Google and TweetDeck Executives Respond to Jobs' Anti-Android Comments

[rsocal]

It cracks me up that people get all riled up when SJ has a few comments (opinions) and people get so defensive as if Google, Verizon and all the other wanna be iPhones continually have negative things to say about Apple and the products. They're playing catch up to Apple trying to make something even close to the iOS experience and they can't! So when SJ calls it like it is, people whine because it just a big reminder (a slap in the face) of their overall products not close to the quality or experience of Apple's products!!!
BTW thanks SJ for my Apple Stock that keeps going up, it's a beautiful thing!!!

 

[shartypants]

too open

Google's definition of open:
1. mkdir android
2. cd android
3. repo init -u git://android.git.kernel.org/ platform/ manifest.git
4. repo sync
5. <... make all the edits you want here and cook up your own flavor of Android>
6. make

They forgot to mention step 5 that allows companies to just hack their own version of Android out there. This isn't open, its wide-open, with your private parts hanging out!

 

[backinblack875]

Sounds like someone wants their next update rejected..

lol +1

 

[backinblack875]

Tweetdeck better shut it before they magically disappear from the App Store.

another +1 lol

 

[backinblack875]

The more times I hear Jobs open is mouth the more I think he is just like the point hair boss.

Completely clueless on how things really work.

ya, im sure you almost know a clue what you are talking about. Much less if steve does or not.

So what he called a COMPETITION PRODUCT out. its their competition. does no one understand that concept?

 

[deadkennedy]

Seems to me steve never liked getting techical : http://www.youtube.com/user/rmoisescot#p/u/11/D8HLUf9w3_I

Lol, seems to me he's repeating his old lame funnies every second of every minute of every hour of every day...

 

[MisturSrs]

Guise I think you're missing the point. Android is so open source, you only have to root it to do everything you want with it and then hope the phone you bought last week works with the OS update released a day after.

 

[maka]

Open means I can run all shorts of apps without having to crack my device thanks to a lack of censorship. Open means I get to decide if something is good for me or not. I get to decide if I like Flash and want to use it on my device, not Apple.

Choice means I can decide what device to buy from a variety of brands offering different hardware/UI options. And if I feel the need to switch brands, all my apps/data gets ported over painlessly. It also means I can decide for myself what app works better for me.

And who cares if there are 4 or more App Stores? So the developer has to submit the App to more sites to get more exposure, so what? That has always been the case in the computer world and it was perfectly all right... Is this "ONE STORE" model where they get to decide what sells or not leaving no alternative for consumers the one that's screwed up....

I don't know... I do (still) like Apple and in the computer world will stick with it for a long time, but I don't like Apple (or anyone) telling me what I can run or not on my devices. I can decide for myself if an app/game is worthy of my time or not. I don't know what got into them when they decided to start censoring what apps should be allowed to run on their devices, but if they ever start doing this on Mac OS X, I'm sure they're going to start losing customers really fast...

Apple used to be about freedom, about offering an alternative to the dominant Windows world with better software and usability. But developers were free to publish whatever they wanted and the Developer tools were free. Now all that changed when the iPhone came about, and sorry, but as much as I love Apple I can't see that as a good decision...

Steve Jobs attacking Android's Openness is all about justifying this new model in which they decide what's good for the customer. Fragmentation is a consequence of Openness but it's not as bad as he's making it look. And even if it was, a closed platform that forces choices onto the users is not the solution either. That's like killing flies with a cannon (hmmm... is this even an expression in English???)

 

[DavidLeblond]

Not knowing about Twitter and not liking it are 2 VERY different things. Get over yourself...

A friend of mine told me that he hated iPhones because he didn't think it was fair that in order to write apps for the phone you had to be a large corporation. It's fine for him to hate iPhones. But to give a reason based on something that is just plain ignorance?

I just think there is a lot more to Twitter than you seem to think there is. It certainly isn't Facebook statuses, and it certainly isn't a website you "post what you do every day."

EDIT: And it certainly isn't a website you can cobble together in 10 minutes. And you certainly can't write an app with some "HTML and dumb javascript" Well, you can. But it won't do much.

 

[throttlemeister]

LOL, I just knew the tech guys would miss the point, and I never dreamed they would so publicly admit (inadvertently) it so quickly. Oh, they think they were being clever by these responses, but they merely confirm Steve's point.

Yes, sure, if you are a geek, the definition of open expressed in code makes a good point. But Steve wasn't addressing geeks (something that drives MacRumors posters crazy), for whom every device is open (including the iPhone) by their definition of open (as in, can I crack this?)

But the 90% of the smartphone users who are not geeks, in other words the hundreds of millions who wouldn't know code if it kicked them in the butt, these geek responses are meaningless. Geeks all over the Net are laughing at Steve today, but everyone else (90%) understands just what Steve said.

