesterday, we learned of yet another Facebook privacy fiasco. And Google tracks much much more than most of you realize ... not good.

Steve may be firing up a few executives, but Steve said nothing that was inaccurate or untrue, and simply enforced Apple's approach to design and delivery of products that work and very popular.
 
Yeah, but Apple only use the data for good things that benefit all mankind, and they take the trouble of being much more secretive about it so as not to worry those who think paying a premium protects them from consumer profiling. Google are obviously evil, or else they wouldn't be so open about being an advertising company. The cheek of it!

Thank I just confirmed my sarcasm detector is working:D
 
I think the term "open" in JS's case is getting confused with "open source". I don't think this is what he is talking about at all. I think he is referring to "open platform" being the problem.

Take for example, Windows XP. How many of you have gone through the process of purchasing a PC laptop, then proceed to remove malware, browser toolbars, free AOL offers, etc. just to get the thing usable? The OEM's just ruin the machine for the end user.

I think the same applies to cell phone carriers and open platforms such as Android. The cell providers add their own crapware and self-branding, making the experience completely different from one provider to the next.

Apple on the other hand, doesn't allow this on the iPhone (or any Apple product!) There are no AT&T badges on the hardware. There are no AT&T apps or branding forced upon me when I unbox the phone for the first time. Thank you kindly, sir!
 
Are....you....kidding....me.....

At what point did Steve become egotistical, and call out competitors for having crappier products than he does, and distorting reality to make themselves look better than him?

Uh, ever since started Apple. You clearly don't know a thing about Jobs in his early days. All he did when he was developing the Macintosh was talk about IBM. And all he did prior to iOS was poke fun at Microsoft and Windows (with a little help from Bertrand Serlet). All the Get a Mac commercials were doing that too.

What Steve Jobs do you remember ever being humble? Thats what we all love about him, because he isn't afraid to speak the truth, as upsetting to some people as that might be.

The thing is he started vomiting complete BS and nonsense as of 2010. Before he wasn't humble but his words meant something in tech world. Today he's addressing his Barbie Doll fans, aka fanbois, so obviously the language he uses is idiotic with hardly any technical grounds.
 
Amen. I can't believe people are really buying into Google's propaganda. Google. A for-profit corporation. That wants your data so it can push advertising at you. "Open?" Hilarious.

The biggest tech snow job I can recall since Microsoft's "The Freedom To Innovate" astroturfing campaign. "A future we do not want???" Here's a future I don't want: a future where Google is the exclusive gatekeeper of the world's information.

Choose the best device for your needs. But spare us the "Android is open and Google loves me" baloney.

Then I need a taser gun. Where did you say you lived again?

Rubin's response to Jobs is quite possibly the stupidest response I've ever seen.

How about Jobs' response to the iPhone 4 fiasco? Those comments will still be quoted in years.
 
I think the term "open" in JS's case is getting confused with "open source". I don't think this is what he is talking about at all. I think he is referring to "open platform" being the problem.

Take for example, Windows XP. How many of you have gone through the process of purchasing a PC laptop, then proceed to remove malware, browser toolbars, free AOL offers, etc. just to get the thing usable? The OEM's just ruin the machine for the end user.

I think the same applies to cell phone carriers and open platforms such as Android. The cell providers add their own crapware and self-branding, again making the experience completely different from one provider to the next.

Apple on the other hand, doesn't allow this on the iPhone (or any Apple product!) There are no AT&T badges on the iPhone. There are no AT&T apps or branding forced upon me when I unbox the phone for the first time. Thank you kindly, sir!

I agree with a lot of that (and I'm a convert from iPhone to Android). The problem is, and always will be, the carriers. They are basically given a blank canvas on which to draw on, and carriers being carriers they will try to differentiate. Apple obviously made a firm stance with AT&T that they take the iPhone as is or not at all. Even so, I'll still take the Android over the iPhone as there is always an Android device out there that suits me and lets me do what I want with it. I can't do that on the iPhone unless I jailbreak and unlock, and even then it has other limitations inherent in the hardware and OS. Just my opinion of course. But yeah, you've described the definition of openness in Steve Jobs's terms very well.
 
Android might be geek open, but to everyone else it's fragmented by what the cell providers are doing to Android. It's de facto locked down by Verizon, so that the end user is stuck with whatever version Verizon wants them to have, along with all the cruft that Verizon foists upon them. This is not open. Steve's point remains, and the geeks can laugh all they want, but the hundreds of millions of non-geek users are getting tired of "open" that is closed to them by stupid cell providers.

