Google and TweetDeck Executives Respond to Jobs' Anti-Android Comments

[myoldwatermill]

Do you have any statistics on that? Android seems to be selling well to the masses so i just want to get an idea who you are referring to as "majority of users".

I think you might be taking it the wrong way.

I am young, would classify myself a power user when it comes to tech... And I see how android being open might be a problem in the near future.

The unification of ios (and osx) makes it easier for the mass in the long run, the simplicity of it... Never having to deal with common day to day computing issues that windows and possibly what android might have later on.

At the end of this period of tech, will android be open... But a pain to deal with, that only really savvy users will be able to handle? Possibiliy. But that won't ever happen with ios and future macs, because of the unification and control that apple uses to ensure easier and more accessible tech.


Plus if you want open, just jailbreak your ios device. Most jailbreaks are single step process now. The ios platform is as open as you want it to be.

 

[Boston007]

u* yours Google, Sc**w All Androind Devices

for life

Does anything else need to be said, seriously? LOL

 

[NebulaClash]

Open is not just about modifying source code. There are a lot of benefits to OSS that doesn't require you to be able to modify source code.

Agreed, and I'm a very big fan of free software. But my point is that most users haven't a clue about open source, wouldn't know the first thing about taking advantage of Android's openness, and that the cell providers are locking up Android every chance they get.

Google tried to do a very good thing with their Nexus, but the cell providers hated it and wouldn't cooperate. Now they have Google right where they want it. The cell providers can mooch the Android code for free, add their cruft, lock their customers down, and that's not open in any sense of the word for the average consumer.

Android was a good idea that the cell providers are ruining.

 

[macsmurf]

Definitely agree with that. I work with someone who's on Sprint, because of where they live [AT&T service is spotty]. He himself said "I wanted an iPhone, but since Sprint doesn't have it yet, I ended up getting an Android device". That isn't to say it's a bad phone, but he clearly bought it out of necessity; not because it was better than the iPhone...

...So you're saying Apple should open up to other carriers?

 

[sciwizam]

Those 2 TweetDeck programmers must be geniuses, I mean they made piece of software that works on 200+ devices! Steve only wishes he had that kind of talent.

 

[gatearray]

...

I think ultimately, the eventual bigger user base will make developers look past any fragmentation issues they may have in order to make more money.

Its a case by case basis really...can't say it one way or the other. Some people have had a really hard time developing an android app, some haven't. Hell if anything, shouldn't we be seeing developers going to WebOS to develop since its so easy with even less fragmentation than iOS?

Yeah, but at the end of the day, where the money is is where developers will go.

Yes, but even now the claim can be made that there are more Android OS devices in use than iOS. Is there more money for developers on Android? Not by a long shot.

The thing is, most people buying the Andorid phones couldn't care less about apps for their phone. They bought it because it was cheap, looked real fancy, and "it's almost just like an iPhone."

It seems to me, for the vast majority, their new smartphone is "good enough" and the price was right, possibly even buy one get one free. There's no allegiance to Android OS by the masses— stuff like that only exists in these tech forums we read online. It's easy to forget this plain and simple fact sometimes.

Now, users of the Apple ecosystem and iOS by proxy, that's a different story...

 

[samcraig]

Maybe. This is corporate communication, and that means shading what you say based on the audience. So privately they whine to Steve about the headache that is Android, but when this becomes public knowledge their lawyers tell them to "fix this immediately." Thus they play nice to Android now. This could easily explain the discrepancy instead of Steve is a liar or made a mistake or whatever.

You are amazing. Truly. Complete fabrication based on what - your fantasy of how it went down?

Steve isn't perfect. Apple isn't perfect. Get used to it.

 

[lincolntran]

android will eventually turn out like windows... there is no possible way that the developers will be able to test all the different combos of hardware and software versions that are going to be floating around.

They had to test over 200 different device configurations for tweet deck now just think of how many combos they will have to test in a year or two.

You are under the assumption that they do test their code.

 

[BC2009]

Maybe. This is corporate communication, and that means shading what you say based on the audience. So privately they whine to Steve about the headache that is Android, but when this becomes public knowledge their lawyers tell them to "fix this immediately." Thus they play nice to Android now. This could easily explain the discrepancy instead of Steve is a liar or made a mistake or whatever.

C'mon.... what's Google going to do? Reject TweetDeck from their "open" Android marketplace? You heard Steve Jobs, TweetDeck could just sell their app on one of the 4 Android marketplaces set to open next year (including Amazon's). How's that for fragmented?