Android might be geek open, but to everyone else it's fragmented by what the cell providers are doing to Android. It's de facto locked down by Verizon, so that the end user is stuck with whatever version Verizon wants them to have, along with all the cruft that Verizon foists upon them. This is not open. Steve's point remains, and the geeks can laugh all they want, but the hundreds of millions of non-geek users are getting tired of "open" that is closed to them by stupid cell providers.

So why does my iphone 4 not allow me to use tethering? They all do the same thing. Phone makers need the providers and the providers need the phone makers. And they will both give the other a blowjob if they get one from the other too.

 

[Frobozz]

LOL, I just knew the tech guys would miss the point, and I never dreamed they would so publicly admit (inadvertently) it so quickly. Oh, they think they were being clever by these responses, but they merely confirm Steve's point.

Android might be geek open, but to everyone else it's fragmented by what the cell providers are doing to Android. It's de facto locked down by Verizon, so that the end user is stuck with whatever version Verizon wants them to have, along with all the cruft that Verizon foists upon them. This is not open. Steve's point remains, and the geeks can laugh all they want, but the hundreds of millions of non-geek users are getting tired of "open" that is closed to them by stupid cell providers.

You couldn't be more correct. Well put.

As someone who designs apps and software for iOS devices, I'm all too aware of the vast trench over which the two sides of this argument can't meet. The geeks don't understand that Steve is talking about UX when he says "open." The geeks, of which Google is the primary cheerleader, love to confuse people by asserting open source software is "open." The implication, of course, is that the UX is better because you don't have arbitrary restrictions placed on it. However, the opposite is true. But you can't blame them, it's the only marketing leverage they have: "we're open and, sometimes, cheaper."

Apple innovates because they can control the hardware and software. We know exactly how awful cellphones were before Apple arrived on the scene. Cellphone provider's operating systems are going to be as good as Cable company DVRs. That is, they will always seem unrefined. Usually, they will contain counterintuitive design decisions that, if the user was truly put first, would never have been made.

The best part? Schmidt confirmed that Google won't be requiring a base-line UX for Android. I don't know if that is because they don't understand the problem, or don't know how to do it well. Or both. It will result in a mountain of mediocre devices that will rely on small teams, in companies that don't have UX as their first priority, designing the UI. Move to another "Android" device and only certain aspects will be familiar to you.

Steve is really, really correct on this one.

 

[Kan-O-Z]

Fragmentation also refers to an integrated ecosystem. People here are just referring to apps. What about when it comes to music, movies, books, podcasts, etc. How easy is it to do all of this on a Android phone. Can you rent a movie and watch it on a plane (maybe perhaps from a Netflix type app?). Can you download music from the biggest online music store in the world that is integrated right into your phone? Maybe you can buy music from Amazon or something and then put it into your music management system in the Android phone...or use some app I am not aware of? The point is that ANYONE can EASILY do all of this on a iPhone.

Now what if you are a big iTunes user and have a huge library of music. How easily does that come over to your Android phone? Now what if you want to integrate all the photos and movies you have on your computer....how easily does that come over to your phone?

Of course if you don't like Apples ecosystem then you will definitely go with Android...but be prepared to swim hard upstream for every little thing you want to accomplish. If you do like Apple's ecosystem then you are plugged in! What's on my phone is on my mac is on my TV is on my iPod is on the cloud and vice versa! Everything is at your fingertips and built right in! It's a cake walk and even your mom can do it. Try that on an Adroid!

I am a software developer and when I come home I just want things to work very easily. If you plug into Apple's ecosystem, everything is just so sweet and easy and stable and pretty.

I hope you guys are starting to get the picture of what it means to be integrated v. fragmented....it's not just apps and code development. Control is both good and bad....and most people always point out the bad. Control is bad when it's overdone and consumers really lose out on any freedom. Control is very good if it is balanced to prevent bad behavior but still allows for freedom at the same time...it works in products just like it works in government!

 

[Compile 'em all]

Open means I can run all shorts of apps without having to crack my device thanks to a lack of censorship. Open means I get to decide if something is good for me or not. I get to decide if I like Flash and want to use it on my device, not Apple.

Choice means I can decide what device to buy from a variety of brands offering different hardware/UI options. And if I feel the need to switch brands, all my apps/data gets ported over painlessly. It also means I can decide for myself what app works better for me.

And who cares if there are 4 or more App Stores? So the developer has to submit the App to more sites to get more exposure, so what? That has always been the case in the computer world and it was perfectly all right... Is this "ONE STORE" model where they get to decide what sells or not leaving no alternative for consumers the one that's screwed up....

AHAHAHAHAHA.