I really don't disagree with your general perspective, but I do have to ask:

How is Verizon locking down Android any different than Apple locking down iOS? My wife has a Droid from Verizon, we haven't rooted it, but its as customizable to her as my stock, non-jb iPhone is to me. Even more so actually.

If your perspective is that the average joe consumer doesn't care about the technically "open" comment, then you have to go to what they DO consider "open." I'd wager than for 99.995% of the non-technical smartphone market, "open" is defined as:

-Can add ringtones
-Can put picture of my dog/wife/gf or all three on the home screen
-Can otherwise 'personalize' the phone with wallpapers, etc.
-Can download applications for it that makes it do, you know, smartphone 'stuff'

If thats the case, then Jobs' comments make no sense to either camp. Other than to create an artificial "point of differentiation" that isn't meaningful to anyone.
 
My "casual" friends who have android don't even know what i would be referring to if i said android is fragmented. People not following tech news don't care about any perceived fragmentation of android.

Yeah, mine wouldn't either. But I do have several friends who have complain often about not being able to upgrade to the latest version of andriod on a phone they just bought but its on another phone that came the week after on a different carrier or in some cases the same one. They may not know what it means but they hate when they have to live with it.
 
Actually, I'd contest this. I'll wager that even on a site like this, only the tiniest percentage has the inclination to modify open source software.
20 years in all aspects of this industry, and I can count the number of people who have any interest in this on one hand.

But if that sliver is Android's target audience, then more power to them. I'll be over here on the side where the money is.

Yeah, YOUR money... and you're giving it to Uncle Steve
 
How is Verizon locking down Android any different than Apple locking down iOS?

I think the point is there is no difference. Which really crushes the whole "Android is open" argument.

Android is quickly becoming a cheap and easy way for carriers to sell their own branded feature phones. And it's only going to get worse. Brace for vAndroid with vOS (Verizon-flavored Android) and vCast App Store with devices running stock with a selection of vApps.

Check back in a year and let's see what's happened.

Yeah, YOUR money... and you're giving it to Uncle Steve

And your giving it to Uncle Eric is better how exactly?

Take for example, Windows XP. How many of you have gone through the process of purchasing a PC laptop, then proceed to remove malware, browser toolbars, free AOL offers, etc. just to get the thing usable? The OEM's just ruin the machine for the end user.

I returned my copy of Windows 7 unopened because I couldn't deal with the onerous licensing terms. I run Windows in a VM on my Mac. I shift back and forth from Fusion to Parallels depending on which version is faster at the time. I may even want to change my mind and install on a BootCamp partition instead. I didn't have the stomach to endure Microsoft's activation/authentication process and the phone call I'd have to make to their customer service department every time I wanted to move my Windows install to a different VM (on the same Mac, mind you).

But hey, Windows is "open," right Microsoft fans?
 
He's right though, as decent as Windows 7 is, it's years too late and still isn't a patch on OS X's latest instalment.

Regarding his other points, about Microsoft's engineer's quitting, etc ... I'm not aware of that. However, under Ballmer's stewardship, Microsoft are in a bit of a free fall and are not the company they were under Gates.

And the shareholders are beginning to get restless and impatient with Ballmer, depending on who you listen to of course.

In my opinion Windows 7 much better than 10.6 - many more features, faster, and more reliable than previous versions - unlike Snow Leopard which almost felt like it could have been a 10.5.x instead of an actual new operating system.

I think it's Apple that has really not done too great of a job lately, neither Leopard or Snow Leopard were that big of an improvement. 10.4, in my opinion, was the last version of OS X that really improved over previous versions - everything after seems like overpriced polishing and cleaning up some code. I'm really hoping 10.7 will turn this around though.
 
LOL, I just knew the tech guys would miss the point, and I never dreamed they would so publicly admit (inadvertently) it so quickly. Oh, they think they were being clever by these responses, but they merely confirm Steve's point.

Yes, sure, if you are a geek, the definition of open expressed in code makes a good point. But Steve wasn't addressing geeks (something that drives MacRumors posters crazy), for whom every device is open (including the iPhone) by their definition of open (as in, can I crack this?)

But the 90% of the smartphone users who are not geeks, in other words the hundreds of millions who wouldn't know code if it kicked them in the butt, these geek responses are meaningless. Geeks all over the Net are laughing at Steve today, but everyone else (90%) understands just what Steve said.

Android might be geek open, but to everyone else it's fragmented by what the cell providers are doing to Android. It's de facto locked down by Verizon, so that the end user is stuck with whatever version Verizon wants them to have, along with all the cruft that Verizon foists upon them. This is not open. Steve's point remains, and the geeks can laugh all they want, but the hundreds of millions of non-geek users are getting tired of "open" that is closed to them by stupid cell providers.

Well said.
 
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