Not sure I got Steve's comment here though about multiple app stores -- don't we like having multiple places to shop for the same thing if those places are competing in prices? Amazon could even cut a deal with developers to get their Android apps a week ahead of Google and sell them at a discounted price. Heck.... I hear there are a couple of other App Stores for iOS as well, but I may need to jailbreak for those. Maybe Amazon should acquire Cydia?

 

[Žalgiris]

Hilarious. You act like Apple isn't trying to do the same thing with your data google is! Hello!!! Apple is a corp. that is just as power and money hungry as the next one.

Hello. I know i wasn't born yesterday, but please, it's on very different level.

 

[Hastings101]

After reading through these comments, I can safely say that I now believe 100% that the phrase "it just works" or anything similar to it, should just disappear off the face of the Earth.

 

[LagunaSol]

Definitely agree with that. I work with someone who's on Sprint, because of where they live [AT&T service is spotty]. He himself said "I wanted an iPhone, but since Sprint doesn't have it yet, I ended up getting an Android device". That isn't to say it's a bad phone, but he clearly bought it out of necessity; not because it was better than the iPhone...

I recently compared my iPhone 4 with my brother's and brother-in-law's EVOs. They were anticipating quite the brag fest. In the end they conceded they wish the iPhone was available on Sprint and Verizon so they could get one. I'm sure this is quite common. Most consumers don't care about Android's customization and faux "openness" as much as the diehard Fandroids want you to believe.

It's astounding their amount of bravado regarding sales numbers when the iPhone is available on a single U.S. carrier vs. four for Android (not to mention the ubiquitous BOGO deals that inflate Android's numbers). Not a good sign for Android in my opinion.

 

[GroundLoop]

Not really. Games are good examples. There are numerous graphic cards out there. This is resolved by auto detecting, demos, and posting minimum requirements.

And how many applications currently have CUDA support? Some...but not many. Most developers will not spend the time implementing features that can only be experienced on a subset of a subset of a subset of a market.

Fragmentation does exist and just because a particular flavor of Android or iOS has a killer feature, doesn't mean that it'll ever be used in real life.

iOS (and MAC OS X to an extent) tries to minimize this by offering fewer variants than other platforms (Android/Windows). I don't agree or disagree with either approach, but developers typically prefer to test on fewer variants due to cost and schedule.

GL

 

[NebulaClash]

The unification of ios (and osx) makes it easier for the mass in the long run, the simplicity of it... Never having to deal with common day to day computing issues that windows and possibly what android might have later on.

At the end of this period of tech, will android be open... But a pain to deal with, that only really savvy users will be able to handle? Possibiliy. But that won't ever happen with ios and future macs, because of the unification and control that apple uses to ensure easier and more accessible tech.

You make a good point, and one that just gelled in my mind a new thought. This iOS vs Android fight is merely the old Windows vs Linux fight brought up to date. The one thing that was good about Windows was its uniformness. Everyone knew what to do with it and how it worked. But the Linux guys pushed openness and technical goodness and just couldn't understand why 95% of the market ignored them. Simple: most people do not want to mess with code or configurations, they just want something that works, even if it's mediocre like Windows.

The analogy isn't perfect because there is no price advantage between iOS devices and Android devices the way there was between Windows and Linux. And iOS is very slick with none of the cruft of Windows. But sure enough, here is iOS with a unified, consistent front, and there is Android fragmenting just like Linux.

 

[Žalgiris]

You are amazing. Truly. Complete fabrication based on what - your fantasy of how it went down?

Steve isn't perfect. Apple isn't perfect. Get used to it.

You are amazing. Truly. Complete fabrication based on what - your fantasy of how it went down?

Google isn't open. Android isn't open. Get used to it.

 

[ikir]

My "casual" friends who have android don't even know what i would be referring to if i said android is fragmented. People not following tech news don't care about any perceived fragmentation of android.

But he will cry when application will not run on x device running y version of Android. I have 2 friends having Android and in my family we have a lg android based phones. we all agree (me and my friends) that they sucks hard, indeed they are planning to buy an iPhone in the future. Most app crash, don't install and doesn't work as intended because of fragmentation.

 

[NebulaClash]

You are amazing. Truly. Complete fabrication based on what - your fantasy of how it went down?

Steve isn't perfect. Apple isn't perfect. Get used to it.

I based it on what Steve said. He got that information from someone, and I know how corporate communication works where you say one thing privately and the opposite publicly. So while I don't know that's the case here, it does fit the facts nicely.