Do you understand what a customer wants? A customer doesn't want choice. A customer doesn't purchase a product because he wants choice. A customer purchases a product because HE WANTS TO USE IT. Do you understand that? PEOPLE IN THE REAL WORLD don't care about anything else. All this "Apple decides" and "More choices" doesn't matter to the end user.

They don't give a ratsass who runs Apple or Google or what either companies are trying to "achieve". They want something simple and easy to use. They want to download a game or an app. Not "think" where to look or spend time "creating accounts" in every store.

99.9% of all world nerds will never ever EVER understand how Apple works because both have fundamentally different views of what a consumer wants from a product. The nerds think THEY are the consumer. Apple thinks otherwise.

 

[c0ff]

The carriers are ruining Android

Carrier do not want to turn into faceless PC-builders.

 

[dgree03]

AHAHAHAHAHA.

Do you understand what a customer wants? A customer doesn't want choice. A customer doesn't purchase a product because he wants choice. A customer purchases a product because HE WANTS TO USE IT. Do you understand that? PEOPLE IN THE REAL WORLD don't care about anything else. All this "Apple decides" and "More choices" doesn't matter to the end user.

They don't give a ratsass who runs Apple or Google or what either companies are trying to "achieve". They want something simple and easy to use. They want to download a game or an app. Not "think" where to look or spend time "creating accounts" in every store.

99.9% of all world nerds will never ever EVER understand how Apple works because both have fundamentally different views of what a consumer wants from a product. The nerds think THEY are the consumer. Apple thinks otherwise.

So people dont like choice huh? Odd..

 

[wirelessmacuser]

Steve did kinda go crazy on that earnings call.

Yes he did. The older he gets, the more childish he acts.

In what could and should have been a great celebratory occasion, SJ allowed his fear and anger to turn a happy moment into an acrimonious rant. A toxic attack on those he fears.

Making a spectacle of himself, he seemed small and afraid. What a perfect example of how a CEO should _not_ behave.

Very revealing.

 

[Whaditis]

Here in Canada it's all over the news. This makes Jobs come off as somewhat childish. Canadian news were negative on Steve Jobs especially on how he went after RIM. Not very becoming of a CEO of his stature.

 

[xIGmanIx]

i agree, it seems petty to degrade a pretty impressive earnings call with your self-absorbed ego and childish behavior. If the CEO of my company did that (fortune 500) i would be embarrassed. I have said it before, what makes him good makes him a fool and a rich one at that

Yes he did. The older he gets, the more childish he acts.

In what could and should have been a great celebratory occasion, SJ allowed his fear and anger to turn a happy moment into an acrimonious rant. A toxic attack on those he fears.

Making a spectacle of himself, he seemed small and afraid. What a perfect example of how a CEO should _not_ behave.

Very revealing.

absolute nonesense, if you can copy/paste a file to flash drive you can get files onto android, stop with the BS

Fragmentation also refers to an integrated ecosystem. People here are just referring to apps. What about when it comes to music, movies, books, podcasts, etc. How easy is it to do all of this on a Android phone. Can you rent a movie and watch it on a plane (maybe perhaps from a Netflix type app?). Can you download music from the biggest online music store in the world that is integrated right into your phone? Maybe you can buy music from Amazon or something and then put it into your music management system in the Android phone...or use some app I am not aware of? The point is that ANYONE can EASILY do all of this on a iPhone.

Now what if you are a big iTunes user and have a huge library of music. How easily does that come over to your Android phone? Now what if you want to integrate all the photos and movies you have on your computer....how easily does that come over to your phone?

Of course if you don't like Apples ecosystem then you will definitely go with Android...but be prepared to swim hard upstream for every little thing you want to accomplish. If you do like Apple's ecosystem then you are plugged in! What's on my phone is on my mac is on my TV is on my iPod is on the cloud and vice versa! Everything is at your fingertips and built right in! It's a cake walk and even your mom can do it. Try that on an Adroid!

I am a software developer and when I come home I just want things to work very easily. If you plug into Apple's ecosystem, everything is just so sweet and easy and stable and pretty.

I hope you guys are starting to get the picture of what it means to be integrated v. fragmented....it's not just apps and code development. Control is both good and bad....and most people always point out the bad. Control is bad when it's overdone and consumers really lose out on any freedom. Control is very good if it is balanced to prevent bad behavior but still allows for freedom at the same time...it works in products just like it works in government!

 

[DavidLeblond]

i agree, it seems petty to degrade a pretty impressive earnings call with your self-absorbed ego and childish behavior. If the CEO of my company did that (fortune 500) i would be embarrassed. I have said it before, what makes him good makes him a fool and a rich one at that

Meh, Steve Jobs, Larry Page, Steve Ballmer... they're all crazy. When you get up that high you don't have to ask permission to say stuff, so no one gets to shut you up before you speak.

 

[LagunaSol]

Canadian news were negative on Steve Jobs especially on how he went after RIM.

So now you can't criticize a company's products without indirectly insulting the entire country that company resides in? What???

There have been articles critical of RIM's recent products all over the Web the past many months. Where's the Canadian outrage?

I guess Steve also insulted Americans because he disparaged Google. Oh wait, Apple is an American company too. *head explodes*

 

[skeep5]

HTC tablet PC shipments may delay, says paper

Apple Daily, October 19; Joseph Tsai, DIGITIMES [Tuesday 19 October 2010]

High Tech Computer (HTC) is expected to delay the launch of its tablet PC from the original schedule of the fourth quarter of 2010 to the second quarter of 2011 as Google has turned its support priority for Android 3.0 (Gingerbread) to Motorola, and LG will receive the priority for Android 3.5 (Honeycomb), according to a Chinese-language Apple Daily report citing an analyst from JPMorgan.

Although HTC is also facing issues such as patent lawsuits, bugs in its Windows Phone 7-based smartphones and component shortages, the analyst believes HTC should be able to resolve all the problems gradually, added the paper.

Funny. Everyone's got problems, but at least the iPhone is the coolest.

 

[xIGmanIx]

classic!! agreed though and to be honest, all CEO's have to have some sort of ego, power trip or else many wouldn't get to that position.

Meh, Steve Jobs, Larry Page, Steve Ballmer... they're all crazy. When you get up that high you don't have to ask permission to say stuff, so no one gets to shut you up before you speak.

 

[mdatwood]

Android might be geek open, but to everyone else it's fragmented by what the cell providers are doing to Android. It's de facto locked down by Verizon, so that the end user is stuck with whatever version Verizon wants them to have, along with all the cruft that Verizon foists upon them. This is not open. Steve's point remains, and the geeks can laugh all they want, but the hundreds of millions of non-geek users are getting tired of "open" that is closed to them by stupid cell providers.

Exactly! Android is 'open' to the carriers. The end users see very little if any of Androids openness without basically going through a similar jailbreak process. Just look at how VZW has put on unremovable crapware on Android phones. Look at how when a new Android version comes out users have to wait for each manufactures to bolt their custom UI back on. IMHO, this is no more open than the iPhone.

The iPhones closeness has had good and bad parts. The bad part is that a few apps have been left out of the app store. I have criticized Apple numerous times for this (particularly for GV), and it seems they have finally allowed many of the apps I missed. The good part is that Apple can keep carriers off of the phone. I don't want a VZW branded blockbuster app that I cannot remove on my phone. I don't want the carrier to remove standard features and then try to charge me to get them back (VZW has been notorious for this in the past).

 

[Kan-O-Z]

absolute nonesense, if you can copy/paste a file to flash drive you can get files onto android, stop with the BS

I don't think you get what I am trying to say. I am talking about integration with large data systems (iTunes - Songs, Movies, Apps, Books) and multiple devices (handset, TV, Computer, Cloud). The Apple ecosystem seamlessly ties all of this together. The ease with which I can click on an iMovie on my mac and it instantly transfers to my iphone is like nothing else in the computer/phone world. All my data is seamless everywhere on every device. If I buy a song on iTunes, it will be on all of my devices including my TV.

I'm not saying this all can't be done on Android. Anything can be done. I mean you could load Linux on your Android and develop a new OS and not have a GUI. The point is do you want to spend all weekend doing something that can be done in one click? Maybe geeks like to do this on the weekends but most of us have better things to do. On top of that, some of these things are pretty much impossible to do on Android UNLESS you are a geek. Think about the average user. They want things to work seemlessly and easily!

Android is very fragmented from that point of view and will never match Apple in that aspect.

Kan-O-Z

 

[xIGmanIx]

to each his own, again i think your making broad assumptions, but personally i would like options as opposed to only one recourse

I don't think you get what I am trying to say. I am talking about integration with large data systems (iTunes - Songs, Movies, Apps, Books) and multiple devices (handset, TV, Computer, Cloud). The Apple ecosystem seamlessly ties all of this together. The ease with which I can click on an iMovie on my mac and it instantly transfers to my iphone is like nothing else in the computer/phone world. All my data is seamless everywhere on every device. If I buy a song on iTunes, it will be on all of my devices including my TV.

I'm not saying this all can't be done on Android. Anything can be done. I mean you could load Linux on your Android and develop a new OS and not have a GUI. The point is do you want to spend all weekend doing something that can be done in one click? Maybe geeks like to do this on the weekends but most of us have better things to do. On top of that, some of these things are pretty much impossible to do on Android UNLESS you are a geek. Think about the average user. They want things to work seemlessly and easily!

Android is very fragmented from that point of view and will never match Apple in that aspect.

Kan-O-Z