 

[starnyc]

140 character posts on Twitter are the lowest common denominator on the Web and Twitter clients are very very very easy to make. Different screen sizes really won't affect the layout because you can just make it stretchy and there is a margin of error - the tweet can just line break over another line if it needs to stretch vertically. For other more complex apps with tight layout requirements, the different screen sizes, etc. are a real big problem.

Tweetdeck says it is simple, but still, as a developer, do you really want to manage a 37,000 user beta program on 200+ handsets? Anyone who calls this simple is telling a whopping lie.

 

[louis Fashion]

Point Hair your Bases

The more times I hear Jobs open is mouth the more I think he is just like the point hair boss.

Completely clueless on how things really work.

That would be Pointy Hair Boss. Nicht war?

 

[notjustjay]

Apple is not an information gatekeeper. They are a device seller.

You can always walk away from an Apple device if you so choose. Good luck walking away from Google five years from now.

True, but Apple is heading in that direction, isn't it?

Apple wants everyone to be buying their music, videos, movies, e-books, and apps from the iTunes store. Sharing that information with each other via Ping. That's a lot of information to mine. Plus they're trying to lord that power over the studios to get them to control pricing and title availability. Isn't that why some studios are holding out and/or intentionally giving better prices to other players? Because they're afraid of what might happen if Apple gets too much control?

MobileMe is supposed to be an equivalent to many of Google's services: contacts, calendars, emails, website hosting. There's been lots of rumors about iWorks in the cloud, storage in the cloud, Apple's new data centers.

All apps for the iDevice platform must be screened and can be censored. Appe decides if you, as a developer, get to play or not.

I'm not saying any of this is a good or bad thing, just that the advantage of having the unified ecosystem can also be the disadvantage.

 

[WeegieMac]

Jobs was spot on.

Of course Android is fragmented.

Is the OS on numerous devices? Yes.

Does the OS have numerous propriatory U.I depending on manufacturer? Yes.

Does Android have more than one Marketplace, run by various manufacturers? Yes, according to reports.

Too many handsets. Too many U.I. It's fragmented in every sense of the word.

Android fans are quick enough to try and stick their boot in when it suits their own agenda, but when Jobs gives factual information they spit the dummy and claim B.S.

He's hit a nerve because he's right.

 

[DougB541]

Exactly. They are forced to develop for the least common denominator. This leaves exciting potential features unimplemented so that the software can work on the broadest set of hardware.

Innovation goes out the window.



GL

If you took a look in the android market, there are many android 2.1 only apps and 2.2 only apps have been coming out of Google themselves.


I dont' think this is the case. plus the last poll was that 2.1 android is now the most used version of android. Far from the least common denominator.

 

[nefan65]

...So you're saying Apple should open up to other carriers?

I'd love it if they did. So as long as it stayed the same; meaning no Sprint add-on crap, or Verizon Red junk, etc.

 

[DavidLeblond]

Geez, guys... this is more heated then a Windows vs Mac debate.

My take on things:

Clearly Google and Apple have different definitions of the word "open." This is all. Personally, I have no desire to hack a kernel so I don't care.

Both Apple and Android have fragmentation. I would argue that Android is worse, but Apple's is certainly a pain in the ass. I speak from experience there. And to the person who said you don't need to test on all devices... you're absolutely right. But don't expect it to RUN perfectly on a device you haven't tested. A good example of this is the Android software keyboard. Google themselves has said due to the different touch screens used by all the different handset companies, the keyboard will never be as good as it can be. Yes I know you can download more keyboards for Android, I'm just using this as an example.

I think the fundamental difference between iPhone and Android is the lengths you can customize Android vs the lengths Apple goes to lock stuff down on the iPhone... but I think both have their merits. Steve Jobs has a very narrow vision of what he wants in a device. He is basically making his device, people can like it or not. Is that bad? It could be. But as a software developer, if I included everything everyone wanted in a software package it would become a bloated mess that would get to be so cumbersome to use just because it has 1000 added features that would be used by the 1000 people that wanted them.

I'm not saying customization is a bad thing. I don't use the stocks app on my iPhone. I'd love to get rid of it. But I can see both sides. Guess what? Neither one is right, neither one is wrong. Windows and Mac coexist. So can iPhone and Android.

 

[DougB541]

But he will cry when application will not tun on x device running y version of Android. I have 2 friends having Android and in my family we have a lg android based phones. we all agree (me and my friends) that they sucks hard, indeed they are planning to buy an iPhone in the future. Most app crash, don't install and doesn't work as intended because of fragmentation.

No one forced them to buy a crappy android device. If they can spend $200 on an iPhone they can buy a top tier android device.

Have never had an application issue on my Evo.